[robsrt]

Heads up = Pro Tree
Bracket racing = Sportsman Tree

 

[PowerWagon896]

There was some debate over the weekend at ATCO over Protree VS Sportsman. There were some that felt that Sportsman tree would have been better off and Protree should be left for the PRO's.

There is several merits from both sides. It is just my opinion that the Protree used at ATCO was an equalizer. In fact I sat there and watched and the variance in the timing was so great for a while I could have sworn it was manual. What did that do... kept us racers on the edge and did not give us an advantage of anticipation.

*well for the most part seems Wendy and Eric had some kind of mind melt with the lights as they were consistently cutting low reaction times.

Use of the Sportmans tree and I believe that big time racers would have an advantage of your once in awhile weekend racers.

Keep the Pro tree for all heads up classes, Sportman for bracket or index.

Why not make this a poll?

 

[PowerWagon896]

I'll tree'em and hope I don't see'em! Well I cut a .041 light and was on my way but then got a big eye full of his rear quarter panel at the end! :mrgreen:

I hate it when that happens!

I usually put a dent in the floor pan under the "loud pedal" when I get in that situation.

 

[CT-MSRT]

love the pro tree. I don't run it often but it is much better than the slow count down of the sportsman.

 

[FlyByU]

I see the side of the Pro Tree proponents and agree that red lights are more difficult (although I did have one). The issue I have with it is this. Out here in fly over country, we rarely ever/never see a pro tree in our T&T or even in Street/Sportsman events.

Apparently, the northeast group sees a lot of pro tree and have a lot of experience with it. That would seem to give them an advantage over the rest of us. In fact the same argument could be made on the use of indexes.

Frankly, I dislike the use of indexes more than using pro tree unless of course I am the one running less than .10 over an index.

For either issue, if the choice gives a particular group of racers and advantage due to experience, then a question has to raised as to it being appropriate.

Not really true, we only see it at the NMCA event at maple grove and a handful of us see it in Quick X.

This is how it all started. Those that wanted to compete in INDEX and HeadsUp. It sucks having to go back and forth between the two trees. This was our solution, pro tree for everything.

INDEX will be in the points series next year and it will most likely be Pro Tree again.

 

[Carfinish]

Everyone can like what they like.... but the reality is the pro-tree does "equalize" the racing for a group like us...we have cars with times all over the place and variance in experience. You all have heard of deep staging...I believe it means that you roll your car forward enough to shut the pre-stage light off. You could not do that at Atco... you could however roll your car forward a little (without shutting the prestage light) and you will notice that your reaction times will drop a little. If you stage real shallow on a protree a .1xx reaction time is very respectable....roll just a little forward and that.1xx will drop and look like you had an awesome reaction time... Pro-tree almost eliminates the red light factor and makes it a great day of racing. If you redlight on a protree you either rolled the car forward too far and/or were anticipating the yellow lights and left before they actually light. Like Dan said... once people got used to it, they like it.... that is what time trials are for.

 

[Jack SickSRT]

I see the side of the Pro Tree proponents and agree that red lights are more difficult (although I did have one). The issue I have with it is this. Out here in fly over country, we rarely ever/never see a pro tree in our T&T or even in Street/Sportsman events.

Apparently, the northeast group sees a lot of pro tree and have a lot of experience with it. That would seem to give them an advantage over the rest of us. In fact the same argument could be made on the use of indexes.

Frankly, I dislike the use of indexes more than using pro tree unless of course I am the one running less than .10 over an index.

For either issue, if the choice gives a particular group of racers and advantage due to experience, then a question has to raised as to it being appropriate.

As good as you are on a Sportsman Tree; I believe you would have really been upset if we ran that tree when you ran the Faster cars. As Ujokin said The Pro Tree is an equalizer for the slower ET cars. IMO
Have you ever asked your local track for a Pro Tree at a T&T ? Our local track will switch back and forth if we ask.

 

[FlyByU]

Keep the Pro tree for all heads up classes, Sportman for bracket or index.

Why not make this a poll?

Because someone has to make the decision ultimately

 

[Carfinish]

Not really true, we only see it at the NMCA event at maple grove and a handful of us see it in Quick X.
This is how it all started. Those that wanted to compete in INDEX and HeadsUp. It sucks having to go back and forth between the two trees. This was our solution, pro tree for everything.

INDEX will be in the points series next year and it will most likely be Pro Tree again.

that is true the NE has only seen pro-tree at one event per year (NMCA) and it's only been 3 years now... and it is not just the NE crew that race at that event... the VA gang comes to it as well.... and I believe James is one of them :mrgreen:

 

[rtr0id]

Heads up = Pro Tree
Bracket racing = Sportsman Tree

I agree, heads up should be a Pro Tree and a staggered class should be sportsman tree.

I prefer a sportman tree myself :mrgreen:

 

[Token]

Just from observing (which I did a fair bit of in the stands) it appeared as though the Pro Tree slowed things down some.
Guys were more hesitant about lighting the bulbs, and would take quite some time to get staged. Don't see that so much with the Sportsman, because they know they have a little more time to load up the converter, or whatever they have to do before hitting the gas.

With the lines in the staging lanes as long as they were, adding a second or two to the runs adds up to a lot of waiting time.

 

[Charger4Life]

First time ever for me on a pro tree.

Obviously I adapt well. :banana:

 

[done]

As good as you are on a Sportsman Tree; I believe you would have really been upset if we ran that tree when you ran the Faster cars. As Ujokin said The Pro Tree is an equalizer for the slower ET cars. IMO
Have you ever asked your local track for a Pro Tree at a T&T ? Our local track will switch back and forth if we ask.

I actually win more often in the Quick 16 events on the Sportsman Tree where I am one of the slower cars. That being said, I can live with the Pro Tree, but I have more concerns with the Indexes. We just don't run that combination out here so I don't get that much experience with that format.

The gambler's race on Saturday used a Pro Tree with dial ins and I felt I had a chance to win that. I lost in a close race but no regrets. I knew I would not have a chance with the index class based on the weather reports. I know what my car runs at the expected temps on Friday and it did exactly what I expected, 13.25. Since we don't run indexes here, I have no experience in "sand bagging" to a lower time.

This is my opinion. It does not mean I won't play in the sandbox.

 

[ujokin2]

Just from observing (which I did a fair bit of in the stands) it appeared as though the Pro Tree slowed things down some.
Guys were more hesitant about lighting the bulbs, and would take quite some time to get staged. Don't see that so much with the Sportsman, because they know they have a little more time to load up the converter, or whatever they have to do before hitting the gas.

With the lines in the staging lanes as ling as they were, adding a second or two to the runs adds up to a lot of waiting time.

Actually ATCO Protree was a bit LONGER then expected. Normally you have very little time once both lanes have set the second light. Being ATCO was a bit longer... it took the anticipation right out of the picture. To me that slowed it down as well. :mrgreen:

Again normally you have 10 secs once the first bulb is lite to completely stage.

 

[Jack SickSRT]

The gambler's race on Saturday used a Pro Tree with dial ins and I felt I had a chance to win that. I lost in a close race but no regrets. I knew I would not have a chance with the index class based on the weather reports. I know what my car runs at the expected temps on Friday and it did exactly what I expected, 13.25. Since we don't run indexes here, I have no experience in "sand bagging" to a lower time.

This is my opinion. It does not mean I won't play in the sandbox.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on dial ins. Saturday even though Stell Kicked me out due to me cutting a crap tree and running under my time. It was fun flying by him at about 135 mph though :mrgreen:

 

[Bailman]

The ProTree is good...just need more time in front of it. When you started this thread I realized that I never really focused on cutting good reaction times instead it was about PB's. I did OK with it I guess and would do better if I had more time. And yes, the runs seemed to creep along all day long.

 

[FlyByU]

Done, sometimes its not sandbagging, its setting your car up to run a number. If you are a .25, you should add weight or pull timing. But hey, if you think you can lift just perfect, then sandbagging is for you

We all know not everybody is going to be happy, I accept that. Open discussion is good though and I value everyone's opinion. I think the best thing about the Pro Tree was that it gave everyone an equal chance at winning the event in INDEX. A large portion of those racing on Friday were very inexperienced and they did pretty well largely because they werent getting destroyed at the tree. Im about everyone having fun and normally the best drivers with the best cars win anyway.

 

[PaCharger]

I love the pro tree just wish it would have been true autostart not stage wait 3 sec then yellow . I would have prefered it BANG as soon as the last car staged.
A.J.

Very much agree AJ. But - that said, protree is a hoot and I agree with James's premise that it was very much an equalizer. Wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Coopers_Dad]

I only got to make two passes my first ever on a pro tree but I had no problem with it.

After watching almost every pass of the day I think things slowed down because of the courtesy staging. Some people were taking forever to get in.

 

[done]

Done, sometimes its not sandbagging, its setting your car up to run a number. If you are a .25, you should add weight or pull timing. But hey, if you think you can lift just perfect, then sandbagging is for you

We all know not everybody is going to be happy, I accept that. Open discussion is good though and I value everyone's opinion. I think the best thing about the Pro Tree was that it gave everyone an equal chance at winning the event in INDEX. A large portion of those racing on Friday were very inexperienced and they did pretty well largely because they werent getting destroyed at the tree. Im about everyone having fun and normally the best drivers with the best cars win anyway.

Although I agree with your concept that the car could be slowed down, time was at a premium to relearn the pro tree and getting the wheelspin under control. By the time I was comfortable, there was no more time for test runs to play with other stuff. I suppose I could have put grandson John in as a co-pilot and got the times up about right. :wink: