Premature Lifter Failure
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My brother is a mechanic at a Chrysler dealership. One of the other mechanics is working on a police car which has a #3 lifter failure. (I know it is a newer car but I forget which year and engine he told me) It is interesting that it always seems to be #3 or #5 which fail most often.
Actually it's more often #5 and/or #7 intake lifter.
True as my lower end fit right into the wooden pallet that Chrysler constructed to send the Hellcat engine to us to replace the one with the exploded supercharger.
The manufacturers are always redesigning parts without worries of lawsuits. For instance (once again) the case of the driver's side cyl head on the 3.6L Pentastar. They simply realized there was a reoccurring failure of the cyl head. Therefor the issued an extension of warranty on the cyl head and redesigned it from happening again. That begin said the extension warranty only applies to failed cyl heads for a very specific failure. Some cyl heads will experience the failure and others will not. Kinda like premature lifter failures in Gen III Hemi engine, some will experience a failure and some will not!
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I know this is an older thread but I recently got a good deal on a 2010 6.1 with the Hemi tick…. #5 cyl was the culprit with BOTH lifters bad…. I believe the exhaust(3rd from the back?) was toast with the roller flat spotted and the plunger retainer had popped out? The other lifter was still barely operational as it had a ton of play in the needle bearings and the roller had a ton of clearance….. all the rest of the lifters were like new. Engine was just recently rebuilt I was told and I believe it as it’s super clean and no hardly any carbon deposits….. cyl #5 was super clean……. I’m putting in a Comp 220/230 HRT cam/springs and I’m going to measure exact pushrod length and get custom pushrods for extra insurance against failure……. And of course I have new hellcat lifters going in……. I know this info is old but it may help someone…….
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Very nice! It might also be a good idea to replace the oil pump with either the Melling HV (10342HV) or the Hellcat. Too much oil flow in these engines is NEVER a bad thing! Also, I might suggest changing the oil and filter every 500 miles two of three times. Use a real high filtrating filter like a WIX gold/Napa gold. Hopefully it’ll catch any metal bits flowing around the engine.
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The GEN III lifters have gone through two iterations. The current version (which is backwards compatible across all GENIII blocks) has larger needle bearings (13 vs. 18 - over twice the O.D.), slightly less roller and axle cross sectional area to compensate.
There is zero correlation between the latest lifter design and the Hellcat engine. But (sometimes) ridiculous folklore drives some to bragging about the (mis)notion that there is somehow a "Hellcat" part in their build.
There is zero correlation between the latest lifter design and the Hellcat engine. But (sometimes) ridiculous folklore drives some to bragging about the (mis)notion that there is somehow a "Hellcat" part in their build.
Agreed as they most likely are. The strange thing is I never saw any lifter failures, while at Dodge, in any hellcats but saw plenty fail on up to 2019 5.7l & 6.4l engines. So I suspect the oil pump that is in the Hellcats and not the 5,7l or 6.4l, offers better volume/pressure, thus doing a better job at protecting the same lifters!?!
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Not many Hellcats get used as dailies, and driven over 100K miles as much as rest of the engines. Statically trying to compare hellcats to the lifter deal is not a viable argument. Just another hopeful solution and because lifters don't fail in 10K miles after being replaced everyone claims success.
All the failed lifters I have seen while not being 70% blind show no signs of high heat, or metal shearing from lack of lubrication.
Yup your right about everything. None of my first knowledge/DAILY EXPERIENCES with these vehicles/engines could possibly compare to your extensive knowledge of this subject. What again is the automotive dealership or automotive manufacturer that you work for from which you draw all of your extensive knowledge from that so out passes mine or anyone else’s your deem unworthy? How many of these vehicles/engine have YOU worked with/on in a daily context from which you draw this extensive knowledge from? How is that you are so confident that anyone who suggests anything other than what you deem as “correct” is wrong or their assessments? Yearly oil analysis of one engine?
Also, here in south texas, people drive their Hellcats (Challengers, Chargers, GC, Durangos) as daily vehicles as well GT500’s, Corvettes, ZL1’s, Ferraris, Lamborghini, McClarens, etc etc etc! It’s not like when I lived in Denver where all those cars went into storage in September and not seen again until Feb/April of the following year. I’ve seen quite a few hellcat engines in different platforms beyond 70k miles with no failures while at the same time seeing NUMEROUS 6.4l engines with fewer that 36k miles with failed lifters. It’s not like Hellcat engines are some sort of rare engine like a 427sohc engine did Ford only produce 499 of. So you can claim all you want that additional oil supply doesn’t have any positive longevity effects of these lifters but I’ll again take my chances with additional oil on mine and will suggest it to anyone who’s had a lifter failure.
One of the VERY few advantages of working with these engines/vehicles on a daily basis and in this industry is we have contacts at other dealerships as well as the manufacturer, which leads me to say that many Chrysler advisors HAVE seen repeated failures of these lifters even after being replaced.
Lastly one thing I’ve always forgotten to ask is, in your extensive first hand daily knowledge/expertise, you seem to know everything that is NOT the reason for these lifter failures yet you’ve never mention what IS the absolute reason for these failures? Please tell us, and be very specific, to the one reason. Please don’t go into the possible lack of oil changes, possible wrong oil, possible wrong filters, possible low oil, possible washer fluid in the engine oil by accident, possible squirrel ran across the road causing a brake check situation that caused the oil in the oil pan to slosh forward which caused oil starvation of the engine, blah blah blah. It has to be one specific thing! Please enlighten us!!!
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Hey, I fixed my lifters once. You said you did yours what, three times now? And now your engine is broken? Again. Perhaps with all of your claimed experience and contacts we would think you would not have so many issues. Yetbhere we are! Maybe you ought put yourself in that bashing thread?
My car is doing great. with stock oil pump.
And, photos I share, and claim to take are actually from me and not some bull**** story about being blind (yet somehow able to drive and work) or techs phone photos of a photo, once twice removed.
Oh and bucket of lifters.
I see you as a joke who can't even keep stories straight over time.
My car is doing great. with stock oil pump.
And, photos I share, and claim to take are actually from me and not some bull**** story about being blind (yet somehow able to drive and work) or techs phone photos of a photo, once twice removed.
Oh and bucket of lifters.
I see you as a joke who can't even keep stories straight over time.
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Wow, so you replaced some lifters all on your own? Well hell then you must be ready to take your L1? Maybe since yours haven’t failed you should give a course on how to do the job to insure they’ll never fail again?
As far as my lifter woes, its actually the fourth set! Originals, the mopar replacements the aftermarket ones and now the ones from the hellcat with the blown up SC. And not one set did I manufacture! Sh!7 happens in the automotive industry! As far as my current engine woe it has nothing to do with the lifters. It’s a lower end issue and in case you missed it, I DIDNT ASSEMBLE THE LOWER END!
Doesn’t look like a lifter but I could be wrong!?! What do you think?
As far as “bull**** story about being blind”, get bent! Here are the lense perceptions that were used:
I’d this doesn’t meet your requirements of proof I might be able to submit my medical records for your approval. I was basically blind! I couldn’t see the lines on the HW and I could barely read my computer screen unless I was about 3” from it
Also, if you really want to check out my credentials here’s the info for the last dealer I worked at.
Ask for Kara Woods, she’s the service director and I’m sure she can verify my knowledge, “claimed experience and contacts”.
Unfortunately, since firing myself almost 2 years ago, the buckets of lifters are gone and I didn’t take any picz, not that you would believe them. However Kara probably remembers them as she asked me numerous times to get rid of them.
Anyway, what again was the name of that dealership/manufacturer you worked for from which you derive all of your extensive “knowledge”? Oh and what is the DEFINITIVE REASON for the lifter failures? Maybe I missed it?
In all honestly I think you’re a sad little twerp who got picked on and stuffed into lockers in HS! Now you’re trying to do the same thing by picking at others over stupid sh!7, that no really cares about, from a safe distance.
Whatever dude, think what you want! ✌🏻
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Look at yourself, then read that last part. Or the whole thing. Specially rich coming from some one who made a thread bashing other people like you are better.
I will happily be this dweeb.......
Cause at the end of the day, he is smiling cause his car runs.
Where as this guy, with all the King's Man, and all the King's Horse's, Years of experience and contacts up high, Keeps having issues for some odd reason. And just seems upset that regurgitating youtube videos to sound smart isn't working out for him.
Hey, maybe go find some more videos to rip pictures off with a potato for a camera and claim they are yours and one day some one will believe you.
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All of this tripe has become funny.
Happy New Year CE - and everyone else who see's the folly :^)
Stay well...
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Another year right?
I do not have the the definitive answer of a cause, although alot of the physical evidence I have discovered (and not youtube videos) shows issues with both the cam surface, the lifter bearings, and possible valve control.
Reason why I argue with the following:
It's MDS
It's Idle Time
It's the cam so high in the block and not getting crank splash lubrication
It's no flow oil to the lifters
It's not enough oil flow to the lifters
And whatever else clickbait videos come of it, is that they all do not agree with the physical, and statistical data on the failures. They all have had lime light on revenue youtube and none of them are going to save an engine with bad parts. At best, I call these the Hemi Tick Fads. They generate intrest, and money.
Just like the newest idea of hellcat oil pump everything. It's not the fix, cause it does not meet the data as a fix.
It's just a hopeful idea, just like those who:
Removed MDS
Raised the Idle RPM
Installed higher pressure / volume pumps
Installed aftermarket lifters
For majority, lifter failure required 70-110K miles to become an issue. And most of those who did the repair typcially do not keep the car that long or it gets totaled from other stuff before the issue may happen again.
And when you have same engine, having same issues several times with short period perhaps that is a specfic failure on that engine, or maintence of it and not a leading front man for a whole slew of failures than in grand scheme are low compared to non-issue hemis.
And when you claim to be the master idea man behind a photo, of lifters, claiming one of them has your parts in it. When in fact it is far from the truth any amount of respect I may have had is def gone.
I had the failure, and very much was upset. I had went on a limb, bought a car never thought I could and it broke on me. However, 70,000 miles after my repair I went for a drive this foggy morning as tradition as got photos. (always seems foggy around Xmas and NY)
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