[MADDOG11]

I have never been in a situation where an oil filter would bypass oil. I routinely cut my filters open to inspect and never had sludge or debris to cause this. I am try to buy quality products to ensure good filtration. I am so use to working/rebuilding vintage engines with oil filtration that is partial filtering. Still, your argument holds no water as the other lifters have no indications of water or non filtered oil as you call it. If it were that issue everything would have the issue not just one specific area.

You keep citing all these years of knowledge and shop ownership and nasa approved underwear, yet you have not brought anything to the lifter failure table that is new, logical, or seemingly going anywhere. This here will also be my last post involving you. Only an idiot will stump his toe against the rock so many times without either walking around it or moving the rock.

I'm going to find a trail with smarter rocks.

Wait a min! YOU don't know that most modern oil filters are built to bypass in the event they become restricted due to whatever reason thus allowing oil to still flow through the engine? Well then it just can't be then I guess because if you don't know about it, it obviously doesn't exist , RIGHT!?! Besides oil flow to critical engine parts isn't that important, RIGHT!?!

On top of that, then maybe you can explain all of the cam and crank failures I saw while at GM of the 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L that all had pitted lobes but only when oil changes were 10-15k miles apart because customers and all were going by the oil life reminder system?!?

As far as, "bringing nothing new to the table", REALLY? Is that why I was told that the lifters I "have in the bucket are the EXACT same" as the ones I was stating I was gonna pull from the 19 Hellcat engine? Yea there identical other than the larger roller (which is what I said in the first place) and the addition of an oiling hole in the oil groove of the lifter body itself! Other than those 2 differences they're exactly the same.

You have fun with your fingers in your and running in circles while screaming, "la la la la! I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU!" I'm sure that'll serve you well when you grow up. Or maybe you could listen to people who have far more experience, at least with these vehicles/engines, than yourself and deal with them on a daily basis.

I'll bet you'd argue with your cardiothoracic surgeon about what's wrong with your heart citing that your buddies next door neighbors cousins best friend said it was something else and that the surgeon is way off base!?! Then while attempting to walk out of his office you drop to the ground then try to sue him!?!

 

[CE9311]

Wait a min! YOU don't know that most modern oil filters are built to bypass in the event they become restricted due to whatever reason thus allowing oil to still flow through the engine? Well then it just can't be then I guess because if you don't know about it, it obviously doesn't exist , RIGHT!?! Besides oil flow to critical engine parts isn't that important, RIGHT!?!

I said I had never been in a situation where the bypass was used. Didn't said I didn't know about it. Reading comprehension key here. I can cite all the oil changes and various engines and how I have never seen one so messed up to have needed to by bypassed etc etc but it is pointless.

On top of that, then maybe you can explain all of the cam and crank failures I saw while at GM of the 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L that all had pitted lobes but only when oil changes were 10-15k miles apart because customers and all were going by the oil life reminder system?!?

I can't explain anything on GM. I have little to no history on it beyond older small blocks. However this isn't a GM forum so why keep bring it up? Unless GM sneaked in some faulty hemis made by them into our cars to try and undermind Dodges plan on horsepower wars (which would be a good conspiracy theory) what goes on in GM world has a very very small fraction to do with anything here. I am sure if this was a huge issue you would have no problem finding countless threads on forums on it.

As far as, "bringing nothing new to the table", REALLY? Is that why I was told that the lifters I "have in the bucket are the EXACT same" as the ones I was stating I was gonna pull from the 19 Hellcat engine? Yea there identical other than the larger roller (which is what I said in the first place) and the addition of an oiling hole in the oil groove of the lifter body itself! Other than those 2 differences they're exactly the same.

Perhaps this is my fault where I didn't know your car was a 2006. I have not seen many forum reports of Pre-Eagle engines suffering from lifter failures. Now I know you have hard time understanding what I am saying so let me be clear. I am not saying does not happen. But online statistics showcase lifters issues being more of an 10+ issue not 08 and older issue. No surprised lifters have changed. Once again you thought hellcat lifters were different from all others. Been told and shown they are not. Does not matter what they are going in. Super simple fact. Hellcat lifters are only special when inside a Hellcat.

However I've tried several different computers, different browsers and I still do not see photos. Figured all that genius you and your 100 years of techs have could figure out how to post a photo correctly.

You have fun with your fingers in your and running in circles while screaming, "la la la la! I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU!" I'm sure that'll serve you well when you grow up. Or maybe you could listen to people who have far more experience, at least with these vehicles/engines, than yourself and deal with them on a daily basis.

Your calling pot while being kettle here. I have directly responded to every response. Where as you have avoided, and deflected several key points of mine and others.

I'll bet you'd argue with your cardiothoracic surgeon about what's wrong with your heart citing that your buddies next door neighbors cousins best friend said it was something else and that the surgeon is way off base!?! Then while attempting to walk out of his office you drop to the ground then try to sue him!?!

If your going to compare This discussion with the human heart then allow me this retort, You would be the guy who had three heart attacks, does not get the answer he wants from several doctors looking for somebody to sue and trying to get a new heart.

Don't worry though. I still love you despite everything.

 

[MADDOG11]

So wait, you didn't say, "Still make no sense dude. Un filtered oil? Like serious? Oil has no choice but get filtered in a full flow design." back in response #1

And I didn't say, "I'm not saying oil pressure has ANYTHING to do with the windage effect/oil sling of the crank. What I am saying is loss of lubrication due to low pressure, low volume, etc can and will cause damage to bearings." in response #93?

Once again you miss the point I'm attempting to make when I reference GM and other like failures I've seem by other manufacturers. I other words every failure is NOT a unique situation/reason to each manufacturer!

"Once again you thought hellcat lifters were different from all others. Been told and shown they are not. Does not matter what they are going in. Super simple fact. Hellcat lifters are only special when inside a Hellcat."

Wrong AGAIN!!! All I stated was I was getting lifters out of a 7K Hellcat engine with an exploded S/C!

As far as the images and the computer, I never claimed to be a wiz at computers, EVER!!!

Never deflected, just added information, that obviously you either didn't rear and/or comprehend.

As far as your attempted retort on arguing with the doc, you're one to talk. Once again, how much experience do you have dealing with these vehicles and engines on a daily basis? How many failures have you actually put your hands on with these vehicles? I know of other failures in certain vehicles that the manufacturers have admitted to internally but is not public knowledge. For 1 example, the Dana 35 failures!?! Or another the real reason for the older VW 1.8L engine oil consumption!?!

 

[CE9311]

Oh I am not going to go back through so many pages to clarify so many nit picking arguments. I give up. Your 100 years of knowledge and bucket full of lifters have defeated me. Cookie is in the mail.

Now I realize why no one else has responded here.

This is what they are thinking.

Sorry guys. Hope I was at least kinda entertaining. Did at least raise my post count up though!

 

[Hemissary]

Actually that's what I've been doing. I've collected a bucket of failed lifters so far, and continue to do so, along with the copies of their repair orders. I was just coming on here to see if anyone here would be interested in participating (provide RO's, parts invoices, damaged lifters/cam, etc). I don't want someone, who has had a verified lifter/cam failure, to miss out on a possible reimbursement. The next thing I know BOOM!!!

I would like to throw my 2 cents in:

Being a Pro mechanic I think I am entitled? maybe not lol but still I have an opinion on the Failures I seen on the internet. The design itself of the Valve train geometry is Poor! The Lifters are riding at an extreme flat angle and the lifters dont have a Large enough Oil grove in the Lifter to coat the entire bore in there full travel action.

This lifters I removed from 194K mile 5.7 show light scoring on the upper and mid sides from the lifter bore due to a Lack of oil film from being pushed into the sidewall of the lifter bore by the action of the cam.

The Roller Tip damage and Lobe damage I have seen on the internet I believe is caused by the Lack of splash oiling in the engine itself, The 6.1 uses Oil injectors to help cool the pistons this doesn't help the Lifters roller BUT it does Point to the inherant problem that the engine design does suffer from a Lack of splash oiling.
Generally splash oil is relied on in the industry for cam lobe oiling and Piston cooling and lubrication.

I am going to look into the possibility of adding the Spray tubes to the bottom of my piston bores like the 6.1 has, I am also planning on using Crower lifters that have a Larger oil grove for the lifter bore and have also been EDM drilled to oil the Roller tip.
High Performance Hydraulic Roller Lifters Mopar Hemi 5.7L & 6.1L with Edm - Lifters

Another thought was to eliminate the the Oil pan seal Windage tray that acts like a Pan cover to try to allow more oil to splash into the Crank shaft to try to throw more oil around, one more idea that I plan to do is add a Higher pressure and higher volume oil pump to try to increase oil flow pushed out of bearing surfaces.

Generally increasing splash oil is a Bad thing in most any engine let alone a Hi performance engine but in my case I am building a Low RPM engine that will see more low rpm off road miles than Hiway miles increasing splash oiling would be a Good thing Let the Oil control rings do there job.

As far as a Class action lawsuit goes good luck! I remember many of us who Bought a 2006 VW TDI diesels tried and lost, The BRM 1.9 has Bad cam design flaw with extreme cam lobe angles which cause it to eat Cam and liters every 100K miles, Its just a fact of life VW TDI owners live with and just plan to replace the Cam every 100K miles when its time for a Belt change any more.
I tried a expensive Hardened Chrome plated cam in the engine it still ate it!
I have 300K+ miles on it now and I am going on my third cam! The Head is off at machine shop being rebuilt now.
I get 41 mpg with it @ 80mph with the AC going up a 5500' 6% grade without slowing down so I am not complaining much, over all it is still a reliable 100K mile car.

Oh I am not going to go back through so many pages to clarify so many nit picking arguments. I give up. Your 100 years of knowledge and bucket full of lifters have defeated me. Cookie is in the mail.

Now I realize why no one else has responded here.

This is what they are thinking.

Sorry guys. Hope I was at least kinda entertaining. Did at least raise my post count up though!

Nice effort, but there's too much bullsh!t to unpack in the last number of the OP posts; you can't push a rope.

p.s. if you look carefully, dudly and maddog are the same user...

 

[MADDOG11]

Nice effort (there's too much bullsh!t to unpack in the last, but you can't push a rope.

p.s. if you look carefully, dudly and maddog are the same user...

Uh....NEGATIVE on that. I have no clue who dudly is. Sorry.

 

[MADDOG11]

Oh I am not going to go back through so many pages to clarify so many nit picking arguments. I give up. Your 100 years of knowledge and bucket full of lifters have defeated me. Cookie is in the mail.

Now I realize why no one else has responded here.

This is what they are thinking.

Sorry guys. Hope I was at least kinda entertaining. Did at least raise my post count up though!

Is this how you guys argue? Did you guys vote for hitlery, oduma and/or are going to vote for Biten? WTF?

 

[punisher69]

Is this how you guys argue? Did you guys vote for hitlery, oduma and/or are going to vote for Biten? WTF?

Your entire argument IMHO just went out the window. In one post you completely discredited ANY thoughts or opinions you may have expressed.

Valid or not, just by attempting to insult or discredit someone based on their political views you shot yourself in the foot and made yourself look like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum...all in one fell swoop. Good job.

This is coming from a die hard anti- Democrat.

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[MADDOG11]

Your entire argument IMHO just went out the window. In one post you completely discredited ANY thoughts or opinions you may have expressed.

Valid or not, just by attempting to insult or discredit someone based on their political views you shot yourself in the foot and made yourself look like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum...all in one fell swoop. Good job.

This is coming from a die hard anti- Democrat.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

It was a JOKE! Relax! I got the feeling from other texts you nor he were a demoncrat! Just poking! **** if that hurt your feelings you'd never survive in a shop environment. Sorry.

 

[Dudly]

I had to exit this conversation for lack of any accurate information and a Total flame war I thought this web sight would be a Good place I WAS WRONG!

Moderators Please delete my account I wont be coming back going back to SpeedTalk and Yellow Bullet forums.

 

[Myckee]

I had to exit this conversation for lack of any accurate information and a Total flame war I thought this web sight would be a Good place I WAS WRONG!

Moderators Please delete my account I wont be coming back going back to SpeedTalk and Yellow Bullet forums.

Unfortunately the moderators just let this place run wild with a few "know it all's" who troll the forum and belittle and marginalize anyone who has a differing opinion than themselves. This thread is a perfect example where the OP has been harassed and belittled and the moderators don't give a damn. It's too bad, there is a lot of really good information on this forum, and the majority of the people here are great, but a few bad actors really taint the place with an ugly aura.

 

[Hemissary]

Unfortunately the moderators just let this place run wild with a few "know it all's" who troll the forum and belittle and marginalize anyone who has a differing opinion than themselves. This thread is a perfect example where the OP has been harassed and belittled and the moderators don't give a damn. It's too bad, there is a lot of really good information on this forum, and the majority of the people here are great, but a few bad actors really taint the place with an ugly aura.[/QUOTE\]

Always worthwhile to expose lies and get the facts out there for public consumption. Seeing how the Moderators are in on this thread, it appears(!) they agree.

Can't help those who are disgruntled by facts :^)

 

[Renfrick1]

Well I’m no dummy. Ive been on here since 09 and have seen so many cam and lifter gone bad threads, valve seat dropped topics I could puke. If you guys think there’s nothing wrong with the design of our hemis you can stay hidden behind that rock.
Maddog is right and thank you for your fight on this
Simon you’ve brought a lot of knowledge to the board but I’ll bet in real life your an engineer,or have some type of engineer back ground. Your very smart. Am I right??


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[CE9311]

Well I'm no dummy. Ive been on here since 09 and have seen so many cam and lifter gone bad threads, valve seat dropped topics I could puke. If you guys think there's nothing wrong with the design of our hemis you can stay hidden behind that rock.
Maddog is right and thank you for your fight on this
Simon you've brought a lot of knowledge to the board but I'll bet in real life your an engineer,or have some type of engineer back ground. Your very smart. Am I right??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Argument stems from the cause. Everyone knows something is wrong. But you have to everything agree that matches the failure. If there are three data points, and your argument is only supported by one does not mean it is the final say so. That is my whole beef. There is a lot of missing information that we will never get a hold of that could help. I.E. Say wanted to explore casting defect in a specific year range of block production...You would need numbers off couple hundred failed lifter blocks to get a control group to start a statistical fact on it. Same with Lifter being blamed. You would need to be be able to trace the supplier, and use of them through out the several vehicles they were used in.

I do not feel I ever said what is causing it, just argued against what others say cause it without having the actual data across the board to properly prove it.

And if you think new engines rely so heavily on "crank splash Lubrication" then you def have been hiding behind a rock for some time. possibly since the 1940s ish.

And coming on to the thread, offering nothing at all towards a discussion / argument besides calling some "know it alls", and acting like your horse is that much higher, then your def no better than at other garden variety troll. In fact by doing so you are belittling, and marginalizing others yourself. Ain't that funny?

Regardless of my disagreement with some folks here I would rather have them here than some one who does not offer nothing towards the actual topic vs just their personal judgment of the parties involved.

 

[Renfrick1]

Gen 3 Hemi Camshaft Failure Mystery Explained! - YouTube
Here's a video there's a design flaw

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[CE9311]

Gen 3 Hemi Camshaft Failure Mystery Explained! - YouTube
Here's a video there's a design flaw

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Flat Earth PROVEN By Independent Research - YouTube

Here is a video, the earth is flat.

Get the point?

Cause that video already been hashed over. Read the thread. Can not base an "fact" using an older engine with a much newer ones. And he leaves out a lot of details. Not to mention early GEN III are known to not have anywhere the same amount of failed lifters vs the 2009+ Eagle hemis and he is clearly using a Pre Eagle hemi block.

Crank splash lubrication defect argument holds as much water as MDS Lifters being the cause of it argument.

 

[Renfrick1]

Yeah I guess your right
There’s nothing wrong with the design
Your right.
Is that what you wanna hear


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[CE9311]

Yeah I guess your right
There's nothing wrong with the design
Your right.
Is that what you wanna hear

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Keep going back to design issues. How about trying to connect some dots your self? Perhaps if you can not come up with logical ideas that is not based on youtube clickbait monetized channels then you should have never posted in this thread.

Let em question this. If it were a 100% design issue. Then why hasn't every single hemi failed in the same manner withing same miles? Of all the million or so hemis produced, why is the general failure rate statistically low (failed vs in service)

If splash lubrication is so important, then why is my 3.3 designed by dodge, have much more of it's cam covered by the casting than the hemi generally last 200+ miles even with rough ownership? Would you like photos of this? I have a bare block?

 

[Renfrick1]

Your right it’s not a design flaw. Everyone drives there cars the same. So it can’t be. Based on the amount of known cases that we read on the forums and the true amount of failures which we actually don’t no. Your right it’s not a design flaw.
Your right. Your absolutely right. It’s not a design flaw. It’s gotta be something else, just not a design flaw.



Oh and by the way I just spoke with both of my mechanics and they agree. It’s a design flaw they said the worst thing you can do is idle a lot and low rpm driving

But your right it’s Not a design flaw


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[Renfrick1]

I should also add that if it’s not a design flaw it’s the way they designed it. Which may or may not make sense to you.
Being a mechanic my self in a different field I see this every day.
And my statement is
“ if they made something that would last forever( and they could)
How many would they make, and what would happen to there stock price?


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