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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just trying to gauge some interest in a possible class action law suit against Chrysler/Dodge/JEEP for premature lifter failure. This is my 4th set going into this engine and the lifter that fails is ALWAYS the same one. The funny thing is that almost everyone of my customers who have had the same failure is in the exact same location as all of mine!!! I always use 0w-40 full syn, MOPAR filters, always done on or before 5k miles and has never gone low! This has to be something in the realm of a design flaw (ie excessive separation between cam and crank which is causing cam/lifters to be starved of oil at idle, etc). Anyway, anyone else tired of this???
 

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Just trying to gauge some interest in a possible class action law suit against Chrysler/Dodge/JEEP for premature lifter failure. This is my 4th set going into this engine and the lifter that fails is ALWAYS the same one. The funny thing is that almost everyone of my customers who have had the same failure is in the exact same location as all of mine!!! I always use 0w-40 full syn, MOPAR filters, always done on or before 5k miles and has never gone low! This has to be something in the realm of a design flaw (ie excessive separation between cam and crank which is causing cam/lifters to be starved of oil at idle, etc). Anyway, anyone else tired of this???
A lawsuit would be futile; your evidence overwhelmingly points to something other than the lifters being root cause.

Why would you continue to replace lifters - when the evidence (four failures @ #5 hole - continued R&R expecting a different result) very plainly points to something else?
 

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Why would you post this and not provide more details like the Same location.
To be fair, he did. 2nd and 3rd sentences:

This is my 4th set going into this engine and the lifter that fails is ALWAYS the same one. The funny thing is that almost everyone of my customers who have had the same failure is in the exact same location as all of mine!!!
I'm with Simon though.. that points not to a lifter defect but some other root cause. If the lifters were defective we'd see failures in varying locations, IMO.

Richard
 

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Really? Always the same one? This is no indication of the cylinder number or which lifter on that cylinder. Geesh.
Not arguing with you; I thought it was easy enough to follow that "always the same one" indicated the same location is failing each time he replaces the lifters. In his other post ("Lifter stuck in bore") he mentions it's #5 cylinder but not specifically which lifter.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Have They all been the same part number for the lifters?

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All lifters have been replaced in sets of the same parts numbers.

1st set were the originals lasted approx 110k, second set were MOPAR that lasted about 18k miles, 3rd set were aftermarket and cam was replaced with MOPAR and lasted approx 58000 miles. The set going in will be a kit from Crower with will include lifters, cam and pushrods.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
A lawsuit would be futile; your evidence overwhelmingly points to something other than the lifters being root cause.

Why would you continue to replace lifters - when the evidence (four failures @ #5 hole - continued R&R expecting a different result) very plainly points to something else?
Like what? As I stated in my first comment, 90% of my customers that have had lifter failures have the intake lifter fail on the #5 cyl! So whatever it is, it's not just mine or my imagination!

Also, after working in dealership service departments over the last 20 years, I've seen some really crazy things end up with "extensions of warranty" when people scream loud enough! ESPECIALLY Chrysler!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Why would you post this and not provide more details like the Same location.
Sorry, #5 cyl and the intake lifter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To be fair, he did. 2nd and 3rd sentences:

I'm with Simon though.. that points not to a lifter defect but some other root cause. If the lifters were defective we'd see failures in varying locations, IMO.

Richard
OK, I'll bite. Like what???
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks, The famous Cyl #5. I was afraid of that. I have read of this cylinder lifters failures a lot.

On his in particular, is he using the same OE parts or..........
Yup and the original lifter lasted the longest (110k). However the second set were MOPAR replacement with only lasted 18K. Going with a complete kit from Crower this time. Hoping the high volume oil pump I'm installing this time will do the trick.
 

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Yup and the original lifter lasted the longest (110k). However the second set were MOPAR replacement with only lasted 18K. Going with a complete kit from Crower this time. Hoping the high volume oil pump I'm installing this time will do the trick.
With that high of mileage, you can't seriously expect Chrysler to do something. It's well out of warranty, and who knows what had been done to it. Was the block properly cleaned before the new lifters were installed? There's no way to prove anything, so Chrysler will tell you to get lost.

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Like what? As I stated in my first comment, 90% of my customers that have had lifter failures have the intake lifter fail on the #5 cyl! So whatever it is, it's not just mine or my imagination!

Also, after working in dealership service departments over the last 20 years, I've seen some really crazy things end up with "extensions of warranty" when people scream loud enough! ESPECIALLY Chrysler!!!

What is the probability (or odds) of a second lifter, no matter the manufacturer, failing in the same location. What is the probability (or odds) of a 3rd lifter - now out of a total of 48 units - failing in the same location?

The lifters are a manifestation of a root cause...not thee root cause.
 

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Too many unknowns. I have an 06 6.1 with over 260K kms and as far as I know, the engine has never been apart. I don't burn or leak any oil. I have replaced oil pump though as part of timing chain maintenance at 140K kms. Generally, not as many issues with the 6.1 but the issue seems to be more common with the 392. Prolly because less 6.1's out there. In your first post, you mention "almost all" of your clients and then you mention "90% of my customers". What is the actual # of clients you are talking about here? Are we talking 5, 20, 75, 175? What is mileage in each case? Service history of vehicle? oil/filter used? duration between oil changes? Unless you document in detail each instance and the entire service and use background for each vehicle, your submission to FCA is too general for them to consider. If you're serious, you should be able to launch a class action on your own and your lawyers will advertise to acquire info on owners who have experienced the same issue.
 

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I'm with Simon. The chances of the lifter being the actual issue are slim to none, or they'd be failing in other locations.

If your right front tire wears out in 1000 miles while the rest last 20k and you've replace the tire 5 times, is it really the fault of the tire? No, there's another issue causing the tire to wear out faster. Same thing with the lifters


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Too many unknowns. I have an 06 6.1 with over 260K kms and as far as I know, the engine has never been apart. I don't burn or leak any oil. I have replaced oil pump though as part of timing chain maintenance at 140K kms. Generally, not as many issues with the 6.1 but the issue seems to be more common with the 392. Prolly because less 6.1's out there. In your first post, you mention "almost all" of your clients and then you mention "90% of my customers". What is the actual # of clients you are talking about here? Are we talking 5, 20, 75, 175? What is mileage in each case? Service history of vehicle? oil/filter used? duration between oil changes? Unless you document in detail each instance and the entire service and use background for each vehicle, your submission to FCA is too general for them to consider. If you're serious, you should be able to launch a class action on your own and your lawyers will advertise to acquire info on owners who have experienced the same issue.

Agreed; the fact is there are relatively few failures versus just how many (hundreds of thousands of) engines there are out there operating normally. The problem is the Internet has the (very) bad habit of focusing and then magnifying(!) any and all failures - then crossing a baseless empathy bridge into "mass failure" mode and heading down various rabbit holes. The poster child for this is on the RAM forum where people are drinking their own and everyone else's bath water that somehow engine oil is a root cause that has generated thousands(!) of 100% subjective (zero evidence-based) posts.

Anyone who begins reading that thread - just like here - who buys into the rhetoric - begins the needless anxiety / hand-wringing process of needlessly worrying about their perfectly serviceable engine. It serves no one - except those who need to support their own (baseless / subjective) spin cycles (excellent candidate for a
psychological case study of anchoring bias, confirmation / in-group biases, backfire effect).

For the OP; like BryGuy, I too am now curious as to who you are, who your clients are, what "almost all" actually means, what 90% means and the proof to back these statements up.
 
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I agree completely. I've heard about the dropped valve seats in the 5.7 Hemi. I've heard rumors it's caused by overheating, you name it. My Magnum overheated the day I drove it home. I drove it about two hours, I think it topped out at about 240. I have since put almost 30k on it, no issues. I was seriously concerned at first, hearing so the horror stories, but then decided to enjoy my car. If it were to break, I'd deal with it then. I hate how everyone gets so paranoid about something with a very small chance of occuring, and then tries to blame the failure of a 100k+ mile engine on the manufacturer.

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