[Hemissary]

Ya, fun ain't it...

It's certainly a step-up and more challenging than drag racing...to successfully sustain that joy factor for minutes on end :^)

Edit; I actually can get sick if I'm a passenger in a really powerful/sticky road course car, but if I'm behind the wheel I'm fine. Same thing used to happen with aerobatics...

 

[CT-MSRT]

... and when you do all the stuff CT-MSRT is talking about, then you have to look at reinforcing new stuff that the new level of g forces are kinda sorta tearing apart.

:blam:

yea, getting up on 3 wheels or possibly less at one point has directed my attention towards the idea that maybe my car needs to give a little more. I am still trying to straighten out some of aches and pains my car has developed this past season with the chassis. Lots of suspension and lots of tire are not always the answer without a solid frame to start with...

and Simon, i am the same way. I don't always enjoying being a passenger on a truly sorted race car. Driver is np, but 1.5+ G's side to side and dive bombing turn-ins at the end of straights wears me out fast from the seat on the right.

No matter how good or bad i did at the drag strip, i couldn't get it through my head that the faster you went and better you did, the shorter the period of time was that you can stay on the gas. No thanks, I'll skip the trophies and prize money and whatnot for now to waste my money (not this season) on 20-30 minutes at a time. I even have the wife all signed up for a 30 minute Hyperdrive instruction session this summer at Lime Rock Park. The $50 is well worth getting to see her out there in the mag having some fun. Gotta spread the addiction.

 

[Ron380]

Boy- ain't that the truth! anic:

I purposely stayed with street tires and NOT slicks on my Charger, because no one offered good-quality replacements for the front bushings or shocks on an AWD LX car! (This was before BC coilovers were made.) I figured if I left the tires as the "weak link", I would save wear and tear on the front suspension system. (It worked, by the way!)

I also have a rough time as a passenger. I've written here before about my 3-lap limit in the instructor's Corvette. uke: I did go for a ride with an instructor last year in his RX-8, and although I got a bit queasy, I did make it the entire session. Whew!

 

[Hemissary]

Which brings up another couple of points. To stir the fire in those who are reading and have done nothing to your ride, and wanna join in. You don't need anything accept a sound vehicle and the desire...you just drive within the limits of the vehicle and still(!) have way too much fun.

The other point is deliberately leaving some compliance in the vehicle. Things last longer. As most are aware you are not pitted against the other track participants (OK - sometimes). You stay safe, they stay safe, everyone goes home in one piece....except for the dummies who insist on exceeding the track/vehicle limits. If your lucky you get to watch it go down in front of you. The walk/tow of shame is just that. Kinda like the Darwin awards...unless their ego is huge you seldom see them back for more carnage. Anyone notice the higher the price tag the greater the screw-ups :^)

 

[Hemi Family]

When you say a whole season how many track days is that for you? I'll be seeing 8 to 10 days and if these pads can handle that it is a winner.

I've kinda lost track of just how many days I have on the pads...best guess is 8. Laguna and Thunderhill are both very demanding on brakes and they still appear to have 60% - 75% of the pad left.

(2) Willow Springs
(2) Thunderhill
(4) Laguna Seca

 

[MattRobertson]

I saw that Matt fabricated and adapted fan powered cooling system on his front brakes. I understand that the additional airflow, at lower speeds, improves heat dissipation... but what about at higher speeds? Do the fans create a "choke", limiting the amount of "ram effect" air reaching the brakes?

Peak temp measurements on the rotors at Laguna Seca showed the ducts alone were worth about 250 degrees of cooling. Turn the fans on and you get about another 100 degrees. Average speed on that track is around 75, with peaks at about 130 on the front straight, 110 on the back straight and close to 100 in the straight...ish part after T6 when you are going uphill towards T7.

Since temp went down when the fans went in, I think the answer is 'not yet' to the choke point question. I'm not certain its relevant to categorize the question into low speed vs. high speed, as you do both. Especially on that particular track at say T11 where you go down to about 20 to make a 90 degree left onto the front straight where you blast off ... straight into a downhill that heads into a slow hairpin. You get goth low and high speeds.

Doesn't mean that the fans aren't in the way of smooth airflow... I think they do as well as they do in part at least due to the meandering you have to do to route them, which doesn't do any favors to airflow. There's no way to do a straight path without some serious surgery into the fender wells I think. Probably would affect the car's streetability if you did that, too.

Page back a little and you will see MikahB recently had a fantastic idea to keep the fans in play but get them out of the direct airflow. I can't figure out how it'd fit yet.

Finally, is there any advantage in adapting any of these techniques on street driven cars?

I personally doubt it. I don't see any need. Street driving at even the most extreme is well within even stock brakes' capability unless we are talking about RTs. Even an RT has good-sized brakes that probably need nothing more than better pads and slightly better fluid to be ready for the steepest mountain descent. Add stainless lines to that and you have an good poor man's big brake kit.

...

Unless you are the manufacturer of brake pads that can't do their job. In that case blame the brakes none of the other pad mfrs seem to have a problem with .

 

[NYC_SRT8]

I've kinda lost track of just how many days I have on the pads...best guess is 8. Laguna and Thunderhill are both very demanding on brakes and they still appear to have 60% - 75% of the pad left.

(2) Willow Springs
(2) Thunderhill
(4) Laguna Seca

I am sold! When I run out of my current track pads those will be next on the list. What made you decide on ST-43 and not another Raybestos compound?

 

[Cibalo]

the ST-43 is the pad Todd TCE recommended I get before I bought the blue stuff pads from FlyByU (just couldn't pass up a good deal, at the time). after hearing this it will probably be the next pad I buy for the front with some ST38s for the rear

 

[Hemissary]

I am sold! When I run out of my current track pads those will be next on the list. What made you decide on ST-43 and not another Raybestos compound?

so am i; damn

 

[CT-MSRT]

I am sold! When I run out of my current track pads those will be next on the list. What made you decide on ST-43 and not another Raybestos compound?

Last I checked, you had enough blue stuff for the next 5 seasons.

On a side note, I have used the raybestos ST43 and still prefer the initial bite of the carbotech high end pads. I just need to figure out the heat issue. I actually burned of the factory powder coat on my drivers side caliper.

Posted via LXFMobile

 

[NYC_SRT8]

Last I checked, you had enough blue stuff for the next 5 seasons.

On a side note, I have used the raybestos ST43 and still prefer the initial bite of the carbotech high end pads. I just need to figure out the heat issue. I actually burned of the factory powder coat on my drivers side caliper.

Posted via LXFMobile

You are right Mike! I have a boat load of blue stuff. What's best of all is most are of the older(harder) compound.

You used st43 with the Maganum or another car? Carbotech x-16 compound is the hardest they sell. ST43 is there 5th in line at Raybestos. ST47, 45, 44 and 41 are stronger pads and have more initial bite according to Porterfield's website. I wonder how x-16 would compare to st47 or st41.

 

[Hemi Family]

I am sold! When I run out of my current track pads those will be next on the list. What made you decide on ST-43 and not another Raybestos compound?

They were recommended to me by ET1970, after some research I chose to use the 43's front and rear...I almost went with 38's in the rear because I didn't want an overly aggressive brake setup. So far I am very satisfied and they turned out to be stronger than I initially anticipated.

 

[CT-MSRT]

You are right Mike! I have a boat load of blue stuff. What's best of all is most are of the older(harder) compound.

You used st43 with the Maganum or another car? Carbotech x-16 compound is the hardest they sell. ST43 is there 5th in line at Raybestos. ST47, 45, 44 and 41 are stronger pads and have more initial bite according to Porterfield's website. I wonder how x-16 would compare to st47 or st41.

X-16 aint the toughest.

they go up to XP 20 and i think RP2 is the other aggressive compound. A few phone calls to their tech line revealed a lot of product that wasn't offered on their web site. The initial bite when you hit the pedal is the biggest thing you'll notice over EBC pads. Even blues don't have a good initial bite.

 

[JusticePete]

Peak temp measurements on the rotors at Laguna Seca showed the ducts alone were worth about 250 degrees of cooling. Turn the fans on and you get about another 100 degrees. Average speed on that track is around 75, with peaks at about 130 on the front straight, 110 on the back straight and close to 100 in the straight...ish part after T6 when you are going uphill towards T7.

Since temp went down when the fans went in, I think the answer is 'not yet' to the choke point question. I'm not certain its relevant to categorize the question into low speed vs. high speed, as you do both. Especially on that particular track at say T11 where you go down to about 20 to make a 90 degree left onto the front straight where you blast off ... straight into a downhill that heads into a slow hairpin. You get goth low and high speeds.

Doesn't mean that the fans aren't in the way of smooth airflow... I think they do as well as they do in part at least due to the meandering you have to do to route them, which doesn't do any favors to airflow. There's no way to do a straight path without some serious surgery into the fender wells I think. Probably would affect the car's streetability if you did that, too.

Page back a little and you will see MikahB recently had a fantastic idea to keep the fans in play but get them out of the direct airflow. I can't figure out how it'd fit yet.

I personally doubt it. I don't see any need. Street driving at even the most extreme is well within even stock brakes' capability unless we are talking about RTs. Even an RT has good-sized brakes that probably need nothing more than better pads and slightly better fluid to be ready for the steepest mountain descent. Add stainless lines to that and you have an good poor man's big brake kit.

...

Unless you are the manufacturer of brake pads that can't do their job. In that case blame the brakes none of the other pad mfrs seem to have a problem with .

Can you post a picture of the pick up points you use to feed the ducts?

 

[CT-MSRT]

Can you post a picture of the pick up points you use to feed the ducts?

the inlet for most of our custom ducts is the factory inlet next to the fog light. From that bezel back, many swap in pieces of flexible hose and other configurations to go back to their spindle ducts but everyone i have seen so far uses the factory inlet in the front fascia.

Matt may have more to add to this.

 

[MattRobertson]

What Mike said. I use the factory inlet coupled to a special fascia plate over the fog bezels to open up that space (who the heck sold that to me?). For a dedicated track car, it may make some sense to delete the fog lights and use both holes to somehow route dual spindle ducts. Mine are single and 3".

If you are starting with an SRT you are going to have to do a fair bit more work to get rid of the existing ducts in favor of spindle ducts. Especially if putting in fans.

As you can see, the fogs could make a good second inlet.

edit: Here is where to get the bezels. http://dodgemagnumgrill.com/page4.html
Its a long time forum member and I am having a total brainfart not remembering who it is.

 

[RobAGD]

Nc-sxt

-r

 

[JusticePete]

There is such a difference in temps with and without fans, I am wondering if there is sufficient clean air flow at the point pf pick up. If there was a raised edge, nothing more than a piece of aluminum on the right / tape side of the pick up point about 15mm / 1/2" to form a 'scoop' if the duct would be more efficient with and without a fan?

 

[MattRobertson]

Nc-sxt

There is such a difference in temps with and without fans, I am wondering if there is sufficient clean air flow at the point pf pick up. If there was a raised edge, nothing more than a piece of aluminum on the right / tape side of the pick up point about 15mm / 1/2" to form a 'scoop' if the duct would be more efficient with and without a fan?

Possibly. Appearance was a consideration given the dual-use nature of the car. Also the fog light area is already a depression in the front end. Part of the deal was that this was the first time anyone had tried this, so no matter what this is gen 1 brainpower on parade.

One thing we are doing is putting in the fitted ET1970 billet backing plate at the spindle duct. That will help with the air capture; making it more efficient by giving it every opportunity to force as much air as possible thru the interior of the rotor body. Down the road I want to try Mikah's Y idea if it can be done. I need to get the car back in hand so I can crawl under it and try to figure out if there's room. Its entirely possible that the solution there is to use a 4" fan and shroud it down to 3" at the Y, which will remove a few inches of clearance on one end and may help with fitting it in.

 

[JusticePete]

All good ideas worth further discussion and trials.