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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #121 ·
Well I'm scheduled for 10/21. Here is the plan:

1) Dyno, GSM mod off, 20" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
2) Dyno, GSM mod on, 20" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
3) Dyno, GSM mod on, 20" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
4) Dyno, GSM mod on, 18" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
5) Install headers
6) Dyno, GSM mod on, 18" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
7) Dyno, GSM mod on, 18" rims and tires, K&N Aircharger
8) Dyno, GSM mod on, 18" rims and tires, Funnel Ram IV
9) Dyno, GSM mod on, 18" rims and tires, stock air box

Matt, can you break away late afternoon? Maybe we can throw your's back on the dyno and see if mileage makes any difference at all.

If I can coax some help in the evening (swapping the 18" and 20"), we can plan to head to the track. Matt, I'd love to see you there... maybe we can convince gotls1 to run both our cars. Run mine with the 18" first, we can swap them with the 20" while she runs your Mag, then she'd run mine again?

Just throwing out thoughts. Any comments?
 

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T.G.I.F.
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24,375 Posts
Next Friday? Definite maybe. I want to make it up there as well. Don't know if time is going to allow it though. I would love to make it to the track, especially.
 

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Never thought I'd be on a boat.
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868 Posts
I should be able to make it to Sac next Friday, but we'll see. Our office got broken into last weekend, so it's been a real $#^% storm around here lately.
 

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LX Newbie
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11 Posts
Hi Guys, sorry for the newbie question but why do you go all the way to Sac? Are there no dynos in the Bay Area?

gotls1 said:
I should be able to make it to Sac next Friday, but we'll see. Our office got broken into last weekend, so it's been a real $#^% storm around here lately.
 

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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #126 ·
Dood said:
Hi Guys, sorry for the newbie question but why do you go all the way to Sac? Are there no dynos in the Bay Area?
I'm sure there are quality dyno shops in the Bay Area, but those that I called wanted more money and didn't seem as interested in what we were doing. When I spoke Bob, he made it very clear that this is his passion, that he would love to have us, and that he had no problem diving in and offering help, advice opinions and suggestions. We've gone back and will go back again because Bob and his staff continue to show their commitment to us and their craft.
Hemi31 said:
I have a question.If our air box does a good job pulling in outside cool air,has anyone tried mating an aircharger style tube and filter to a stock airbox and if so any results?
We tested these intake methods as a whole. If the aircharger style tube was superior to the stock tube, we should have seen some indication in the first run of the Aircharger intake (before heat soak could take effect). Test after test showed that the stock intake presented more than enough air for the throttle body. A smooth tube just wouldn't have any effect because there is already enough air at the TB.

There have been a few pioneering folks on these boards that have done something like that though. The general feeling I've gathered from reading their posts is that while it sounds better, it probably does little in terms of performance.
 

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LX Newbie
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74 Posts
I know we were questioning the poor HP and torque numbers from the last dyno report on the Gibson headers. but someone on the 300C forums had a good point. Shorty headers tend to deliver low and mid range torque numbers and may not show a great deal on the max end where the numbers were posted. What really matters is the area of difference along the whole curve not just the top end. with this in mind I tried to down load the files for the dyno run to see if I could see the whole curve. I have an imac and was not able to open the files!!!
Can somebody with the ability to do this please post the dyno runs of the stock as well as the Gibson header runs so that we could compare the curves. This may answer alot of questions about the Gibson headers.
Thanks in advance for any help. :thumbs_u:
 

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LX Padiwan
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646 Posts
I forgot CV, did you guys determine if removing the "eardrum" helped or hindered the stock intake?

I know I could go back and find the answer myself, but have you noticed how huge those threads have gotten?!?!? <grin>
 

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LX Padiwan
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986 Posts
I also can't read the files because I have WEBTV . I know you have put a lot of work in them , but I would really like to see the power curves= stock and with the Gibsons. Thanks....
 

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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #131 ·
FOAMAVEN said:
Can somebody with the ability to do this please post the dyno runs of the stock as well as the Gibson header runs so that we could compare the curves. This may answer alot of questions about the Gibson headers.
Done! Check the first post again; there is a new chart added. There appears to be a slight dip in the accel curve in the pre header run; its subtle, but there none the less.

I forgot CV, did you guys determine if removing the "eardrum" helped or hindered the stock intake?
No difference at all. Perhaps a touch louder, but no other decernable change.
 

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LX Newbie
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74 Posts
CoolVanilla...Thanks so much for posting the charts, I feel much better!!!
The high end numbers tell nothing about what the Gibson headers are doing. All the gains are in the low to mid range and they fade out on top end. So the 2HP and 3 ft.lbs. of torque reported at top end do not tell the true story at all! A rough estimate of the chart shows gains of 20 HP and 21 ft.lbs. of torque at the low rpm range, 15 HP and 15 ft.lbs. of torque in the mid rpm range, and tapering off at the top end! This is good news because the gains are in the rpm range used most of all. :thumbs_u: :beerchug: :thumbs_u:
 

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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #134 ·
Well, at first blush I was gettin all gitty too. But, something just seemed... suspect. Then it hit me; the chart I posted is in terms of Speed (MPH), not RPM. Its a minor detail, but one that we can't ignore (the RPMs might be very different for the same speed thanks to our tranny's, and therefore show a very different power curve). If I use the same two files but compare them in terms of RPM I get a chart I just can't read (thanks, yet again to our lovely tranny's)

I will say, I'm still pretty gitty. This might explain those of us that swear these mods we make just seem to pull harder. FYI I did a comparison between the GIFO1 and 2 in the same manner, and found a whopping 40/40 spread at some points in the power curve due to the Zoomers. Also interesting to note that a similar comparison between intakes show almost no difference it power curvature.
 

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Drive It Like You Stole It....
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570 Posts
FOAMAVEN said:
CoolVanilla...Thanks so much for posting the charts, I feel much better!!!
The high end numbers tell nothing about what the Gibson headers are doing. All the gains are in the low to mid range and they fade out on top end. So the 2HP and 3 ft.lbs. of torque reported at top end do not tell the true story at all! A rough estimate of the chart shows gains of 20 HP and 21 ft.lbs. of torque at the low rpm range, 15 HP and 15 ft.lbs. of torque in the mid rpm range, and tapering off at the top end! This is good news because the gains are in the rpm range used most of all. :thumbs_u: :beerchug: :thumbs_u:
Hubba Hubba!!!!!!!!
Now thats what I was looking for. Who cares about top end, when the acceration is needed at the stop light...
:bump:
 

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LX Padiwan
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986 Posts
CV; I'm real slow , can you please say why you can't read the rpm comparison charts?
 

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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #137 ·
fogey said:
CV; I'm real slow , can you please say why you can't read the rpm comparison charts?
Sorry fogey, I missed your question somehow.

Here, take a look and I think you'll see what I mean:


Because of the dramatic buffering the tranny does before a shift, our graphs get all screwy when put in terms of RPM.

I suppose, after thinking more about it, I could import the raw data into excel and derive a numerical difference that way. Maybe I'll give that a shot with the data we gather tomorrow.
 

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LX Padiwan
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986 Posts
Thanks CV , thats the craziest graph I ever saw.
 

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High Power Junkie
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16,614 Posts
Discussion Starter · #139 ·
fogey said:
Thanks CV , thats the craziest graph I ever saw.
Yep, I agree. Thats why I had such high hopes for the GSM mod. Anything that can remove that huge drop in power between shifts is worth every cent. Of the four runs Matt made with it engaged, though, only one showed an improvement (and it was a very nice improvement indeed!) I'm hoping my results tomorrow are more consistent. I'm having a hard time believing something is wrong with Matt's install, but then again... what else could it be?
 

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LX Padiwan
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986 Posts
I just got back from my installer. He switched the Gibson bolts for the Breslins. The only one that can't be used is the one for the dipstick tube.
 
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