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· LX Padiwan
All Hemi's, all somewhat modded: Magnum R/T, Jeep GCO and 300C SRT8
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829 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just saw this article on black boxes in our vehicles. Is a letter writing campaign required? Read on:
"Who’s Watching?
By ERIC PETERS

Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.

EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.

But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.

Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.


What Do You Think?
If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.

Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.

The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.

Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?

It's all for our own good.

But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/"
 

· Retired Xeroid
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1,076 Posts
Just get yourself an aluminum foil hat.

For your GPS antenna that is, when you're feeling like misbehaving. They could not disable the car without a GPS signal since near tall buildings, heavy foilage and tunnels the GPS signal is usually not available.

That being said, there are strong arguments on both sides of the issue. I suspect the black box will be eventually installed ubiquitously but need a warrant to release the data since the car and the data on the black box and the box itself are your property.
 

· LX Guru
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2,873 Posts
Opinion: Depends on who has a right to the information. If the information can be taken from you without your consent under any circumstances then no, the black box should not be allowed.

On the other hand if you are driving a public transportation vehicle (taxi cabs, buses, and all) they should all be required to have these.

There is a difference between your rights as a private citizen and your rights as a private citizen in a public paid for transportation vehicle. Airplanes have black boxes... vehicles for mass transit can have these without violating your rights.
 

· Stewed, Screwed, & Tattooed!
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2,390 Posts
I agree with Quarky, this should NOT go in are own vehicles. They should only be put in Buses, cabs, etc. But I also think if it is a company car it would be a good idea too, so you can make sure your employee is treating the vehicle with respect. And also cop cars, so just incase they get a little POWER happy, and they mis-use there power, they can be found out.
 

· Ka CHOW!
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4,505 Posts
I suppose I am against it solely for the purpose of "automatic ticketing". As a personal preferance, I choose to be a little faster than everyone else on the road.

Why?

Because I don't want to get stuck in that group of twenty cars that just left the traffic light and go the exact same speed. Nice way to have a huge pile up just like in a NASCAR race.

Granted, we are not going 200 mph but around here it is half a car length at 75-80 mph. Let one of those people suddenly run out of talent and see what happens.
 

· Speed on... Hell ain't half full
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24,689 Posts
I'm FOR them for crash data acquisition... AGAINST them for any/all other purposes. The way the magnum does it is fine with me... constant 10-second loop of data recorded, freezes the most recent 10 seconds if an airbag deploys.
 

· Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late
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6,164 Posts
Let one of those people run out of talent...that is precious!!

I'm against 'em!!
Is there not one in every LX vehicle, not a tracking, but one that can reveal the final 30 seconds before a wreck??

I just found out that all of the yachts we charter worldwide are having transponders installed. This is mostly to deter theft, but can bust you for going places you aren't supposed to.
The Owner of the yacht we have reserved for next June has one, I was joking with him to keep an eye on the SOG figures while we are aboard, hopefully pass up any of his fastest legs!!
 
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1,491 Posts
A system to track individual vehicles on the highway for speed would be preposterous. A system like that would cost a local police or highway patrol state agencies many times their annual budget to create and install. It would be cost prohibited to do so. An AWACS or E2C2 cost billions of dollars. It can track many aircraft in the air. But that is big aircrafts flying in the air. I dont think a system to track millions of vehicles on the highways will ever be devised in our lifetime.

I am an accident investigator/reconstructionist as well as a road patrol officer. These "black boxes" are great tools to find out how exactly a collision occurs. The information in the recorder and the physical evidence at a scene greatly helps an accident investigator. The information on the recorder can sometimes be acquired through a warrant or under evidence at a crime/accident scene.

Some paranoia go on here...
 

· LX Newbie
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94 Posts
I have to go with the "put 'em in" crowd. They are very valuable for crash investigations and determining who might be at fault. People don't always tell the truth. The boxes don't lie. I would love to be able to access lots of data when my sons get old enough to drive. There are aftermarket devices for that, but it would be great if it were built in. For those who cringe at the thought of their insurance company finding out how they drive and raising rates I ask, "Why should I pay higher rates when I drive carefully to cover the actions of those who drive less carefully?" We should each pay for the risk we create. It's called personal responsibility. Look at the guy who totalled his black SRT8 300 because he was doing 165 on an unfamiliar road at night (elsewhere in this forum) and was bragging about how his insurance company had already bought him a new one. He should lose his license have to pay out the hind end as far as I am concerned! If I want to turn my commute into a NASCAR event, then I should be willing to pay for it. No one loves cars and driving more than I do. However, my rights end where the next guy's begin. I am willing to pay for the risk I create. I have nothing to hide from my insurance carrier, law enforcement, etc., so have no problem with these boxes.
 

· LX Padiwan
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607 Posts
Read the Owners Manual. It says it all in there. What the black box is and can be used for. Makes no difference to me. I guess if you follow the rules you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure I will get crap for the last part....but it's true.
Adam
 

· LX Padiwan
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762 Posts
Hardhawk said:
I have to go with the "put 'em in" crowd. They are very valuable for crash investigations and determining who might be at fault. People don't always tell the truth. The boxes don't lie. I would love to be able to access lots of data when my sons get old enough to drive. There are aftermarket devices for that, but it would be great if it were built in. For those who cringe at the thought of their insurance company finding out how they drive and raising rates I ask, "Why should I pay higher rates when I drive carefully to cover the actions of those who drive less carefully?" We should each pay for the risk we create. It's called personal responsibility. Look at the guy who totalled his black SRT8 300 because he was doing 165 on an unfamiliar road at night (elsewhere in this forum) and was bragging about how his insurance company had already bought him a new one. He should lose his license have to pay out the hind end as far as I am concerned! If I want to turn my commute into a NASCAR event, then I should be willing to pay for it. No one loves cars and driving more than I do. However, my rights end where the next guy's begin. I am willing to pay for the risk I create. I have nothing to hide from my insurance carrier, law enforcement, etc., so have no problem with these boxes.
You made a great point and I agree 100%. :thumbs_u:

If they do get to the point of using them to track speed, I will plead temporary insanity when caught. " THE HEMI MADE ME DO IT". If that fails I will sue the DCX for making a vehicle that goes double the max speed I am allowed to drive and the NHTSA for allowing them to make it.
 
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