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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,

I had the Kooks headers and high flow CATs installed a few weeks ago on my SRT8 and have had the CEL light on since. I also have a weird rattle sound at start-up and low idle that I definitely didn't have prior to the install.....sounds like it is coming from around the Kooks CATs. I checked things out for loose parts underneath but everything seems secure and tight.

Any ideas? I have read through many threads on this forum tonight about folks that have had CEL and ones who haven't. I have also read a bunch of posts about the low idle rattle from the CATs.....but don't really see answers for either issue.

I had my Dodge Dealer (who installed the Kooks and CATs) check it out and they say the codes are coming from the CAT O2 sensors. They removed all the codes (I guess a reset?) and the CEL has now come back on within 50 miles.

Not sure if the CEL is causing an issue (doubt it) but it would be hard to tell if there were other problems with the light on constantly. The rattle is down right annoying.

Help / ideas is appreciated....and LOVE this forum!

- Glen
 

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Who Farted........O its torquemanagment!
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485 Posts
o2s may be place to far back in the system now and are not getting the heat they need ot operate proberly. On mustang we use to put heated truck o2s and it would clear the problems. dont know anything about the Mopar though
 

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anytime you get a CEL, it's a good idea to check out the code so you know exactly whats up. Turn your key on and off three times then waych the quage cluster for the code(s). Google it(them) and you'll know exactly whats up. handy tip of the day.
The cel your getting from the headers is from the 02 sensors reading too much exhaust. You can stack helf inch spacers and it'll pull the sensor out just far enough to not trhow up anymore codes. I don't have em on mine yet. A freind is sending me some and as soon as he does, I'll letcha know where to get em.

... to reset your cel light, unplug the negative cable from the battery and turn the key on for30 seconds then back off. Hook the cable back and when ya start the car, the cel will be gone.
 

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I get the Cat CEL everytime we put a set on here. The rattle is probably the crossmember were the x-pipe is located, either remove it or shim it down with 3-4 washers. The final place to check for rubbing is just before the rear axle, right behind the x-pipe where both pipes turn out. They can be less than .5" away from the body rear seat. Take care!
 

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2006 Mag SRT Owner
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13,441 Posts
On, ACC, On, ACC, On watch the EVIC where your odometer normally is.

Tell us the code. So far I have to say there is no consistant solution. My code says I have a lean condition on the downstream cat on the drivers side. I tried the spacers, put in a new O2 sensor and stil have the code.

Someone suggested driving it this way for a while to see if the computer learns anything and corrects itself. I hasn't over the last 1000 miles and I doubt it ever will, as the error is in a downstream sensor that is not used to engine control, it is only there to test the cat efficency for emissions.

GSM advertises a Sim that would plug in in place of the O2s and correct all this, but I heard they throw codes too and they are working on a fix. Unfortunately they don't ever seem to check their forum here to answer questions about this.

If anyone has these codes and lives anywhere around Jaak, perhaps you could get with him and let him diagnose the problem. I am very confident that if he can see the problem he can come up with an electronic fix for us. I have about a year and a half to fix it before I need emission testing here. If forced to, I still have the stock exhaust in the garage and I can put it back on. It's really not that much trouble if you have a lift.

If you find a solution, post it up here, there is alot of us looking!

Thanks,

Don
 

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Thread Killer, Vote Stealer
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Have you had the headers retorqued? This is the primary reason I will probably never get true headers on my Mag.
 

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Premium Member
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msdnga said:
I get the Cat CEL everytime we put a set on here. The rattle is probably the crossmember were the x-pipe is located, either remove it or shim it down with 3-4 washers. The final place to check for rubbing is just before the rear axle, right behind the x-pipe where both pipes turn out. They can be less than .5" away from the body rear seat. Take care!
That's the exact problem I had, at the cross-member. On day 2, I used a few washers to drop the cross-member but the pipe dropped again.

The problem is where the cats & headers meet. The cats twist up front and push the back down, taking the cross-member down.

On day 3 I had the cats welded to the headers, problem solved.

I have no CEL after about 250 miles now, but I beat the crap out of the car, maybe that helps? :grin:

Later,
Frank
 

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2006 Mag SRT Owner
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13,441 Posts

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I'm releasing the flying monkeys!
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GasGunR said:
If you ahve CELs lets talk about it here. http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=35848

Maybe we can get GSM off the dime on this.

Thanks,

Don
Good luck w/that. Everything I read on the forum tells me NEVER order anything from GSM - they take the money and run. No posts to help us, no email replies, no one on the phone, no calls returned (unless you want to shove dollar bills at them, of course).
 

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PPP-Tech
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To GSM's defense, they have been in the middle of moving operations to another building...but business must continue, they seem to have dropped the internet customer service they once had.

Marty, did I have any codes from the headers and cats? I have some mechanical trickers for you to install if we have this problem...lemme know. If that doesn't work, we need to find out the correct voltage the sensor is sending on a stock exhaust set up and duplicate that with a sim from o2simulator.com...he can make them to whatever you tell him to.
 

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Thanks Turbo, we are still trying to figure out how to drive it. Once it settles down, then I will do some slight engine mods to the combo to see what it gains. It has Cat Cel's too.
Dookie, yes, I did have codes for the new high flow cats. I'll get back on that soon.
 

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PPP-Tech
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634 Posts
msdnga said:
Thanks Turbo, we are still trying to figure out how to drive it. Once it settles down, then I will do some slight engine mods to the combo to see what it gains. It has Cat Cel's too.
Dookie, yes, I did have codes for the new high flow cats. I'll get back on that soon.
The codes aren't from the high flow's...had them before i brought the car to you, and never had a CEL since install...it's got to be from the header/cat combo...I'll send you the mechanicals and see if they work...others have had success, others haven't...so i'll give it a try.
 

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2006 Mag SRT Owner
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Wondering what were the codes?

Thanks,

Don
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi guys,

OK got home tonight and checked the codes. I have two: P0420 and P0430, which look like Bank 1 & 2 rear 02 sensor voltage differential from spec....correct?

So now what...should I try the 02 sensor spacer idea or could it be a leak that somewhere that is doing this?

I have the Kooks high flow CATs and headers and Magnaflow exhaust.

The Dodge tech told me that where the CAT pipe and Magnaflow pipes meet, the clamp couldn't tighten enough for a good seal and suggested I use some muffler cement and muffler foil tape...or get a muffler shop to flare the CAT pipe end out enough for a tighter fit. I have tried the cement and tape idea (that was fun getting under the car to do that on a 95% day!).....but it does still sound like there is a leak when I have the windows down.

Does anyone else with Kooks have or had this problem? This connection is behind the 02 sensors so not sure if it is the issue or not.

The other issue the Dodge tech had was with the Kooks 02 sensor connector. He said it wouldn't fit properly and he had to grind down the little tab with th 02 entender cable to fit in the Magnum 02 sensor connector. I have had Kooks stuff before and not had this quality problems....not impressed!

Man, I have put a lot of headers on many cars in the past (including a 99 Trans Am) and have never had this type of problem before.....dam new emission controls !

- Glen
 

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LX Newbie
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102 Posts
have had the same problem with kooks and high flow cats. Have had 0420 and 0430 since install. Seems like theres no way around it, no one can confirm if the sims really work. I tried the washer fix, didnt do anything. Then I started getting 0133 and 0153 for a while. Went away on its own. Now I am getting P2098. This sucks.

I feel like taking the headers off, didnt provide much of a gain and I hate looking at the stupid cel light on the dash. On top of that the connection between the cat pipe and magnaflows is leaking slightly producing that clicking noise. The tech tried different things to close up the slight leak but nothing helped.
 

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Soccer Wagon Dad
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283 Posts
PO420 and PO430 are very common codes when it comes to OBD-II controlled vehicles and high flow cats. I have gotten both codes or just one of them on every late model vehicle I have done headers and high flow cats on. The code is for "cat ineffeciency" and would typically be the code you got thousands of miles down the road when your cats go bad and need replacement. On high flow cats, it has something to do with the increase in exhaust flow across the O2 and it can also be associated with any chane in the distance between the Primary O2 and the secondary O2. Since most headers have the O2 placed in a slightly new location, compared to stock, the timing could be wrong when the computer does the check routine. Either way, on GMs and Fords it isn't a issue....Plenty of aftermarket support to rid you of these codes(I have emissions tested two of my mod'd vehicles and high flow cats work very well) so that you can drive with no CEL. I removed my Kooks/high flows on the Magnum due to no support on removing the codes. I live with the codes in my Dodge Ram with headers/cats, though....

I would start working with somebody other than GSM for help. They have never been very forth-coming in helping us unless you send them your dollar. Even then, I have never gotten any sort of help from them on the CEL issue and my headers/cats came from them(read, they got my money and still don't help).

KRC has been a big help to the truck guys over the years. Maybe Marty and the crew there can start to look at SIMs or some way to remove the PO420/PO430 codes for us.

Todd
 

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Motor Head
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I used the Spark Plug Non-Foulers on my Dynatechs and (knock on wood) haven't gotten one CEL.

Dookie said:
The codes aren't from the high flow's...had them before i brought the car to you, and never had a CEL since install...it's got to be from the header/cat combo...I'll send you the mechanicals and see if they work...others have had success, others haven't...so i'll give it a try.
 
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