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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by centexcharger View Post
    I look at myself. My deer lease is 300 miles away. There are 0 charging stations between Austin and there and I HIGHLY doubt George West or Alice are planning on installing any. The lease only has 120v power. So even if I let the vehicle charge for two straight days, I wouldn’t get more than a 100 miles of range. Maybe 200. Which still won’t get me within range of a charging station. Hell between my house and office there are only a couple of stations. This **** just isn’t feasible for the majority of folks. It would work for city dwellers that never leave their base city but for those of us that do road trips, not even close to a reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemissary View Post
    So much self-serving naive and baseless innuendo and ongoing negativity
    Here in the USA we have this thing called FREEDOM.

    Sorry you have no idea what that is.



  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB1 View Post
    In short:
    we invent, we spend money, we produce to ALL; they ALL buy and consume.
    Unless we wish to exclude underdeveloped countries from using EVs?
    In that case, we will loose market, and make China happier,
    right?
    I might be misunderstanding your comment, so allow me to attempt to clarify how I inferred it:

    Is "we" the USA?

    If so, IMO, it is not our obligation to pull underdeveloped countries into the technological era. I don't believe China believes this either. It will occur organically as they advance. At this time China can sell their products at a lower cost than the USA can. There is a built in imbalance in trade. So, to compete the USA has to sweeten the pot. How much extra??

    It seems to me the world fells entitled to USA financial support in all things. Sure we get something valuable in return, but it most likely a one-sided transaction.

    China is the USA's greatest economical enemy, and has all the leverage over the USA. I don't see this inequity leveling out anytime in the near future. To use Peter Senge terminology, this is a divergent problem (that is, the more you find possible solutions, the more the problem expands and complicates). It will require intense system thinking and minimizing the influence of the dumbest group in the world, United States Congress.
    Terry

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  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT NOMAD View Post
    I might be misunderstanding your comment, so allow me to attempt to clarify how I inferred it:

    Is "we" the USA?

    If so, IMO, it is not our obligation to pull underdeveloped countries into the technological era. I don't believe China believes this either. It will occur organically as they advance. At this time China can sell their products at a lower cost than the USA can. There is a built in imbalance in trade. So, to compete the USA has to sweeten the pot. How much extra??

    It seems to me the world fells entitled to USA financial support in all things. Sure we get something valuable in return, but it most likely a one-sided transaction.

    China is the USA's greatest economical enemy, and has all the leverage over the USA. I don't see this inequity leveling out anytime in the near future. To use Peter Senge terminology, this is a divergent problem (that is, the more you find possible solutions, the more the problem expands and complicates). It will require intense system thinking and minimizing the influence of the dumbest group in the world, United States Congress.
    So the only way to advance is to eliminate congress and become a dictatorship? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me, I'd rather have a single person running things any way they want...

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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTSDart340 View Post
    So the only way to advance is to eliminate congress and become a dictatorship? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me, I'd rather have a single person running things any way they want...
    Do know that the most important outcome for everyone of the 535 elected to Congress is the get re-elected!?? First thought they have is "What is in the best interest of me staying in office?"

    I am not advocating a dictatorship, just stating that we need to improve the effectiveness of Congress. Have your heard of the statement, "None of us is as dumb as all of us."?
    My solution: You run for a single 8 year term for the House. At the end of your 8 years, you go back home. You don't waste a moment of your time trying to get re-elected. Repeal the 17th Amendment. That fixes the Senate.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT NOMAD View Post
    I might be misunderstanding your comment, so allow me to attempt to clarify how I inferred it:

    Is "we" the USA?

    If so, IMO, it is not our obligation to pull underdeveloped countries into the technological era. I don't believe China believes this either. It will occur organically as they advance. At this time China can sell their products at a lower cost than the USA can. There is a built in imbalance in trade. So, to compete the USA has to sweeten the pot. How much extra??

    It seems to me charging stations in all things. Sure we get something valuable in return, but it most likely a one-sided transaction.

    China is the USA's greatest economical enemy, and has all the leverage over the USA. I don't see this inequity leveling out anytime in the near future. To use Peter Senge terminology, this is a divergent problem (that is, the more you find possible solutions, the more the problem expands and complicates). It will require intense system thinking and minimizing the influence of the dumbest group in the world, United States Congress.
    Hi Terry,

    I'll take the fifth on politics to avoid shutting down the thread.
    I've been told politics is not allowed on this forum.


    For the purpose of this topic only, the WE meant us in the USA, and feel free to extend it to the rest of the Developed World.
    To clarify, think of it as WE in the developed world
    and THEM in the underdeveloped one.

    I do agree that it is no one obligation to pull anyone into the technological era;
    I do also agree that China doesn't believes this either.
    However and with all due respect I strongly disagree with the statement
    the world feels entitled to USA financial support in all things.

    Why am saying this?

    Again, setting politics and military aids a side,
    I'll limit my explanation to EVs.
    No underdeveloped country will ask us to pull them into
    the technological era, nor anyone will ask for USA
    financial support in building EVs or charging stations.
    I don't believe that automobile manufacturers behave in the same manner
    as mother Teresa or some random charity organizations.
    Any financial support given to anyone has been conditional,
    motivated by pure economics incentives and/or international marketing strategies.

    You may ask, where we go from here? and I answer:
    we pump our aids to any underdeveloped country based on our own strategic economic interests.
    If the strategy is to sell more EVs for more economic aids then be it.
    The minute we feel economic aids have become a burden?
    We call in the big gun, the IMF to start lending the Underdeveloped World.

    We are more than willing to discount all charging stations,
    or we may elect to donate some and call it anything we wish as a form of economic aid.
    It won't hurt to add a second major point,
    we need to remember most of raw material needed to make the very product we sell
    (EVs in this case) are located in and around underdeveloped countries.

    In conclusion,
    Sending aids to underdeveloped countries becomes an integral part of manufacturing
    EVs, Batteries and charging stations. Aids, therefore, are in our marketing strategies.
    it's in our economic interest. it has become inseparable from our own economic survival.

    I hope the above answers your concerns.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB1 View Post
    Hi Terry,

    I'll take the fifth on politics to avoid shutting down the thread.
    I've been told politics is not allowed on this forum.
    IMO, I am not talking politics, as I know it. I am talking about governing. Do know that I believe the far left, moderate left, centrists, moderate right, and far right are all contributing equally to my concern about government. It is not political, it's a system problem grounded in the love of money and power, which is a fault of mankind and not the political leaning of anyone.

    Now if we were to discuss which group could best improve this situation, that would be political.
    Last edited by RT NOMAD; Yesterday at 02:51 PM.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT NOMAD View Post
    IMO, I am not talking politics, as I know it. I am talking about governing. Do know that I believe the far left, moderate left, centrists, moderate right, and far right are all contributing equally to my concern about government. It is not political, it's a system problem grounded in the love of money and power, which is a fault of mankind and not the political leaning of anyone.

    Now if we were to discuss which group could best improve this situation, that would be political.

    That's more than fair enough.

    Regards
    Bill

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB1 View Post
    Perfect timing to bet, but I wish to bet on donuts not dollars
    staying in a remote town for a week, not a single DD.
    I'll do my best to justify my fears, and hope to win 1/2 a dozen.

    1. Consistency and Integrity:
    While I don't doubt the better consistency and integrity over all many(!)
    things that could go wrong with an IC during the same harsh conditions.
    I do take into consideration different geographic locations, the logistics,
    the available resources, and money!
    We need to come to grips with the fact that ( not all countries are created equal)
    Just imagine charging stations in this order:
    (US vs. Yemen, Canada vs. Angola, Germany vs. Somalia)
    The only possible way for a match is perhaps in the Olympics.

    2. New Technology:
    New exotic tech starts somewhere in the West, or in the East
    in countries like Japan, China, South Korea or even India.
    They invest in the know-how, and they've the money to invest
    Then it gets imported by poor countries (they buy it, they pay money)
    So access to charging stations in the US/European countries AND some remote areas in a foreign country
    is not an equal access, it can not be equal for many are poor countries with no money.
    Please remember, my earlier post/fears reflected (my own exceptional case in this part of the world)

    3. EV vs. ICE Technical Problems:
    Yes you are correct, I've been terrified with
    the things that could go wrong with an IC during the same harsh conditions.
    In fact, many possibilities of getting caught on fire with a defected alternator on my 300,
    or defected rocker arms, getting stranded in the same harsh conditions is no fun.

    Note:
    While some of you ( and rightly so) may consider my fears a bit exaggerated,
    the possibilities of catching an alternator fire or getting stranded due to defected rockers on 300
    are well documented in Chrysler's "lip service" recalls.
    In this case, those same exact fears will be multiplied by 300s in a 300 EV.
    Why?
    Because mechanics (in this part of the world) have serious issues in diagnosing/repairing 300 ICEs

    Conclusion:
    When we discuss EVs, we need to take geography into consideration.
    When we discuss charging stations, we can't sit here,
    and start theorizing by simply grabbing the biggest widest paint brush we can find,
    and start applying our own Western theory of colors to all countries.

    It does NOT matter whether we're talking EVs or ICEs,
    It does NOT matter whether we're FOR or AGAINST EVs.

    In both, and in all cases, geography, tech resources, and money must be included in this discussion.
    That is to say: What works in Western Europe MAY NOT work in other parts of the World.

    All the best.
    To clarify; your fears are well-founded if battery capacity vs. distance to a charge station would leave you stranded. Eventually, just like they are installing elsewhere, there will be self-contained infrastructure (with its own storage capabilities) along those desert highways to allow for 24/7 recharge.

    Its going to take time...
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