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GIFO3 Sidebar: MattRoberston's Gibson Header results

54K views 143 replies 30 participants last post by  Meister 
#1 · (Edited)
MattRoberston had his headers installed 10/10/05. Download the raw data and reader here: https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/SS/SharedStorage.asp?id=484c2c8725190fa5411926c52ae03b0d26c5345421b848ad321b00852e94(enter your username, no password is required)

Here is a summary of the results:



Take a look at this chart. Notice that with the GSM modification turned off, we get a nasty dip in hp and torque when the tranny shifts.


With the GSM modification turn on, that dip is greatly reduced:


Here they are, overlayed:

I could not define separate colors for torque and hp, and between runs. The higher line for a color indicates torque, the lower hp. The point here is just to show the difference the GSM mod made.

And, to show the difference in acceleration. Take a look at the differential up the power curve; looks like an increase of 10/10 or so in some places!


It should be noted that, of the 4 dyno runs with the GSM modification turned on, this is the only one that shows a reduced dip; all others show a similar plot to the stock. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but we'll be checking into this soon.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
At a guess, wheel weight isn't much of a factor if at all on speed. Remember my track times at the first GIFO and the dyno numbers at the second. I was right there with you stock wheel guys on the dyno, and had 2nd-best track time by a teeensy hair :) ... and my wheels weigh 38 lbs.

EDIT: Now that I have stuck the wheels on a scale I find that what the mfr told me was wrong. They weigh only 30 lbs.
 
#5 ·
Alright, if this comes together I am definetly comming. GIFO I missed due to not knowing it was in Nor Cal...GIFOPE I missed cause I extended my Florida Vacation..Now this one I really want to make.
Calabahn...Do you still have the 6 disk?
 
#6 · (Edited)
All, Josh at HighHorsePerformance has done it again; he and I are currently working together to provide a set of Gibson headers and Magnaflow High Flow cats for this test. I can't say it enough; Josh has gone above and beyond what anyone might hope for from a distributor or vendor. He really deserves your first look when you consider any aftermarket modifications to your LX. I don't have to tell you how important it is to support those that support us; but I do feel like Josh deserves that extra pat on the back. Without his encouragement both verbally and financially, we would not be having this discussion.

Please review the rewritten first post. With the original set of test ideas as well as the addition of MattRobertson's test results, we really stand to gather a ton of good information this go around. We've got a good distance to go, though, financially. Lets make it happen folks!
 
#7 ·
Way to go Josh.

I am paypaling money now for the fund.
 
#8 ·
Hey all, FYI:

My header install and dyno runs are not a part of any donations you make to GIFO3. Contributions are only going to the CVMobile's runs, where CV will be running his usual rigorous testing on multiple intakes. I planned my install myself and wanted the dyno runs so I had them priced in. Its just a lucky factor of geography (and the fact that I trust the folks at SVS after spending two days there looking at what they do and talking to Bob) that I happen to be doing my install at the same dyno facility that we've been testing at.

If I have enough time I'll also be testing with Fuse 17 pulled (to see if it affects the power dropoff during shifts).

Another point of interest will be the fact that I'm using ultralight 20" rims now. We have dyno runs of my car at GIFOPE running my heavier 18" chromed alloys, and 1/4 mile times with them that both showed I was right up with everybody else in both HP and time. Will be interesting to see if we get any differences on my pre-install runs, where the only difference will be the wheels (and the temp/humidity, but hopefully we can figure out how to correct for that).

So my first run should be useful in determining the affect, if any, of the light wheels. We can compare that to CV's first pre-install run with his somewhat heavier 20" wheels and see if we learn anything useful on that score.

So if you guys were thinking that the bar was a double-set of dyno runs, it ain't. Step up, people. You can't lie to the dyno, and we'll all benefit from this.
 
#9 ·
Thanks Matt. I'll update the original post.

Thanks to Matt's willingness to pay for his dyno tests, we can lower the required fundage. I think we should shoot for $400; that will cover the dyno time and track runs. We're half way there people!
 
#11 ·
IDSmoker said:
Matt or CV: Are either of you planning on getting the new GSM Traction/Fan mod done before the dyno runs?
maybe. I don't want to be the first one to jump on it. I want to see other installs and testimonials.
 
#14 ·
hyperbolic said:
After two rounds of intake tests I don't see the point of another round. Tests of the just headers and cats would hold some interest.
I think its morphed beyond simple intake at this point. Its more of a general 'breathing' test.

We'll be seeing what happens when you have put an intake and exhaust on, and then toss on the reasonably-priced Gibson headers (both with hi-flow cats and stockers). CV's tests will be with the hi-flow cats so you'll be seeing best-case results coupled to a few intakes, which will be helpful to the various folks out there who have one intake or the other.

From me, you'll see the po' man's install with the stock cats coupled to an intake/exhaust. Just one intake from me.

Plus the both of us will have different wheels, so you can draw some comparisons from that as well. Should be neat. We're coming up with a hell of a lot of standardized info. All coming from the same cars and the same dyno.
 
#15 ·
The traction mod should do nothing on the dyno since the reading is usually taken in one gear with no gear change. The traction mod removes the engine power drop during gear shifts to make it softer.
 
#17 ·
BrilliantBlackHemi said:
The traction mod should do nothing on the dyno since the reading is usually taken in one gear with no gear change. The traction mod removes the engine power drop during gear shifts to make it softer.
Actually it will. There's no way to lock the Magnum in a gear. I believe there are two shifts involved, with the first one being of minimal effect and the second being... well, everyone in the shop knows when it happens. See if you can guess where it is on this dyno from GIFOPE:

http://foohbar.com/ul/48/dyno_1024.jpg

I'll have to pull my video to see if there really are two shifts in there.
 
#19 ·
I'm HighHorseman and I approve these tests.

If you guys haven't contributed to CV's newest test, please do. We're going to be setting him up with some Magnaflow hi-flow cats to test for us and his dyno results along with the Gibson headers will easily show what the results achieved through the changing of the cats will be. Because these tests are completed for the members of this forum by members of this forum, donations are needed to help cover the costs of the testing. I work to provide the parts, but it is the donations from members like you that pay for the testing that provides additional knowledge about these cars and the parts that are on the market for them. I know with recent events that there are much more important places to contribute your funds to, but for you to make a $5 or $10 contribution to these tests, it really does help. CV spends a lot of money out of pocket to bring you these tests and every little bit makes a difference.
 
#20 ·
are both test cars '05 models? did you try a dyno run on a cold motor?

does the computer detune the motor because the esp knows the front wheels aren't turning (or at least thinks the back wheels are slipping)?

is there a power difference with the '06 sparkplug configuration as compared to the '05s with different firing times?

i hope you get enough donations to get it done. i'm in.
 
#21 ·
are both test cars '05 models? did you try a dyno run on a cold motor?
If you're referring to MattR's and mine, then yes they are both 2005 RT's.
did you try a dyno run on a cold motor?
All GIFO1 and GIFO2 runs were made at relatively the same temps. However, I think you'll find numbers from a handful of folks that were at the GIFO2 who had "cold" motors. Really, we didn't see much difference at all.
does the computer detune the motor because the esp knows the front wheels aren't turning (or at least thinks the back wheels are slipping)?
Experimentation showed the answer to this question to be no. We pulled fuse 17 in some cases and not in others. The overall power numbers were statistically spot on.
is there a power difference with the '06 sparkplug configuration as compared to the '05s with different firing times?
This I'm pretty sure the answer to is no. We rewired my 05 in the GIFO2 and actually showed a decrease in numbers. Thats not to say when we did the rewire, our setup now matched an 06. In fact, thats not the case at all (search on this topic and you'll find a ton of info). I don't think any of the cars run in the GIFO2 were '06, but if there was one in there, we again saw no statistical difference between similar setups.
i hope you get enough donations to get it done. i'm in.
Me too! Thanks for helping out!
 
#22 ·
I am sending a Paypal payment as we speak, but I have a quick question.

You mentioned the Gibson headers will be installed, but will there be a dyno before the headers go on to verify the gain from this mod? I ask because not only am I one of the members of the GB that Josh put together, but since there were like 20 or 25 people who took part in the GB I am sure they would all like to know as well.

Thanks for any info and for the work you all are doing to inform us owners about our newest (and in most cases most expensive) toys.
 
#23 ·
Yup thats planned. I am doing the tests with the stock cats and I will dyno just before the install, and just after. It'll be on the same dyno CV will be running on so we're going to be consistent there.
 
#24 ·
Guy's (FWIW) I have been running a 180 thermostat for about 4k miles. My unofficial results have been good. I have no fan modification so the engine runs about the same temp as before in stop & go. Out on the highway it runs 183 to 185 in 90+ degree outside temps. There was a few stumbles from the computer the first 30 miles or so since I did not reset the computer. The good thing is that I am convinced I have seen a solid MPG increase on the highway.
 
#26 ·
I was wondering how the computer would react to the cooler thermosat...FarHawk, if you do indeed see better milage, would you tell us what it was and what it is now??

thanks
 
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