Test Information
Date: 8/12/05
Dyno Time: 12:00 - 5pm
Dyno Temp Range: 97 - 106 degrees F
Dyno Location: SVS Automotive Research and Development Dept, Sacramento (www.svsrnd.com)
Dyno Driver and test administrator: Bob Crespo of SVS R and D
Dynamometer: Superflow AutoDyn SF 840 Chassis
Dyno Setup: All tests were run with a fan blowing from the front of the vehicle as well as across the tail area.
Dyno Raw Data, WinDyn reader and Quicktime Movies of the ScanGauge during three different dyno runs: https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/SS/SharedStorage.asp?id=11281128341219100fdc26c53e453e1d26c53454349848ad12294648416e
(enter your username, no password is required)
Results Summary
Lets get right to the numbers:
The following statements are my own. I've based these thoughts on 50+ dyno runs made with various hardware, conversations I've had with performance experts, vendors and manufacturers, comments made by other members, general feelings expressed by those present at the dyno and at the track and my own previous experiences. So, I want there to be no misunderstanding: what I'm about to say are my own opinions. The only facts we have are the numbers above. You are invited to draw your own conclusions, however I suggest you do so with care and attempt to realize the only thing we can know for sure is what the numbers show for this particular group of variables.
The results are simple. Aftermarket intakes for my 2005 Magnum RT do not offer any benefit, and in fact can adversely affect performance. This statement holds true for both pre as well as post exhaust results.
I've carefully checked and rechecked the numbers in the chart above. These numbers are accurate and I invite anyone so inclined to double-check me against the raw data you can download above. I highlighted in green the average that produced the highest hp and torque numbers. As you can see, these numbers were the result of a stock intake after a reset. However, it is extremely important to realize at this point that statistically speaking, these highlighted numbers represent no difference when compared to the stock intake before a reset, the Volant with no reset with fuse 17 installed, the Volant with no reset with fuse 17 removed and the Aircharger with no reset and fuse 17 removed..
To me, this is very important. It proves a number of key points:
1) Resetting the computer (PCM specifically) makes zero difference in WOT performance. Before the test, I gave the Volant over 500 miles to "burn in"; remember, Volant states 150 is sufficient. Also, I had over 2000 miles on the exhaust. The tests show that wiping the PCM of this "burn in" does not have any effect. IMHO, there in fact is no burn in.
2) Pulling fuse 17 does not affect performance.
3) Resetting the computer and/or pulling fuse 17 does not put the transmission into any sort of "limp mode".
4) The horsepower gains seen when comparing the pre and post exhaust results (approx 10hp) are solely do to the exhaust. The intakes make zero difference in either case.
These ascertains are bolstered by the runs made by MattRobertson and Calabahn after my tests. You'll find these numbers just under the first bold line in the chart. Two different cars, with two different intakes, both having thousands of miles on their respective exhausts and intakes showed little to no difference between themselves as well as when compared to all the data derived from my Magnum.
Now look at the Airaid. While statistically speaking the difference is minimal, you can see that this particular intake actually degraded performance. The only reason I can come up with for this is the relative filter size. It does appear slightly smaller and therefore might actually introduce a restriction. This, however, is just an observation on my part. In truth I do not have an explanation.
Lastly, take a look at the rewired numbers. This test was done because of the interest expressed here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=15895 After the rewire, the following was observed by those present:
1) There may have been a slightly smoother idle. The engine appeared to shake less. However, the difference within the car was not enough to be noticed.
2) The pitch of the engine seemed to raise. No hard core proof of that, but more than one person commented that, at idle the pitch seemed a touch higher.
3) Performance: yikes. Again while minimal, there was definitely a drop off in performance at WOT. For me, the smoother idle that may or may not exist in no way justifies this mod. Lower performance and a sure fire way to piss off your dealership equals a bad idea.
Oh yeah, one more thing: gotls1's Camaro is for real (results below the second line in the chart). Bob stated it was the best performance numbers he's seen on his dyno for a Camaro LS1. Watching that thing rev up and get stronger and stronger was a thrill. It's also important to realize it provided a sort of validation for the dyno itself. Gotls1 stated the last time she ran she got 369hp, but with a locked converter. To get 365 without the lock in 106 deg F weather most certainly should remove any concern that the dyno itself might have been an issue.
Well folks that's it. Take these results and use them as you see fit. I fully understand and expect there to be dissenting opinions and feelings. For me, however, this matter is closed. Until the two items I list below are addressed, I think we're basically stuck:
1) Nothing short of a full programmer is going to unlock this engine. Take a look at the ignition timing. We need a programmer that will allow us to advance that timing at WOT. Until we can do that, we are completely hamstrung.
2) New software for our transmissions. As you can see in the raw data, this transmission is just plain weird. It shifts differently from run to run. It downshifts at odd RPMs. The code inside the TCM kills performance between gears, apparently to smooth the shift and to limit stress on the gears (thanks Mercedes) ect…
I hope you've found this as educational as I have. When you boil it all away, these kinds of mods (exhaust and intake) are worth every penny if they help add to the experience of owning your LX. I love my Zoommers. Every time she fires up, I get this grin I can't hide. I love the way the K&N intake looks and sounds. I really enjoy popping that hood and showing off the Hemi and that purdy K&N under there. I take more pride in my Magnum because I know I've tweaked it to my tastes. For me, these reasons by themselves are enough to more than justify the purchase of the components. When a programmer becomes available, maybe then performance gains will help add to the value I've already got.
It was great hanging with the gang again, and meeting a couple of the young LX'ers (lil miss magnumdude and young Calabahn). We will be putting together another M&G soon, and yes it will be on a weekend so more of ya working stiff's can attend.
PS: We did make it to the track, but the temps prevented any real comparisons from being drawn from the previous Face Off. Track temps were right around 100degrees until 9pm when it "cooled" off to about 92. gotls1 made a run of 14.7 AND out 60'd a C5 Vette, but that was probably because he was sitting there spinning instead of movin down the track Lots of video was taken and hopefully we'll have that up for all to see soon. In the mean time, enjoy the pics below.
The CV Mobile ready to go
Shot of the dyno computer
During a swap. From left to right: Bob, CoolVanilla, MattRoberston, magnumdude, lil miss magnumdude, Calabahn
Kaps installing the stock intake. Hey nice shirt CV!
CV, MR, and Cala trying to figure out why these intakes aren't yielding 400+ hp….
MR's DarthHemi strapped down and ready to run.
Mmmm love Darth's grill.
Darth's always watching (anyone see the camera?)
Bob getting Calabahn's baby ready to run
Get 'er done! Calabahns' ready to roll!
Move over boys, its the ladies time to play
Date: 8/12/05
Dyno Time: 12:00 - 5pm
Dyno Temp Range: 97 - 106 degrees F
Dyno Location: SVS Automotive Research and Development Dept, Sacramento (www.svsrnd.com)
Dyno Driver and test administrator: Bob Crespo of SVS R and D
Dynamometer: Superflow AutoDyn SF 840 Chassis
Dyno Setup: All tests were run with a fan blowing from the front of the vehicle as well as across the tail area.
Dyno Raw Data, WinDyn reader and Quicktime Movies of the ScanGauge during three different dyno runs: https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/SS/SharedStorage.asp?id=11281128341219100fdc26c53e453e1d26c53454349848ad12294648416e
(enter your username, no password is required)
Results Summary
Lets get right to the numbers:
The following statements are my own. I've based these thoughts on 50+ dyno runs made with various hardware, conversations I've had with performance experts, vendors and manufacturers, comments made by other members, general feelings expressed by those present at the dyno and at the track and my own previous experiences. So, I want there to be no misunderstanding: what I'm about to say are my own opinions. The only facts we have are the numbers above. You are invited to draw your own conclusions, however I suggest you do so with care and attempt to realize the only thing we can know for sure is what the numbers show for this particular group of variables.
The results are simple. Aftermarket intakes for my 2005 Magnum RT do not offer any benefit, and in fact can adversely affect performance. This statement holds true for both pre as well as post exhaust results.
I've carefully checked and rechecked the numbers in the chart above. These numbers are accurate and I invite anyone so inclined to double-check me against the raw data you can download above. I highlighted in green the average that produced the highest hp and torque numbers. As you can see, these numbers were the result of a stock intake after a reset. However, it is extremely important to realize at this point that statistically speaking, these highlighted numbers represent no difference when compared to the stock intake before a reset, the Volant with no reset with fuse 17 installed, the Volant with no reset with fuse 17 removed and the Aircharger with no reset and fuse 17 removed..
To me, this is very important. It proves a number of key points:
1) Resetting the computer (PCM specifically) makes zero difference in WOT performance. Before the test, I gave the Volant over 500 miles to "burn in"; remember, Volant states 150 is sufficient. Also, I had over 2000 miles on the exhaust. The tests show that wiping the PCM of this "burn in" does not have any effect. IMHO, there in fact is no burn in.
2) Pulling fuse 17 does not affect performance.
3) Resetting the computer and/or pulling fuse 17 does not put the transmission into any sort of "limp mode".
4) The horsepower gains seen when comparing the pre and post exhaust results (approx 10hp) are solely do to the exhaust. The intakes make zero difference in either case.
These ascertains are bolstered by the runs made by MattRobertson and Calabahn after my tests. You'll find these numbers just under the first bold line in the chart. Two different cars, with two different intakes, both having thousands of miles on their respective exhausts and intakes showed little to no difference between themselves as well as when compared to all the data derived from my Magnum.
Now look at the Airaid. While statistically speaking the difference is minimal, you can see that this particular intake actually degraded performance. The only reason I can come up with for this is the relative filter size. It does appear slightly smaller and therefore might actually introduce a restriction. This, however, is just an observation on my part. In truth I do not have an explanation.
Lastly, take a look at the rewired numbers. This test was done because of the interest expressed here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=15895 After the rewire, the following was observed by those present:
1) There may have been a slightly smoother idle. The engine appeared to shake less. However, the difference within the car was not enough to be noticed.
2) The pitch of the engine seemed to raise. No hard core proof of that, but more than one person commented that, at idle the pitch seemed a touch higher.
3) Performance: yikes. Again while minimal, there was definitely a drop off in performance at WOT. For me, the smoother idle that may or may not exist in no way justifies this mod. Lower performance and a sure fire way to piss off your dealership equals a bad idea.
Oh yeah, one more thing: gotls1's Camaro is for real (results below the second line in the chart). Bob stated it was the best performance numbers he's seen on his dyno for a Camaro LS1. Watching that thing rev up and get stronger and stronger was a thrill. It's also important to realize it provided a sort of validation for the dyno itself. Gotls1 stated the last time she ran she got 369hp, but with a locked converter. To get 365 without the lock in 106 deg F weather most certainly should remove any concern that the dyno itself might have been an issue.
Well folks that's it. Take these results and use them as you see fit. I fully understand and expect there to be dissenting opinions and feelings. For me, however, this matter is closed. Until the two items I list below are addressed, I think we're basically stuck:
1) Nothing short of a full programmer is going to unlock this engine. Take a look at the ignition timing. We need a programmer that will allow us to advance that timing at WOT. Until we can do that, we are completely hamstrung.
2) New software for our transmissions. As you can see in the raw data, this transmission is just plain weird. It shifts differently from run to run. It downshifts at odd RPMs. The code inside the TCM kills performance between gears, apparently to smooth the shift and to limit stress on the gears (thanks Mercedes) ect…
I hope you've found this as educational as I have. When you boil it all away, these kinds of mods (exhaust and intake) are worth every penny if they help add to the experience of owning your LX. I love my Zoommers. Every time she fires up, I get this grin I can't hide. I love the way the K&N intake looks and sounds. I really enjoy popping that hood and showing off the Hemi and that purdy K&N under there. I take more pride in my Magnum because I know I've tweaked it to my tastes. For me, these reasons by themselves are enough to more than justify the purchase of the components. When a programmer becomes available, maybe then performance gains will help add to the value I've already got.
It was great hanging with the gang again, and meeting a couple of the young LX'ers (lil miss magnumdude and young Calabahn). We will be putting together another M&G soon, and yes it will be on a weekend so more of ya working stiff's can attend.
PS: We did make it to the track, but the temps prevented any real comparisons from being drawn from the previous Face Off. Track temps were right around 100degrees until 9pm when it "cooled" off to about 92. gotls1 made a run of 14.7 AND out 60'd a C5 Vette, but that was probably because he was sitting there spinning instead of movin down the track Lots of video was taken and hopefully we'll have that up for all to see soon. In the mean time, enjoy the pics below.
The CV Mobile ready to go
Shot of the dyno computer
During a swap. From left to right: Bob, CoolVanilla, MattRoberston, magnumdude, lil miss magnumdude, Calabahn
Kaps installing the stock intake. Hey nice shirt CV!
CV, MR, and Cala trying to figure out why these intakes aren't yielding 400+ hp….
MR's DarthHemi strapped down and ready to run.
Mmmm love Darth's grill.
Darth's always watching (anyone see the camera?)
Bob getting Calabahn's baby ready to run
Get 'er done! Calabahns' ready to roll!
Move over boys, its the ladies time to play