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Thread: New Battery

  1. #31
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    The vent tube is a rubber hose that comes up from the floor at the front end of the battery and has a right angle plastic fitting that plugs into the vent hole. My replacement battery had vent holes at the back and front, and of course the wrong one was plugged. I had to extract the plug with a corkscrew and put it in the other hole.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisher69 View Post
    Nope, won't matter one bit to leave it unhooked for an hour or even more. Just don't close your trunk or you'll be crawling through the back seat to pull the escape latch lol

    The vent is at the top on the back side. It's just a little plastic 90 with a tube going through the bottom of the car. You'll see it when you take the B+ cable off. Just pop it off and don't forget to snap it into the new battery.
    Applying 12 V to the engine fuse box will allow the trunk to be opened with key or push button release.
    2006 Charger RT, Stroked to 392, Novi 1500 @ 5.5 psi, Getrag 3.06, 11.8 @ 117 mph, Daily Driven
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoyo View Post
    Applying 12 V to the engine fuse box will allow the trunk to be opened with key or push button release.
    That works great if you have a jump box, I don't lol

  4. #34
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    Jump box maybe, but my battery minder wouldn't do anything because it has to see battery to know what charge profile to use. That trunk crawl is not my favorite.

  5. #35
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    Great thread. 16 Charger battery is a few months past 5 years old. I have been mistreating it since COVID. Short infrequent drives without enough time to recharge. I'm heading to AutoZone tomorrow for my $169 punishment.

    Even with perfect treatment, almost all batteries lose capacity and add internal resistance with age. I'm hopeful for LTO (lithium titanate) to replace lead acid at some point but the chemistry doesn't support the right voltage to get exactly 12 volts. 5 cells is too low and 6 cells is too high(voltage). This chemistry is safer than li-ion and very abuse tolerant. Lifepo4 is safest but would be difficult to work in cold weather as charging below 0C is almost instant death. Some new Lifepo4 batteries use built in heaters to mitigate this issue.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rod Joe View Post
    Great thread. 16 Charger battery is a few months past 5 years old. I have been mistreating it since COVID. Short infrequent drives without enough time to recharge. I'm heading to AutoZone tomorrow for my $169 punishment.

    Even with perfect treatment, almost all batteries lose capacity and add internal resistance with age. I'm hopeful for LTO (lithium titanate) to replace lead acid at some point but the chemistry doesn't support the right voltage to get exactly 12 volts. 5 cells is too low and 6 cells is too high(voltage). This chemistry is safer than li-ion and very abuse tolerant. Lifepo4 is safest but would be difficult to work in cold weather as charging below 0C is almost instant death. Some new Lifepo4 batteries use built in heaters to mitigate this issue.
    Actually, future vehicle technology will be on the order of 56+ volts. Lots of efficiency increases across the board, not the least of which higher voltage means lower current operation.

    I'm curious why you think lithium titanate would be the chemistry of choice...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rod Joe View Post
    I'm hopeful for LTO (lithium titanate) to replace lead acid at some point but the chemistry doesn't support the right voltage to get exactly 12 volts. 5 cells is too low and 6 cells is too high(voltage). This chemistry is safer than li-ion and very abuse tolerant. Lifepo4 is safest but would be difficult to work in cold weather as charging below 0C is almost instant death. Some new Lifepo4 batteries use built in heaters to mitigate this issue.
    I wouldn't use a different type of battery than OEM, except an AGM. Even on cars with AGM original batteries you're not supposed to substitute a lead acid because of the different charging characteristics. Battery chargers have separate switch settings for Conventional and AGM. Those other batteries you mention would have even more different voltages and characteristics that your charging system is designed for. Just my opinion, but maybe you have better data.

  8. #38
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    The higher voltage is a long time coming. It's a great idea but safety favors 24 volts or lower systems.

    LTO has some advantages over some of the other chemistries. Low resistance, high charge and discharge rates, no Cobalt, low temp operation, and high cycle life. It may even have a long calendar life but that's all extrapolated data for now. The specific energy is not up there with some of the other technologies but is still better than our current starting batteries. I think LTO uses Nickel on the cathode which keep the price high.

    I'm not a fan of laptop batteries for automotive use. Tesla is making it work but the pack is complex with liquid required for thermal reasons. Also, until he can get the Cobalt out of his(Pasosonics) cells, human rights activists will be on his back.
    I like the safety of Lifepo4 for my own projects because it is much less likely to burn my house down. The specific energy is less than lipo but not that far off. I built a pack for my lawnmower 10 years ago and ran the pack from 100 to `5% SOC hundreds of times. That pack is still around 85% of it's original capacity. A123 had some great pouch cells.

    What do you think will be the FLA replacement chemistry? Solid state looks promising but is a decade away from breaking into the market.

  9. #39
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    AutoZone had the battery in stock and the swap was really easy. That was the cleanest dead battery I ever pulled out of a car. It was almost 6 years old.

    I found the positive terminal rather loose for my liking on the factory battery. I wonder if it was caused by the accident when the car got rear ended or by the body shop. No reason for them to disconnect the battery to replace the rear bumper, right?

    Suddenly, my remote start works again. I wonder if the computer prevents remote starting with a marginal battery. These cars have many nannies that might not get advertised. I once remote started in a closed garage by mistake and it automatically shutdown within a minute or two. How would the computer know?

  10. #40
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    Here is the battery charger I use: Optima 400
    DIGITAL 400 | OPTIMA Batteries

    I wonder.. a lot of people are not discussing the use of the battery when the car is not running. Sound system cranked with car not running maybe.
    What kind of load of what time period? Especially if car is not driven often to cycle the battery charge.
    How about short drives with AC also running? Time to charge while driving is important also. Juts the cranking action is quite a draw that takes time to recharge what was used.

    Plus I have my battery load tested once a year. I have had at least 2 separate times when I had a battery barely turn the engine over like it was near dead. Then try again when the car was cooler (or battery cooler) and it would start right up.
    You take the battery to the auto parts store, he puts his meter on it and it is near 13V, they say battery is fine. The problem is due to an internal short, it can't make the current.
    ONLY a battery load tester will find this fault.
    Last edited by netnathan; 02-14-2021 at 07:37 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rod Joe View Post
    The higher voltage is a long time coming. It's a great idea but safety favors 24 volts or lower systems.

    LTO has some advantages over some of the other chemistries. Low resistance, high charge and discharge rates, no Cobalt, low temp operation, and high cycle life. It may even have a long calendar life but that's all extrapolated data for now. The specific energy is not up there with some of the other technologies but is still better than our current starting batteries. I think LTO uses Nickel on the cathode which keep the price high.

    I'm not a fan of laptop batteries for automotive use. Tesla is making it work but the pack is complex with liquid required for thermal reasons. Also, until he can get the Cobalt out of his(Pasosonics) cells, human rights activists will be on his back.
    I like the safety of Lifepo4 for my own projects because it is much less likely to burn my house down. The specific energy is less than lipo but not that far off. I built a pack for my lawnmower 10 years ago and ran the pack from 100 to `5% SOC hundreds of times. That pack is still around 85% of it's original capacity. A123 had some great pouch cells.

    What do you think will be the FLA replacement chemistry? Solid state looks promising but is a decade away from breaking into the market.
    It's not the voltage that's harmful, it the current :^)

    I use a lot of Li-poly (bag cells) / Ion (hard case) in my other hobby / sport. The bag cells are potentially way more dangerous if not properly used or just as importantly, properly stored (really dislike sitting idle and fully charged). Hence why EVs must use thousands of hard-cased 18650 cells arranged in series / parallel. Liquid cooling is just a fact of life with such tightly-packed configurations and so many cells.

    One of the new technologies uses Lithium / iron which looks to be the next breakthrough level of watts / Kg, really fast charge and service life in EVs..


    Quote Originally Posted by netnathan View Post
    Here is the battery charger I use: Optima 400
    DIGITAL 400 | OPTIMA Batteries

    I wonder.. a lot of people are not discussing the use of the battery when the car is not running. Sound system cranked with car not running maybe.
    What kind of load of what time period? Especially if car is not driven often to cycle the battery charge.
    How about short drives with AC also running? Time to charge while driving is important also. Juts the cranking action is quite a draw that takes time to recharge what was used.

    Plus I have my battery load tested once a year. I have had at least 2 separate times when I had a battery barely turn the engine over like it was near dead. Then try again when the car was cooler (or battery cooler) and it would start right up.
    You take the battery to the auto parts store, he puts his meter on it and it is near 13V, they say battery is fine. The problem is due to an internal short, it can't make the current.
    ONLY a battery load tester will find this fault.
    In post #8, I eluded to end-users as the main source of premature battery failures :^D

    Its worth noting Nathan that while the engine is running, the battery charge process or rate-of-charge is not affected by other loads like A/C, lights, etcetera. As you suggest, drives that are so short so as to not allow proper recharge can be an issue. Really cold weather is a huge issue, as the battery's ability to accept current that was quickly drained during the start-process, goes down significantly(!) as the battery's internal resistance increases (called charge acceptance).

  12. #42
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    When you say lithium Iron I think you are referring to LifePo4. This chemistry has a lower theoretical specific energy compared to Lipo or the latest 18650 type cells. Commercially available cells are approaching 200wh/kg. The biggest advantage to Lifepo4 (lithium iron phosphate) is the safety and they typically can run 2000- 5000 cycles to a very deep discharge before the lose 20% of their capacity. The LTO cells are promising 10x that cycle life. 20k cycles, cycled once a day is over 50 years. I won't be around to see those cells die.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rod Joe View Post
    When you say lithium Iron I think you are referring to LifePo4. This chemistry has a lower theoretical specific energy compared to Lipo or the latest 18650 type cells. Commercially available cells are approaching 200wh/kg. The biggest advantage to Lifepo4 (lithium iron phosphate) is the safety and they typically can run 2000- 5000 cycles to a very deep discharge before the lose 20% of their capacity. The LTO cells are promising 10x that cycle life. 20k cycles, cycled once a day is over 50 years. I won't be around to see those cells die.
    ​You bet; it is likely to be first to market...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rod Joe View Post
    AutoZone had the battery in stock and the swap was really easy. That was the cleanest dead battery I ever pulled out of a car. It was almost 6 years old.

    I found the positive terminal rather loose for my liking on the factory battery. I wonder if it was caused by the accident when the car got rear ended or by the body shop. No reason for them to disconnect the battery to replace the rear bumper, right?

    Suddenly, my remote start works again. I wonder if the computer prevents remote starting with a marginal battery. These cars have many nannies that might not get advertised. I once remote started in a closed garage by mistake and it automatically shutdown within a minute or two. How would the computer know?

    The way the battery is held in place with a strap is not very secure and allows it to move backwards and forwards in the tray. It could have shifted back when you were rear ended. Was the clamp loose on the post, or the post loose on the battery?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisher69 View Post
    That works great if you have a jump box, I don't lol
    I used a set of jumper cables connected to the new battery and the under hood connection points. Had to do this on my son's car a few weeks later..
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