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Thread: Water pumps

  1. #31
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    If you don't go that far from home, run to failure may be the right philosophy. But, if you take long trips, maybe a little preventive maintenance outside the normal stuff is good. One reason I don't do more preventive maintenance parts replacements is so many parts now are substandard.
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  2. #32
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    212K. There were no signs of leaking, but this was after the dealership swapped out the engine. The part failed post install of the new long block assembly.

  3. #33
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    I have a 2005 rt magnum with 166,000 on it. Where can I get a 440 block as you did ? thanks in advance > Bill

  4. #34
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    I guess there really is no right answer. It is a different philosophy on each hand so now I'm really f---ing confused. No just kidding I am curious to know about the gasket behind the water pump that Hemissary spoke of is that the cover over the timing gear and chain?

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemissary View Post


    Note that it is well-known that the timing chain tensioner assembly has demonstrated premature failure on many engines. I strongly recommend replacement, especially(!0 if it is a 5.7 engine with a 6.1 unit (has one extra leaf spring) every single time the timing cover is removed.


    Hemissary, I've not seen a recommended mileage for replacement of the tensioner or chain on the 5.7 (I assume mine has the standard tensioner, since I've owned it since almost new, and haven't changed it) - what is the recommendation for doing that, and should the chain be replaced as well?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CURLY View Post
    I guess there really is no right answer. It is a different philosophy on each hand so now I'm really f---ing confused. No just kidding I am curious to know about the gasket behind the water pump that Hemissary spoke of is that the cover over the timing gear and chain?

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    Try and resist the urge to waste money on a baseless notion that somehow you're doing yourself a favor by replacing parts that are demonstrating their serviceability.

    Quote Originally Posted by RDT View Post
    Hemissary, I've not seen a recommended mileage for replacement of the tensioner or chain on the 5.7 (I assume mine has the standard tensioner, since I've owned it since almost new, and haven't changed it) - what is the recommendation for doing that, and should the chain be replaced as well?
    Tough to answer. I know that if I open up the front of my engine I will be carefully inspecting up close the modifications I performed in order to deal with what I believe is first based on engine rpm changes that causes the main tensioner assembly to flex that then causes the end of the leaf spring fingers to dig into the bottom NYLON stops / retainers molded into the tensioner. Eventually, the leaf springs work through and drop down causing the upper fingers to depart their(!) securing stops.

    Once this happens dynamic chain tension is significantly less or zero, exacerbating the flexing action due to chain whip. The leaf springs, now loose and able to disassociate themselves from the tensioner then get caught in the chain / lower crankshaft drive gear that destroys them. This action puts an increased (unknown magnitude) load on both front cam / crank bearing interfaces as (spring steel) leaf spring debris is compressed between the chain and the gear assembly.

    I've had someone else's engine apart that has experienced this failure mode. At least on that engine's bearing interfaces, there was no visible or measureable changes. So it appears to be enough chain slack - once the tensioner fails - to absorb the loading when leaf spring debris is broken up by the chain / gear interface.

    Aftermarket camshafts with significantly more aggressive ramps and lift vectors automatically increases flexing at the tensioner. This accelerates those leaf springs ability to cut into their bottom stops.

    The question is why some engines modded or not modded (untouched OEM engines) - might or might not experience this type of failure mode. The main uncontrolled variables are spring steel leaf spring Quality Control (proper percentage of low manganese / medium to high carbon steel alloys, proper heat treating, curvature versus loading), aftermarket camshafts that exacerbate the issue, where in the rpm range engines spend most of their time (idle / lumpy idle being the worst case scenario).

    As to chain wear; under normal circumstance is a non-issue. OEM camshaft chains are over-built to start with, especially given they are turning a camshaft with rollers. A long time ago I saw someone try to explain away a used chain that would become stiff and / or jam up when flexed in the opposite direct to normal operation. That in very simple terms is grossly misleading. So the chain along with drive / driven gears should be fine.

    If you have the timing cover off for any reason, I suggest looking VERY closely at the leaf springs and where they are captured by the NYLON tensioner. If you see any evidence of NYLON material being carved out, replace it. Note that you can remove the leaf springs from the tensioner to have a proper looksee.

    Otherwise, given the known issues / failures with pre-08' tensioners, replace the entire tensioner assembly.

    I cant tell you when. Its more difficult when it is a lengthy process to inspect. I modified my timing cover to allow me to look inside anytime I want with a boroscope: GEN III Inspection Ports (so far - so good).
    Last edited by Hemissary; 05-25-2019 at 09:02 PM.
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  7. #37
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    This thread is exactly why I don't even ask questions. The water pump is $85 for one made in china, or you could probably order an OEM one from the dealer thats probably made in china also but two or three times the price and they don't have it in stock.

    It's amazing how stupid education can make people. Can't stay focused on the "should I replace the water pump" part, we just have to go off on how "we" do it in the aerospace industry and "our" theories.

    How about referring to the automotive industry, since it is, well, a car we're talking about.

  8. #38
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    Yeah the ridiculousness is mind boggling. I wonder why the car manufactures haven't figured out that they can start sending out "proven" parts, for warranty, stripped from wrecked junkyard cars. These are surely better than the expensive new parts they are currently installing! Why are they supplying new intake gaskets etc on their warranty jobs?

    The reality is that the car manufacturers install cheap parts so that the majority are expected to last, only as long as the warranty is in place, with an acceptable, and expected, defect rate. The cheap water pump bearings fail and the lip seals in the pumps fail. Fact. Who knows when either will occur. Some people drive their new car off the lot and never have any problems. Others are back at the dealer for repairs weekly.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay727 View Post
    This thread is exactly why I don't even ask questions. The water pump is $85 for one made in china, or you could probably order an OEM one from the dealer thats probably made in china also but two or three times the price and they don't have it in stock.

    It's amazing how stupid education can make people. Can't stay focused on the "should I replace the water pump" part, we just have to go off on how "we" do it in the aerospace industry and "our" theories.

    How about referring to the automotive industry, since it is, well, a car we're talking about.
    The guy asked for opinions and that is what he got. There is no "correct" answer, just opinions.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockhound View Post
    Yeah the ridiculousness is mind boggling. I wonder why the car manufactures haven't figured out that they can start sending out "proven" parts, for warranty, stripped from wrecked junkyard cars. These are surely better than the expensive new parts they are currently installing! Why are they supplying new intake gaskets etc on their warranty jobs?

    The reality is that the car manufacturers install cheap parts so that the majority are expected to last, only as long as the warranty is in place, with an acceptable, and expected, defect rate. The cheap water pump bearings fail and the lip seals in the pumps fail. Fact. Who knows when either will occur. Some people drive their new car off the lot and never have any problems. Others are back at the dealer for repairs weekly.

    Irrational and hyperbole.

  11. #41
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    ....i'd buy a Cabin Air Filter SHRUG

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay727 View Post
    This thread is exactly why I don't even ask questions. The water pump is $85 for one made in china, or you could probably order an OEM one from the dealer thats probably made in china also but two or three times the price and they don't have it in stock.

    It's amazing how stupid education can make people. Can't stay focused on the "should I replace the water pump" part, we just have to go off on how "we" do it in the aerospace industry and "our" theories.

    How about referring to the automotive industry, since it is, well, a car we're talking about.
    Please...don't learn anything...keep your head in the sand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockhound View Post
    Yeah the ridiculousness is mind boggling. I wonder why the car manufactures haven't figured out that they can start sending out "proven" parts, for warranty, stripped from wrecked junkyard cars. These are surely better than the expensive new parts they are currently installing! Why are they supplying new intake gaskets etc on their warranty jobs?

    The reality is that the car manufacturers install cheap parts so that the majority are expected to last, only as long as the warranty is in place, with an acceptable, and expected, defect rate. The cheap water pump bearings fail and the lip seals in the pumps fail. Fact. Who knows when either will occur. Some people drive their new car off the lot and never have any problems. Others are back at the dealer for repairs weekly.
    Sticking with dated / jaded logic and refusing to learn something / anything new appears to be your repertoire as well. This is confirmed by your baseless innuendo that Car Manufacturers deliberately produce parts that last only as long as the warranty :^)
    Last edited by Hemissary; 05-21-2019 at 10:49 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemissary View Post
    Sticking with dated / jaded logic and refusing to learn something / anything new appears to be your repertoire as well. This is confirmed by your baseless innuendo that Car Manufacturers deliberately produce parts that last only as long as the warranty :^)
    The same can be said for you. Dropped valve seats are only a very minor thing and not a serious issue, however because you have had a timing chain failure, suddenly it is a pandemic. As well, my belief that car manufacturers deliberately produce parts that last only as long as the warranty is not at all baseless. It is demonstrated by them all. If these were top notch parts we would all be driving around cars with 20year 500,000mile warranties. It is the simplest of logic that eludes you.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay727 View Post
    Please spew your bull**** in the right classroom.
    That's funny coming from a dolt that "rebuilt" his engine, reused his intake, didn't replace bearings, only replaced the damaged piston - then pissed and moaned because it grenaded again.


  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockhound View Post
    The same can be said for you. Dropped valve seats are only a very minor thing and not a serious issue, however because you have had a timing chain failure, suddenly it is a pandemic. As well, my belief that car manufacturers deliberately produce parts that last only as long as the warranty is not at all baseless. It is demonstrated by them all. If these were top notch parts we would all be driving around cars with 20year 500,000mile warranties. It is the simplest of logic that eludes you.
    As done so eloquently pointed out; Irrational and hyperbole - this time adding gross exaggeration

    Last edited by Hemissary; 05-21-2019 at 01:01 PM.

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