Manton Pushrods

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  1. #1
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    Dec 2013
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    Consistency In Bracket Racing

    Hello folks! I've come to the point where the computer in this '13 challenger is the one thing most holding me back from turning on more win lights. The car will run consistent and then it suddenly picks up or slows down with no change in weather or anything else. The computer decided, based on data it was receiving, to suddenly make a change when everything on the outside seemed just like the previous run as far as conditions, burnout, etc.

    So, my question to any and all of you is: what have you done to try and outsmart the computers in these cars in order to make them more consistent at the track, resulting in weather being the biggest factor in changing ET's (the ideal situation). As an example, I have a buddy who had added a second air intake sensor that got positioned just in front of the front grill, making it so it read ambient air instead of air under the hood. A toggle switch let him go back and forth between the primary and secondary sensor. I don't know if that would help my car or not, but that's the sort of stuff I'm looking for - unconventional, outside-of-the-box ideas to try and get around a computer that basically amounts to a helicopter parent. Of course, more basic ideas are welcome also - I wouldn't dare claim to have tried everything so far. I have a diablo tuner, I don't know if there is much there that can help, unless people have had success in this area with reducing timing, etc. Knock does not seem to be an issue for me, so anything meant to reduce knock will likely not be the answer for me. I'm also on a tight budget, so I'm looking for the clever/crafty ideas, not the ideas that require buying a whole new PCM or EFI system or anything. Thank you in advance for any suggestions, especially if you've tried it with success already. : )
    I'm Chris. Most people call me Burton.

    Current: '13 Challenger R/T; Auto; Factory Limited Slip; LMI True CAI; Diablosport DCX (tuned by Johan); Flowmaster 40 Series; Hurst Roll Control
    Past: '08 Charger R/T; Auto; LMI True CAI; Diablosport In-Tune (tuned by Johan); Flowmaster 60 Series; SLP Line Lock




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    If you have a tuner then the computer should do what’s its told at wot and not change much.


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    There are always factors that change. The amount of water in the box, the amount of traction compound on the line, the amount of rubber on the track/ track prep.

    I'd be willing to bet that those factors (which you have no control over) are having more to do with inconsistency than the car itself.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Old Hickory, TN
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    Several questions:

    What do you call inconsistency.

    Are you relatively stock.

    Are you running street tires

    How do you control ECT and IAT temperatures at the starting line.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by done View Post
    Several questions:

    What do you call inconsistency.

    Are you relatively stock.

    Are you running street tires

    How do you control ECT and IAT temperatures at the starting line.

    I'm talking about that fluke run where the car suddenly picks up or slows down on a pass when other cars did not, or a consistent weather pattern and starting line routine and an ET that bounces around between a tenth when others are consistent. It's the problem of a street car with factory computer. And it's not that I see this as something wrong with the car itself, I'm saying I want to make it more consistent than it's supposed to be. I want to beat the computer if I can without damaging the motor.

    Relatively. Tuned by Johan, Flowmaster mufflers, LMI True CAI, Line lock.

    MT S/S 275's

    By routine only. Car cools fairly quickly, I start and shut off on the way up to the line unless it's cold in which case I'll idle it for a minute or two, basically whatever I need to do to get it right at operating temp but not sitting at that temp for long. It's not at all precise, but I don't know that I see any evidence that it's causing any noticeable inconsistencies.

    I also data log every run, but really don't know what I'm looking for with most of the data. I check for knock, shift points, etc. Basic stuff. If there's anything specifically I should be looking at there let me know. Thanks!

  6. #6
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    Sep 2004
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    OK, it is not the car or the computer.

    You need to have control of the ECT at the starting line, you need to be at the same temp every time, I use 179* as the standard. I also have a fan override that allows the fans to run at any time I have the ignition on acc. Then you have to monitor the battery voltage in the EVIC to keep the voltage above 12.8.

    Don't get carried away with the burnout but do it the same way every time.

    As you approach the tree, light the top light and then bring up your RPM to the same speed every time and bump into the second bulb.. I use 1500 to get the best ET's.

    These are the procedures I have learned over 5,000 runs.

  7. #7
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    May 2017
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    This^
    However the way you run your car into the staging area may vary. My car on nitrous has some different requirements.
    I would say tires are your next biggest thing. Are you dead hooking every time or having to roll throttle? Rolling throttle does not equal consistency. Spinning (unless on a tire designed for it) does not equal consistency.
    There are plenty of people running very consistently with stock computers. I would argue more people running “stock” computers than aftermarket setups in braket racing. Consistency can be done and doesn’t need to be achieved with a bunch of gimmicky things and tricks.
    I will say the biggest thing I learned with my car is it does not like to be cold. It wants the temps at operational levels or above. I have ran faster times hot lapping than sitting and letting the car cool (most times).


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Curtisville PA
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    Agree with done. I get the car warm or heat soaked every pass same temp. I usually bump into the second light around 1700 or 2k rpm.
    Mine:2012 Challenger Rt, Diablo, long tubes, Fti 3800 stall 12.[email protected] / [email protected] 125 shot
    Dads:2012 Challenger Rt-6.4L swap, procharger. [email protected]

  9. #9
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    Dec 2012
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    Ajax Ontario Canada
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    I agree with the above.
    When I was racing I always kept the car hot. I could not control how cold I could get it.

    I had a set routine from burnout box to fully staged.

    Can you post a couple time slips where it changed a tenth ? I just want to see where the change was.

  10. #10
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    I have had it change 5-600ths even if it was hot. Last time out I was fortunate enough to cut the tree down. I ran in a no box class against full race cars. 48 entered I got to final 4 I could hear ppl saying I can’t believe that cars still in this.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Btp 2332 View Post
    Agree with done. I get the car warm or heat soaked every pass same temp. I usually bump into the second light around 1700 or 2k rpm.
    You need to pick one or the other, I recommend 1700.

  12. #12
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    I do pick one or the other. Depends what I’m doing on the light or track prep what I leave at.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by done View Post
    OK, it is not the car or the computer.

    You need to have control of the ECT at the starting line, you need to be at the same temp every time, I use 179* as the standard. I also have a fan override that allows the fans to run at any time I have the ignition on acc. Then you have to monitor the battery voltage in the EVIC to keep the voltage above 12.8.

    Don't get carried away with the burnout but do it the same way every time.

    As you approach the tree, light the top light and then bring up your RPM to the same speed every time and bump into the second bulb.. I use 1500 to get the best ET's.

    These are the procedures I have learned over 5,000 runs.
    Thanks, Done. I have about 1/5th the amount of passes that you have so I appreciate the experience/knowledge that you have.

    My routine is always the same, as far as staging, burnout, etc. For the burnout I spin the wheels for about 1-2 seconds, then release the line lock and keep the burnout going as I roll up. For staging, I pre-stage, load up to 1600, and bump in to stage.

    Questions: With your fan override, you can come back from a pass, shut the car down and still run the fans? Did you throw an aftermarket coolant temp gauge in, or how are you so precise with what temp you keep it at? Also, I don't have a voltage reading in my evic (and have often wondered why). How important is that?

    My time between passes varies depending on what round it is, and can be anywhere from 60 minutes (or longer on a Summit ET race) to 10 minutes in the last 2-3 rounds on a Wednesday. If you don't have time to bring the temp down to what you need, do you know how to change your dial accordingly (e.g. it's at 190, so I'll dial up .0X)?

    Thanks!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyBurton View Post
    Thanks, Done. I have about 1/5th the amount of passes that you have so I appreciate the experience/knowledge that you have.

    My routine is always the same, as far as staging, burnout, etc. For the burnout I spin the wheels for about 1-2 seconds, then release the line lock and keep the burnout going as I roll up. For staging, I pre-stage, load up to 1600, and bump in to stage.

    Questions: With your fan override, you can come back from a pass, shut the car down and still run the fans? Did you throw an aftermarket coolant temp gauge in, or how are you so precise with what temp you keep it at? Also, I don't have a voltage reading in my evic (and have often wondered why). How important is that?

    Yes, my fans are running between rounds with the engine off.

    I do have an Ultra Gauge installed, but you can also get the ECT in the EVIC on the same page with the battery voltage. How far it cools will depend on the ambient temps, but the objective is to launch between 177 and 179.



    My time between passes varies depending on what round it is, and can be anywhere from 60 minutes (or longer on a Summit ET race) to 10 minutes in the last 2-3 rounds on a Wednesday. If you don't have time to bring the temp down to what you need, do you know how to change your dial accordingly (e.g. it's at 190, so I'll dial up .0X)?

    I never have to launch over 179, so I never dial up on ECT. DA changes, yes. On an 1/8 track, the temp at the end of the run is always in the 183 to 186 range. I can get the ECT down in less than 10 minutes as the cooling starts on the run off and the return road. On really cool days, I will run the engine to avoid staging below 170.

    Thanks!
    This my racing control center.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    I ran a 2015 Scat Pack a8 stock except for drag radials. I had the same issue as you during the race, The car would drop 04-05 for no apparent reason in any round. Then go back to normal the next. My guess is that is was something to do with the traction control but was never able to confirm. When it dropped the 60' was consistent but the drop carried through all increments. I always ran the car fully hot 215 water, oil, and trans. Did a small burnout then shallow staged off idle off the second yellow. I adjusted my RT by rear tire pressure. Rear pressure varied 15lbs to 22lbs. Normally would start out at 17 cold then drop a pound to slow my reaction or add to speed it up. Off idle gave me the option of lifting my foot off the gas to slow my RT by .020. I would normally hold .07-1.2 in 1/8 mile racing and drive the stripe. I always kept the gas to the floor (as it would shift into the next gear on a lift) and pump the brakes after the 330 marker making 5-6 adjustments approaching the finish.
    Likes Niner, HeyBurton liked this post

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