PDA

View Full Version : Twin Turbo 392" 9 Second Build!



CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 01:30 AM
Gentleman, I am looking for a top level performance shop that has the experience and qualifications to bring my build to the next level! I am running a blown stroker w/ N20, the rest of the drivetrain is being concluded to handle the massive HP that will be thrown at it! Cage will be installed next week! At this point I have a 392" shorttblock getting built, the heads and cam can be made to order for this set up! Stu at Inertia is the engine builder, car will be delivered wherever needed from Ct. to Florida. TI'm not sure if a kit is availible, or, turbo can be fabricated from off the shelf parts?:spock:

Paywithdeath
05-08-2010, 02:01 AM
I cant believe you. You have lost your mind todd. I wish i had yout check book.

MadCharger
05-08-2010, 06:57 AM
PM Ujokin2 or Jack SickSRT. Starr Motors in Virginia has done some pretty big builds - including Big Al's 9 second Twin Turbo Challenger.....

Coopers_Dad
05-08-2010, 07:00 AM
Wow Todd what a monster! Congrats on following your dreams bud!

legmaker
05-08-2010, 07:06 AM
PM Ujokin2 or Jack SickSRT. Starr Motors in Virginia has done some pretty big builds - including Big Al's 9 second Twin Turbo Challenger.....


i was thinking the same thing...........

considering todds locale, and what he is wanting to build, might be a good fit.

CT-MSRT
05-08-2010, 08:18 AM
now that is going to be insane. Get that thing down to VA. Only off the shelf kit is the Hellion really. For the level your going to, a custom setup might be in order.

J-Z
05-08-2010, 08:55 AM
Andy"s building a pretty bad a$$ twin turbo charger. He might be able to help Ya out. PM Justin.

1FST4DR
05-08-2010, 09:01 AM
Best of luck to ya :)

jsjahonda(big BK
05-08-2010, 09:02 AM
they are right Todd, Ujokin2 & Big AL are the one to talk to, they are super guys. I will be waiting for this to be done, good luck my friend

hemituner
05-08-2010, 09:30 AM
Todd:
This is the twin Turbo Jeep we just built here in NJ in a joint project between Arrington and My chassis builder. We are looking to do a car next.http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40615&highlight=sneek+peek
A.J.

SLICKHER1
05-08-2010, 10:16 AM
Just put a Hellion kit on it and be done.

ujokin2
05-08-2010, 10:22 AM
Just put a Hellion kit on it and be done.

X2 to what he said... its out there... its a bolt on... and it makes it much easier to work on... than alot of custom setups which can become a royal pain when work has to be done on the car.

Edit: I have been told that the Hellion "may" not have the Dreaded Turbo Lag..... Not saying that it will or will not... but currently everyone that has one has to deal with it. By the time you get around to your build.. there may be something out there for the Mopars. Currently there is only prototypes in the test phase.

CHARGERTREV
05-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Dump the TT and go with a BIG single :)

Either way, going to be a MONSTER!

Best of luck

05-08-2010, 11:31 AM
I've done alot of custom twin turbo builds. I have three mustangs here I'm doing them for now. I also have a Challenger I'm doing a custom twin 88mm build on also. This is a full race setup tho, not a street car.
You can eliminate/reduce lag with the proper A/R setup. I have 281 cubic inch engines running twin 57mm turbo's with very minimum lag. A 392 could even run a larger turbo with the proper a/r to reduce lag dramatically.

I'll post picks up of the mustang I have here that we mounted the turbo's in the fog light location. I have a lot of turbo experience on various cars. My latest Dodge project is a twin 76mm viper truck. I'll get pics of it as well.

ujokin2
05-08-2010, 12:12 PM
I've done alot of custom twin turbo builds. I have three mustangs here I'm doing them for now. I also have a Challenger I'm doing a custom twin 88mm build on also. This is a full race setup tho, not a street car.
You can eliminate/reduce lag with the proper A/R setup. I have 281 cubic inch engines running twin 57mm turbo's with very minimum lag. A 392 could even run a larger turbo with the proper a/r to reduce lag dramatically.

I'll post picks up of the mustang I have here that we mounted the turbo's in the fog light location. I have a lot of turbo experience on various cars. My latest Dodge project is a twin 76mm viper truck. I'll get pics of it as well.


Well dang we been fighting this for a bit now... As you know the Challenger is a bit heavier .... so comparison to Mustangs may not be the same ...again given what you all have accomplished so far and all the resources you have to tackle this... there will be
some folks anxiously awaiting your results.

SamySnead
05-08-2010, 12:21 PM
The only recommendation I have is just buying a kit (read: Hellion kit). Too much goes into making a custom setup especially creating an oiling system for the turbos since these cars have absolutely no room for anything extra. If youre lowered at all, then kiss the low-mount/bigger turbos idea goodbye.

Every month its something different though. Turbo, turbos, 8-71, KB, etc. Whats wrong with just the Procharger/nitrous idea? That will surely get you to low numbers.

USCG Charger
05-08-2010, 02:06 PM
There are quite a few custom shops from VA to NJ....that can build u a single or twin turbo set up for ur 300... If it was me I'd put a 106MM on it. Thats what I plan on doing with my A body.. looking for 8's though... not sure these cars with all the weight issues can handle going that fast without other issues coming to the surface.

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 02:53 PM
From Magnum RT05Every month its something different though. Turbo, turbos, 8-71, KB, etc. Whats wrong with just the Procharger/nitrous idea?That will surely get you to low numbers.
First off, the Pro Charger is limited in how much HP, every F1 I read about has major issues, and just sits in the shop! the KB don't have a kit availible, I've made 20 calls at least, The installer in Cali, KB suggested, don't respond,return calls? or, I'd have a KB in my garage! The 8-71 is something I really want, however, they seem to have cooling issues! I drive my car a good deal, lot of differant towns, the police in CT. would have the car inpounded with a blower that large sticking out! so, Turbo it is, really sourcing at this point to see what will really work well, Like I said, I have a motor getting built , I wany a DD that is in the 9's . I dont get why you seemed agitated, you don't like my posts, don't read them, before I drop another $$,$$$.$$ I damm sure will post the hell out of this forum, it is for light recreation.

bmeyer40
05-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Why not run a D-1R procharger head or F-2M?

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 03:44 PM
have a D-1

JimIsland-SRT8
05-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Todd, everyone that I know that has done Turbos on an LX, have gone through a lot of trial and error and of course, heartache. However, you should be in a much better position because of that. You might want to talk to Al about the daily driveability of his 9 sec. car if thats important to you.
I'm not trying to deter you...hell, I would love that set-up. I'm just not sure if we're "there" yet to have TTs on a DD LX. Good luck and keep us posted.

HarryBallZ
05-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Since you're in Florida.... come up to Jacksonville and see Dwight at Stage 6 Motorports. They do custom kits. Ford GT's(not Mustangs, the Supercar), Vipers, Jeep SRT8 Single..... they are highly qualified and more than likely, cheaper than any other kits you'll get price wise.

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 04:42 PM
I'll be in Florida in a week or two, I'll give them a call.

SLICKHER1
05-08-2010, 05:56 PM
First off, the Pro Charger is limited in how much HP, every F1 I read about has major issues, and just sits in the shop! the KB don't have a kit availible, I've made 20 calls at least, The installer in Cali, KB suggested, don't respond,return calls? or, I'd have a KB in my garage! The 8-71 is something I really want, however, they seem to have cooling issues! I drive my car a good deal, lot of differant towns, the police in CT. would have the car inpounded with a blower that large sticking out! so, Turbo it is, really sourcing at this point to see what will really work well, Like I said, I have a motor getting built , I wany a DD that is in the 9's . I dont get why you seemed agitated, you don't like my posts, don't read them, before I drop another $$,$$$.$$ I damm sure will post the hell out of this forum, it is for light recreation.

How does KB not have a kit? As I said earlier, go with the Hellion kit and call it a day. Twin 59mm should be plenty to get your car into the 9's.

WitchyWndy
05-08-2010, 06:00 PM
First off, the Pro Charger is limited in how much HP, every F1 I read about has major issues, and just sits in the shop! the KB don't have a kit availible, I've made 20 calls at least, The installer in Cali, KB suggested, don't respond,return calls? or, I'd have a KB in my garage! The 8-71 is something I really want, however, they seem to have cooling issues! I drive my car a good deal, lot of differant towns, the police in CT. would have the car inpounded with a blower that large sticking out! so, Turbo it is, really sourcing at this point to see what will really work well, Like I said, I have a motor getting built , I wany a DD that is in the 9's . I dont get why you seemed agitated, you don't like my posts, don't read them, before I drop another $$,$$$.$$ I damm sure will post the hell out of this forum, it is for light recreation.

Todd, I don't think Richie was agitated. He asked a question that honestly first popped into my mind when I saw this thread. You have a pretty new build that is pretty darn fast and I was wondering why the change without seeing what you can do with your current setup. Anyway's, good luck.

motorhed66
05-08-2010, 06:21 PM
whatt ya gonna do with that there crappy D-1?

aslcharger08
05-08-2010, 06:35 PM
A 9 second DD? Man I gotta see this!

Paywithdeath
05-08-2010, 06:37 PM
Hes keeping the d1, i already tried lol

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 06:39 PM
I agree, I change my mind quick, I should have built to the hilt from the get go, I thought head-cam would be good, then the stroker, then Blower, Then???? I hear ya!

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 06:41 PM
A couple members already asked for first dibs on the D 1, IF THEY DON'T WANT IT, ITS FOR SALE.

Cam
05-08-2010, 06:42 PM
I agree, I change my mind quick, I should have built to the hilt from the get go, I thought head-cam would be good, then the stroker, then Blower, Then???? I hear ya!

You have issues...put the coffee down and walk away from the keyboard.







NOW! :loser:

SamySnead
05-08-2010, 06:44 PM
First off, the Pro Charger is limited in how much HP, every F1 I read about has major issues, and just sits in the shop! the KB don't have a kit availible, I've made 20 calls at least, The installer in Cali, KB suggested, don't respond,return calls? or, I'd have a KB in my garage! The 8-71 is something I really want, however, they seem to have cooling issues! I drive my car a good deal, lot of differant towns, the police in CT. would have the car inpounded with a blower that large sticking out! so, Turbo it is, really sourcing at this point to see what will really work well, Like I said, I have a motor getting built , I wany a DD that is in the 9's . I dont get why you seemed agitated, you don't like my posts, don't read them, before I drop another $$,$$$.$$ I damm sure will post the hell out of this forum, it is for light recreation.
I think you took it a different way than what I had intended. Your current setup has the potential to go 9s. Im not sure how difficult it would be, but what about changing to a Vortech YSi unit? I seem to keep coming back to this/Hemi~C, but its proven to make power, be reliable enough for a DD, and sounds great.

As someone who has gone through a custom twin TC70 turbo setup even before the Hellion kit came out, its a PITA to say the least. The kit seems to come with everything needed for a relatively simple install and trust me, you/the builder will be happy with that. No need to source oil pump(s), oil line, fittings, BOV, wastegates, clamps, bend/weld tubing, etc. Im trying to give you some good information here so you wont be going through a rough time and spend more than need be to reach your goal and be happy. Hellion has gone through the trials, errors, BS for you. Bolt it up and go and make more power than youll need to reach your goals.

CrazySRT8
05-08-2010, 06:44 PM
:thumbs_u:

Paywithdeath
05-08-2010, 06:48 PM
Whos got firsts on the d1?! I asked about it way back when it
said 8-71 coming mid 2010! Lol

Cam
05-08-2010, 06:49 PM
:thumbs_u:

:)

Todd, as suggested the Hellion kit would be your best bet. But get ready for some major fun tuning her. Running the KB set on kill isn't gonna work on a DD.

srt007
05-09-2010, 01:24 PM
all i gotta say is beltsssssss suckkkkkkkkkk! turbos allllllll theee wayyyy!

CrazySRT8
05-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Thanks gentleman, I already have discussed this with my tuner weeks ago, he will take care of whatever my decision is. Magnumrt05, sorry, took ya the wrong way. Nick, the D-1, we will talk.

1FST4DR
05-09-2010, 08:53 PM
I think you took it a different way than what I had intended. Your current setup has the potential to go 9s. Im not sure how difficult it would be, but what about changing to a Vortech YSi unit? I seem to keep coming back to this/Hemi~C, but its proven to make power, be reliable enough for a DD, and sounds great.

As someone who has gone through a custom twin TC70 turbo setup even before the Hellion kit came out, its a PITA to say the least. The kit seems to come with everything needed for a relatively simple install and trust me, you/the builder will be happy with that. No need to source oil pump(s), oil line, fittings, BOV, wastegates, clamps, bend/weld tubing, etc. Im trying to give you some good information here so you wont be going through a rough time and spend more than need be to reach your goal and be happy. Hellion has gone through the trials, errors, BS for you. Bolt it up and go and make more power than youll need to reach your goals.

Some good advice from a guy that has been through it.Good luck with the new build:thumbs_u:

Frozen_
05-10-2010, 11:18 AM
def talk to AJ(hemituner) this last turbo jeep he did is truly killer! amazing truck!

yambra
05-10-2010, 09:20 PM
I would also suggest the Hellion kit or talk to Tim at North Coast Turbo Systems about what he can do. Tim also has the iEMS3 and the PTFC so you can tune partial throttle boost. If you want to do something custom you obviously have that as an option too, just make sure to do your homework. I've done a lot of homework on turbos and before really knowing anything about them, you really don't know what you don't know. Definitely not simple. But I do prefer turbos over superchargers. Good luck! Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm FAR from knowing everything about turbos, but I'll do what I can to help.

Biig O
05-10-2010, 10:31 PM
What about this? Rear TT

http://www.ststurbo.com/home

Jack SickSRT
05-10-2010, 10:37 PM
Good Luck with your choice! As said before; You should Talk to Big Al. Not steering ya; knowing what hes gone through will help you! It ain't no bolt on and your done. Its BADAZZ ; But takes major up- keep...

PWR_Justin
05-10-2010, 10:45 PM
A kit is always going to be a much easier install than anything completly custom, and usualy cheaper unless you have the means to do all the fab and work yourself.

so another +1 on the hellion kit from this guy, something you can install in a day or two even without much mechanical know how.

also another options is the new race cog set up on a f-2 procharger (1600hp , 2700cfm), this is the route im taking anyways ;) probably wont be a very nice DD though hehe.

CrazySRT8
05-10-2010, 11:23 PM
I'm looking very closely at what move I'll make next, car gets dropped tommorrow for cage install ! after that, I want to have my 12 lb pulley put on, and, run the Nitrous, I have never even gotten the N20 tuned. I'm hoping I'll run low 10's then, I guess I'll see. Still havn't ruled out the 8-71, I am interested in alll these set ups! then again, business is scary , time willl tell, the car is ready, thats for sure.:blah:

05-11-2010, 12:39 AM
I would also suggest the Hellion kit or talk to Tim at North Coast Turbo Systems about what he can do. Tim also has the iEMS3 and the PTFC so you can tune partial throttle boost. If you want to do something custom you obviously have that as an option too, just make sure to do your homework. I've done a lot of homework on turbos and before really knowing anything about them, you really don't know what you don't know. Definitely not simple. But I do prefer turbos over superchargers. Good luck! Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm FAR from knowing everything about turbos, but I'll do what I can to help.

I appreciate the comments, but for the build he is planning, he is going to need more than I can provide via a single turbo system, even with the largest unit that I can physically fit. The LX chassis is challenged for space, and compromises are a part of any system out there. I have been working with turbo's on the Hemi since late 2005, so not much I have not seen first hand.

As far as tuning, the farther away from stock, the tuning becomes exponentially more challenging. Boost is boost, no matter if SC or turbo. Turbo's can be more of a challenge because the boost profile is broader, and not as predictable as an SC. Still I prefer a turbo as it gives me more control over boost. Air charge temps are one thing, but your combustion chamber temps are what will kill your engine, don't overlook them, and install a good quality EGT gauge as well as AFR, and vac/boost so you know what is going on.

I released the first production system over 4 years ago, and I made it as close to a fully integrated system as I could, and maybe it was too tame, everyone seems to pop for the more radical systems, even with the more drivability and tuning issues that come with more radical builds. Both my former 300C and my 08 Hemi Cherokee had near stock like drivability and none of the issues I commonly hear present with FI. 38,000 miles on the 300C and 28,000 on the Cherokee and never any issues, both all stock internals.

I have seen 700hp in the LX with a single turbo, and near 800 in an SRT-8 Cherokee with a BIG single. But I guess the twins are just more seductive even though they are almost 35% more in cost overall.

I am probably building out the last LX system I am going to build to go on my 2007 Heritage Edition 300C that I recently purchased. It will have all the latest changes and run a much bigger turbo than was on the original prototype in my former 300C. Plus I have a few tricks up my sleeve to try out.

I have always been the type to talk at length with people whether they buy something or not, so if questions, I love to talk FI, give me ring.

Stumbo
05-11-2010, 01:29 AM
Just a thought on this subject...

Why does everybody try to get the systems to fit in an otherwise stock bodied car? Surely you can modify the passenger floorboard/firewall a bit to fit a big single turbo over there... And with a big single turbo comes a single big pipe to run up to the big, single inter cooler.

Just a thought.... Thats what I would do anyways...

05-11-2010, 09:32 AM
Just a thought on this subject...

Why does everybody try to get the systems to fit in an otherwise stock bodied car? Surely you can modify the passenger floorboard/firewall a bit to fit a big single turbo over there... And with a big single turbo comes a single big pipe to run up to the big, single inter cooler.

Just a thought.... Thats what I would do anyways...

From what I see, the market wants an out of the box system that bolts on with no modifications to the vehicle chassis or major movement of equipment, is 800 to 1000 RWHP capable with stock like drivability, has the turbo mounted under the hood, yet still maintains stock clearance under the front cross member where the exhaust would have to run, complete with a maximized fail safe tune that works on every vehicle, and costs $4,500 shipped at the most.

That is the market reality that manufacturers face; it is just not possible to physically or financially create such a system. It costs money to play, and in this economy, everyone is watching their pennies, and rightfully they should, and should expect the most for their dollar.

Unfortunately, this also tends to drive manufacturers away from development when it is iffy at best if they will ever recoup investment. It also explains why minimal shelf stock is being maintained, thus limiting exposure and operating capital being tied up, so it creates longer ship times. We have all seen that recently.

SCís are more common component based, so there is normally less initial development cost, and potentially less capital investment to be recouped versus a Turbo system where the vast majority of components are vehicle chassis specific.

So for the newer vehicles I think the trend is going to be a downturn in the development and investment in new high end/high cost performance parts. At least that is what the automotive aftermarket trade publications I get are saying.

Plus, the newer vehicles are getting harder to modify as the manufacturers are forced to tighten up on control of the Powertrain, the 09 and up Hemiís are more of a challenge to tune, and they are only going to get worse.

On the flip side, the 05-08 Hemi vehicles values are going down, and getting cheaper to purchase, so at some point they should reach a point where they are cheap enough to buy to warrant major investment in performance modifications.

srt007
05-11-2010, 11:30 AM
Just a thought on this subject...

Why does everybody try to get the systems to fit in an otherwise stock bodied car? Surely you can modify the passenger floorboard/firewall a bit to fit a big single turbo over there... And with a big single turbo comes a single big pipe to run up to the big, single inter cooler.

Just a thought.... Thats what I would do anyways...




some serious hacking needs to be done to the floor or firewall to fit a big single.
the only place i see for a big single is in the front bumper in the one of the brake cooling ducts. thats the thing about these lx's not alot of room to play with.
or you can remove your fuel tank and install a fuel cell in the trunk, then u have tons of space under there, enough to fit a t6 gt4788 or a gt5593

SamySnead
05-11-2010, 01:33 PM
Just a thought on this subject...

Why does everybody try to get the systems to fit in an otherwise stock bodied car? Surely you can modify the passenger floorboard/firewall a bit to fit a big single turbo over there... And with a big single turbo comes a single big pipe to run up to the big, single inter cooler.

Just a thought.... Thats what I would do anyways...
Until we can rev past 6500+ RPM safely, I dont see the point of having a big single turbo.

05-11-2010, 02:24 PM
some serious hacking needs to be done to the floor or firewall to fit a big single.
the only place i see for a big single is in the front bumper in the one of the brake cooling ducts. thats the thing about these lx's not alot of room to play with.
or you can remove your fuel tank and install a fuel cell in the trunk, then u have tons of space under there, enough to fit a t6 gt4788 or a gt5593

Exactly but most don't want to hack things up. I seriously looked at a pair of low front mount twins years ago behind the front bumper area where there is room to work with a pair of small turbos. I could see a pair dumping into a nice dual inlet single outlet FMIC, with staged water/meth injection fail safed with electronic boost control and intercooler external spray, yummy. But the issue is room for the exhaust. The LX accessories hang low (alternator and AC), blocking access to route exhaust forward and back out. Possibly a dry sumped oil pan "might" clear up space, otherwise your forced under the front crossmember with a reduction in forward ground clearance on an already low vehicle. It's a major challenge anyway you look at it!

05-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Possibly a dry sumped oil pan "might" clear up spaceKinda off topic...you seen that new Aviad Billet Dry sump piece?
They released one for the LSx and have one for mod motors and HEMIs coming soon, looks like the ticket...

8yourM5
05-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Why not just up the blower to a f1 and use your spray? That should get you a nine second quarter
and for alot cheaper

dudeiwin86
05-12-2010, 01:48 PM
Why not just up the blower to a f1 and use your spray? That should get you a nine second quarter
and for alot cheaper

have you followed any of the F1 blower "build" threads?

making big boost on one of those is a chore at best and a nightmare at worst given all of the issues with belt slippage.

which he already mentioned was the primary reason he doesnt want one.