PDA

View Full Version : NASA event at Lime Rock, April 30, 2010



NYC_SRT8
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
As the title states, They will be a NASA (National Auto Sport Association) road coarse event at Lime Rock on April 30th. Opened to beginners to pro licensed drivers. You're garanteed 3 hours of track time with an instructor if NASA see it needed. Ct-Msrt and myself will be in attendance. The cost for the day is $295 for beginners and $270 for everyone else. Lime Rock is a beautiful track with a nice long straight away. Come out and enjoy yourself, I sure will...:racing:

Here is a link to Lime Rock and NASA where you can sign up.

http://www.limerock.com/

http://www.nasanortheast.com/events.html


Attendees
1. nyc_srt8
2. ct-msrt
3. Louz
4. flybyu (maybe)
5. MyMopar

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Lime_Rock_Park.svg/300px-Lime_Rock_Park.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lime_Rock_Park.svg)

LouZ
04-01-2010, 11:24 AM
In, you have to be a menber of NASA?

CT-MSRT
04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
lol, nice long straight. maybe for a go cart. Our cars eat that thing up fast on a good day. It will be fantastic if the weather cooperates. i got 2 friends joining us for that day and Will and I should be running in group 2. Gonna be great to run with you LouZ, that thing looks like a real monster.

FlyByU
04-01-2010, 11:46 AM
I thought you guys were concerned with the corsa's being too loud?

Id love to do this, gotta see how it pans out.

CT-MSRT
04-01-2010, 11:56 AM
i just called. 1-2 spots left in group1. Will gets to be the test subject for being approved by the sound booth. If he gets flagged he'll just have to up shift early before he goes by.

NYC_SRT8
04-01-2010, 11:58 AM
In, you have to be a menber of NASA?

I don't think so. However, I'd call to confirm.

NYC_SRT8
04-01-2010, 11:59 AM
I thought you guys were concerned with the corsa's being too loud?

Id love to do this, gotta see how it pans out.

:banghead: I hope not...

CT-MSRT
04-01-2010, 12:40 PM
https://www.pdadrivingschool.com/index.php

same organization as NASA northeast, no dues. NASA membership ($45) gives you access to some discounts and other things though if you plan on doing this regularly. Get in quick guys, my boss just jumping in a group1 spot with his Audi S4.

LouZ
04-01-2010, 12:51 PM
looks like group 1 is sold out.....but I'm #1 on the list



i just called. 1-2 spots left in group1. Will gets to be the test subject for being approved by the sound booth. If he gets flagged he'll just have to up shift early before he goes by.

LouZ
04-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Monticello is only an hour from my house....so is lime rock


https://www.pdadrivingschool.com/index.php

same organization as NASA northeast, no dues. NASA membership ($45) gives you access to some discounts and other things though if you plan on doing this regularly. Get in quick guys, my boss just jumping in a group1 spot with his Audi S4.

Mymopar
04-01-2010, 01:23 PM
lol, nice long straight. maybe for a go cart. Our cars eat that thing up fast on a good day. It will be fantastic if the weather cooperates. i got 2 friends joining us for that day and Will and I should be running in group 2. Gonna be great to run with you LouZ, that thing looks like a real monster.

You will be in group 2, do they need to see qualification to run that group or are they going to take your word on it? I'm interested and would love to join you 2 in group 2.
Mike, didn't you say that Limerock wouldn't be a fun track for our big cars or was I missing something?

CT-MSRT
04-01-2010, 01:39 PM
You will be in group 2, do they need to see qualification to run that group or are they going to take your word on it? I'm interested and would love to join you 2 in group 2.
Mike, didn't you say that Limerock wouldn't be a fun track for our big cars or was I missing something?

for the general group that just likes to go fast; Lime Rock can be intimidating being a tighter track and only 1 passing zone (huge trains when people don't pay attention to drivers behind them). Frankly i saw loads of just plain blocking on monday in A and B where you'd see a car stuck behind someone for 2-3 laps until a few cars built up and finally pushed by the blocker. For those who run more often and want to hone their skills it can be fun, but i am most likely not going to try and get a LXF day hosted there. If you can document previous track experience and want to go a bit faster, you can jump on the site and register for level 2. When you get in the car that day with your instructor, if they feel you aren't ready they will drop you down to 1 or keep you rocking in group 2. Group 1 is really for first timers.

They remembered me running last weekend and said it was no problem to bump up to 2. Each driver will probably be taken on a case by case basis.

joelvan
04-01-2010, 08:33 PM
With the $45.00 membership it will include a subscription to Grassrootsmotorsports Mag. which is worth it by its self http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/739/ here is a link to their site
where my ride is listed. go vote up my status.

RobAGD
04-01-2010, 10:13 PM
Hey Joel I ran into one of your instructors :) Drives a Bad little SRT4 Neon...

-R

xevilpetex
04-01-2010, 11:36 PM
You will be in group 2, do they need to see qualification to run that group or are they going to take your word on it? I'm interested and would love to join you 2 in group 2.
Mike, didn't you say that Limerock wouldn't be a fun track for our big cars or was I missing something?

NASA issues a "passport" that you get physically signed off on by your instructor. Unless you have a fair amount of track experiance they require you to start in HPDE 1. You can always call to find out http://www.nasanortheast.com/contact-us.html

Mymopar
04-02-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm in and I will be in Group 2. Put me down Mike!

NYC_SRT8
04-02-2010, 11:32 AM
list updated!!!!!

CT-MSRT
04-02-2010, 01:51 PM
i got 2 more people into the event.

Brett- Blue Mustang Cobra from our recent event.
Ken - Audi S4 (one of my bosses)

Mymopar
04-02-2010, 03:24 PM
i got 2 more people into the event.

Brett- Blue Mustang Cobra from our recent event.
Ken - Audi S4 (one of my bosses)

Tell your boss if you do better lap times, you want more paid vacation days!

CT-MSRT
04-02-2010, 03:56 PM
2 more added
C6 Z06 and an experienced air cooled Porsche Turbo joining us as well. Yeehaw!

NYC_SRT8
04-02-2010, 04:06 PM
2 more added
C6 Z06 and an experienced air cooled Porsche Turbo joining us as well. Yeehaw!


Oh I can't wait. :racing:

joelvan
04-02-2010, 10:07 PM
Hey Joel I ran into one of your instructors :) Drives a Bad little SRT4 Neon...

-R
yeah thats Doug wind and it IS a bad Neon near 500 HP to the wheels. whats he doing up there?

RobAGD
04-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Oh he is playing around in our track thread on SRTForums.com :) I tried talking him into coming up for the event :D

-R

joelvan
04-03-2010, 01:49 AM
we are both in the TTS class . Back in December @ Road Atlanta he got 2nd with a 1:35.7 & I took 3rd with a 1:38.7. If I could just figure out how to loose about 1000 Lbs down to his weight I think I could take him. HA HA!

Mymopar
04-03-2010, 07:42 AM
we are both in the TTS class . Back in December @ Road Atlanta he got 2nd with a 1:35.7 & I took 3rd with a 1:38.7. If I could just figure out how to loose about 1000 Lbs down to his weight I think I could take him. HA HA!

That or just add another 100 hp!

xevilpetex
04-04-2010, 04:22 PM
Here is a great video to review for limerock, many good pointers and I can just about do it in my sleep now.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-eYSfK_FcVE&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-eYSfK_FcVE&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Ok, I have no idea how people get teh you tube videos to embed in the post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eYSfK_FcVE&feature=player_embedded

-eYSfK_FcVE

just click the youtube tag and put everything in the url after the = between them.

Mymopar
04-04-2010, 04:24 PM
-eYSfK_FcVE

OMFW, I finally did it after being on these forums for how long, lol. :banghead:

CT-MSRT
04-04-2010, 04:28 PM
People need to watch videos like this and watch how the car missed the flagger waving his yellow flag. There was a hazard on the course and the flagger was doing his job, and the driver was more worried about passing than the course around and ahead of him. This is also a good vid of the first 3/4 of Lime Rock Park.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlHfGGgTVsc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlHfGGgTVsc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Frozen_
04-04-2010, 05:05 PM
Limerock is a great track! enjoy it guys! would love to hear some lap times after the 30th

Mymopar
04-05-2010, 09:56 AM
Holy SH!!!!! 40 seconds in I would have never thought I'd see that! Not sure if I'd be able to continue after that, probably red flagged it for clean up.

CT-MSRT
04-19-2010, 10:04 AM
my boss just pulled out of the event today. There is a single opening for a group1 entry. Someone should jump on this so they can come join us.

xevilpetex
04-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Holy SH!!!!! 40 seconds in I would have never thought I'd see that! Not sure if I'd be able to continue after that, probably red flagged it for clean up.

I had something similar nearly happen to me this weekend, ironically also at about the 40 second mark in the video
-qavRP-Rsbk

I was trying very hard not to run over the white lotus exige cup (with a super slow driver) and didnt catch the flag that came out right before i went over the hill. As you can see it took me a few seconds to gather myself before i got back on it.

RobAGD
04-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Well that is understandable you had to unpucker a bit :)

-R

So any word on sound levels on the exhaust ?

CT-MSRT
04-19-2010, 10:41 AM
Well that is understandable you had to unpucker a bit :)

-R

So any word on sound levels on the exhaust ?

Last time i was there i heard some pretty loud cars comparable to Corsa's on ours. The 2 vipers and a beamer were screaming. I'd say we'll be fine. Worst case, one of us might have to upshift before the booth. Booth is on the inside of the track people, so a 90 degree pointing to the drivers side solved the issue for another couple cars i saw running.

NYC_SRT8
04-19-2010, 11:34 AM
I hope I can clear the noise restrictions. I need my football to be unreachable...upshifting at the booth will kill that...lol

LouZ
04-19-2010, 03:53 PM
{/-]
my boss just pulled out of the event today. There is a single opening for a group1 entry. Someone should jump on this so they can come join us.

Well they go by a waiting list...................

Well luckily for me I'm #1 on the list..........

snagged a spot....

NYC_SRT8
04-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Damn, I forgot to mention that I was bumped to group 2 so that opened a spot in group 1

Mymopar
04-20-2010, 09:48 AM
I had something similar nearly happen to me this weekend, ironically also at about the 40 second mark in the video
-qavRP-Rsbk

I was trying very hard not to run over the white lotus exige cup (with a super slow driver) and didnt catch the flag that came out right before i went over the hill. As you can see it took me a few seconds to gather myself before i got back on it.

Wow that was a close call. It is amazing though how you relaxed a bit, then once you got back in it you caught up to that Lotus in no time at all!

xevilpetex
04-20-2010, 10:00 AM
Wow that was a close call. It is amazing though how you relaxed a bit, then once you got back in it you caught up to that Lotus in no time at all!

The guy in the white lotus was very very slow, That car should have blown me away just about everywhere. It was an Exige cup car too so its even more track focused then the regular exige.

LouZ
04-26-2010, 09:55 AM
4 more days :racing:

NYC_SRT8
04-26-2010, 10:00 AM
Bled the brakes yesterday, checked my suspension, my GPS laptimer is on the UPS truck out for delivery and making my check list of things I'll need as we speak. 4 more days is too long...lol

Mymopar
04-26-2010, 10:41 AM
My front end is squeaking a bit, going to check things out tonight. Maybe just the sway bar bushings need attention with some grease so I'll see. I will probably bleed the brakes again myself but I know that the NJMP track event really didn't put too much of a strain on things. Just top off fluids and give it a once over. Weather is looking great for Friday too so I am excited!

Mymopar
04-27-2010, 10:10 AM
Well I bled the brakes and took a look at the sway bar bushings. I think that they are worn out a bit, I regreased them but will need to find replacements. I forgot to mic them up to get the diam. to get a replacement.
Everything else checked out great, the oil dipstick was loose so I resecured that. I'm good to go for Friday now!

CT-MSRT
04-27-2010, 10:49 AM
well, brake warehouse continues to let me down. Hopefully today they will make an attempt to make me not want to do terrible things to them. I placed an order THREE WEEKS ago for a replacement caliper to be sent to me for the front passenger. I had a seized piston and figured 3 weeks would be an adequate lead time for it to be rebuilt and painted red. I was promised that beginning of last week it would ship. then Friday. Then Monday, Monday came and went and i had a rather vibrant conversation with chuck yesterday at 5pm. I tried the sweet approach to get what i needed done. It unfortunately turned into the board with a nail through it being used for motivation. as promised yesterday they are supposed to be shipped TODAY 2 day air so i can install them Thursday night and hope to hell i don't end up like pete, having to rebuild a caliper the day before a race to make it fit. I bought a spare set for this exact reason, only problem was i was sold $hit and the same caliper i needed had a seized piston as well and i haven't gotten my rebuild kit for that one yet either.

NYC_SRT8
04-27-2010, 11:06 AM
I got 99 problems but my brakes "ain't" one...lol. If worst comes to worst I can get a brand new one from my local parts guy at cost.

Mymopar
04-28-2010, 10:20 AM
That is a pisser Mike. I would have thought it would have been back and on your car by now too. Test drove my car today and it no longer squeaks which is a good thing. I did some data logging and have some major KR in the 8-9 range around 3900 rpm. I'm going to add some more fuel to see if that reduces it. I still have to send some good data logs to Johan, I am thinking I can log a session at LR for him to really tweak it up good.

CT-MSRT
04-28-2010, 10:30 AM
That is a pisser Mike. I would have thought it would have been back and on your car by now too. Test drove my car today and it no longer squeaks which is a good thing. I did some data logging and have some major KR in the 8-9 range around 3900 rpm. I'm going to add some more fuel to see if that reduces it. I still have to send some good data logs to Johan, I am thinking I can log a session at LR for him to really tweak it up good.

you definitely want to clean up some of that before you start running. you don't want anywhere near that much when your really pounding on it for an extended amount of time in that range.

Mymopar
04-28-2010, 10:31 AM
Yeah, I'm working on it.

CT-MSRT
04-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Yeah, I'm working on it.

work faster dude! :racing:

NYC_SRT8
04-28-2010, 11:17 AM
Mike, get the caliper yet?

Mymopar
04-29-2010, 09:38 AM
So any plans for tomorrow yet.
Mike are you going to go out 691 to Rt. 8 to Rt. 4? Maybe we can plan to meet up off the exit.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm leaving nyc between 4 and 4:30. I'm taking 684 to 343 to 41...may catch you guys on the road

Mymopar
04-29-2010, 12:17 PM
I'm leaving nyc between 4 and 4:30. I'm taking 684 to 343 to 41...may catch you guys on the road

Have you considered going 684 -> 84 -> 7 -> 112

I;m not sure what type of road that 22/343 is.


BTW, does anyone know the schedule yet or where I can find it? I know registration starts at 7 so that is the time I was shooting to be at LR for.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Have you considered going 684 -> 84 -> 7 -> 112

I;m not sure what type of road that 22/343 is.


BTW, does anyone know the schedule yet or where I can find it? I know registration starts at 7 so that is the time I was shooting to be at LR for.

I Mapquested Lime Rock and that's the route they threw at me.

6:30 gates open
7:00 tech open
8:15 all hands meeting

I'm planning on getting there at 6:30 since I have to change brake pads and tweak a few things on my car.

LouZ
04-29-2010, 12:41 PM
http://www.nasane.com/images/documents/20100430-lr-april-30-schedule.pdf


Have you considered going 684 -> 84 -> 7 -> 112

I;m not sure what type of road that 22/343 is.


BTW, does anyone know the schedule yet or where I can find it? I know registration starts at 7 so that is the time I was shooting to be at LR for.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 12:47 PM
http://www.nasane.com/images/documents/20100430-lr-april-30-schedule.pdf


Thanks Lou!

I guess I have some time to put on my brake pads. I'm not on the track till 10.

LouZ
04-29-2010, 12:52 PM
rt 22 is mostly a 55mph 2 lane(1 each way) road.


Have you considered going 684 -> 84 -> 7 -> 112

I;m not sure what type of road that 22/343 is.


BTW, does anyone know the schedule yet or where I can find it? I know registration starts at 7 so that is the time I was shooting to be at LR for.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 12:53 PM
rt 22 is mostly a 55mph 2 lane(1 each way) road.

re-route!!!! lol

How about 684 to 84 to toconic pkwy to 44, any better?

LouZ
04-29-2010, 01:04 PM
684 turns into RT22

http://www.limerock.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115&Itemid=97

Their directions.......:racing: the best way.....


re-route!!!! lol

How about 684 to 84 to toconic pkwy to 44, any better?

Mymopar
04-29-2010, 01:07 PM
re-route!!!! lol

How about 684 to 84 to toconic pkwy to 44, any better?

That is going out of your way in a sense. You will be adding miles and it really wouldn't be any quicker.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 01:10 PM
684 turns into RT22

http://www.limerock.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115&Itemid=97

Their directions.......:racing:


That is going out of your way in a sense. You will be adding miles and it really wouldn't be any quicker.

I got the direction from Lime Rock's website, thanks guys.

CT-MSRT
04-29-2010, 01:17 PM
a warning to ALL who go to Lime Rock. Once you get off the highway there are some very long, very straight amazing country roads. stay the fuq off the gas and save it for the track. The place is loaded with cops and they wait there on race mornings and always bag a car or 2 if people aren't careful.

and NO i don't have my caliper yet....

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 01:53 PM
I tested my gps laptimer today. It's f'ing awesome. It gives a lot of info for $150.

LouZ
04-29-2010, 01:56 PM
Which one? and where did you get it?


I tested my gps laptimer today. It's f'ing awesome. It gives a lot of info for $150.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 01:58 PM
Which one? and where did you get it?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036ANQ52/ref=oss_product

It's so small it can fit in the palm of your hand too.

Carfinish
04-29-2010, 02:01 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036ANQ52/ref=oss_product

It's so small it can fit in the palm of your hand too.

whoa wait a minute... I think MattRobertson has to approve this if you're going to claim a track record ... :mrgreen: lmao

bee safe and have fun boys :thumbs_u:

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 02:14 PM
whoa wait a minute... I think MattRobertson has to approve this if you're going to claim a track record ... :mrgreen: lmao

bee safe and have fun boys :thumbs_u:

Just my footballS ready...:mrgreen:

CT-MSRT
04-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Just my footballS ready...:mrgreen:

so how does this work if you get the football since your the only one of us going with a lap timer, but you can't catch up to me all day?

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 02:36 PM
so how does this work if you get the football since your the only one of us going with a lap timer, but you can't catch up to me all day?


HAHA, this is going to be good....:racing:

Mymopar
04-29-2010, 04:04 PM
so how does this work if you get the football since your the only one of us going with a lap timer, but you can't catch up to me all day?


HAHA, this is going to be good....:racing:


You two are so worried about each other which is good for me, while you are fighting for who is in second, I'll be long gone in 1st!

MattRobertson
04-29-2010, 04:18 PM
I think MattRobertson has to approve this if you're going to claim a track record ...
Approval is contingent on a full forum writeup for the KB with screenshots of that software in action. It looks freakin' incredible... and for the price... freakin' incredible. If I read it right, you can't get real time data but maybe you can bring along a laptop or something?

My timer ran like $350 and, while I get real time feedback (it tells me the lap time as I go around) a $150 solution that you can pull times down into a laptop between sessions would be *killer*. I'd probably buy one so I could analyze corner-to-corner performance if it lets you do that. The stuff I've seen that will do that is like $1000-$1300 so this would be an earthshaker if it can go there too.

Post up some details on that fokker!

edit: never mind:

http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS Products/BT-Q1000EX-F.htm
(http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%20Products/BT-Q1000EX-F.htm)
wow.

Carfinish
04-29-2010, 04:51 PM
yeah looks vey interesting Matt... let see what Will does with this. Will, maybe you can let Mike borrow it on a session.... oooops did I just say that? :)

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 05:35 PM
You two are so worried about each other which is good for me, while you are fighting for who is in second, I'll be long gone in 1st!

I've been waiting for you to say something all this time. I can't wait for tomorrow, it's getting better by the second....lol. I got 2 fast lx's to beat up on...:mrgreen:

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 05:36 PM
yeah looks vey interesting Matt... let see what Will does with this. Will, maybe you can let Mike borrow it on a session.... oooops did I just say that? :)

Anyone can borrow it if they would like, as long as they are not in the same running group I'm in.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 05:56 PM
Approval is contingent on a full forum writeup for the KB with screenshots of that software in action. It looks freakin' incredible... and for the price... freakin' incredible. If I read it right, you can't get real time data but maybe you can bring along a laptop or something?

My timer ran like $350 and, while I get real time feedback (it tells me the lap time as I go around) a $150 solution that you can pull times down into a laptop between sessions would be *killer*. I'd probably buy one so I could analyze corner-to-corner performance if it lets you do that. The stuff I've seen that will do that is like $1000-$1300 so this would be an earthshaker if it can go there too.

Post up some details on that fokker!

edit: never mind:

http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS Products/BT-Q1000EX-F.htm
(http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%20Products/BT-Q1000EX-F.htm)
wow.

I've been playing with it trying to learn all the ins and outs. It's a fantastic unit. I logged my trip to work and it broke time down to the milli-second. Even charted my trip using google earth. It broke my speed down the second as well. The only downside is you need a laptop to analyse the data.

LouZ
04-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I've been waiting for you to say something all this time. I can't wait for tomorrow, it's getting better by the second....lol. I got 2 fast lx's to beat up on...:mrgreen:


Anyone can borrow it if they would like, as long as they are not in the same running group I'm in.

Dont count out the newbe...........I'll take you up on that offer since i'm a virgin :)))

MattRobertson
04-29-2010, 08:29 PM
The only downside is you need a laptop to analyse the data.Well I've got one of those mini mini laptops that I used for data logging when I did the intake temp tests. Hooked it into the Diablo and datalogged. Small enough to stuff into the seat. Great on battery life. Something like that might let me analyze data in between sessions... say, "gee what if I do this on Turn 8". But the REALLY big benefit would be on a 2-day track event. In the motel room after the first day, make your vids and match them up to the fastest laps. Then go out the next day armed with that knowledge.

Or more better: My instructor at Willow Springs told me I was driving all parts of the course perfectly. Just not all on the same lap. So get that log and find where you did the best in the segments. Then find those segments on tape and look at what you did. Piece together an ideal lap and then try to do that again the next day.

Here's what I mean:

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/lagunamap.jpg

Mark each corner entry and exit point. Measuring speed from A to B would tell you the fastest way thru Turn 2. Likewise C to D would tell you the fastest way thru Turn 3. But even better, B to C tells you the fastest route thru the straight in between. I've been wondering whether I should figure out a way to not downshift in Turn 5 and if I measured my times from, say, G to I, I could figure out if I made the corner as well or better *and* whether I bogged myself going up the hill afterwards.

Yeah if that thing works its going to be a huge game changer if you use it to learn from one day to the next.

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/lagunamap.gif

Mymopar
04-29-2010, 08:45 PM
I don't need a lap timer for a football cause everyone (and I mean everyone) will be saying holy crap that guy HAS got to be the fastest one out there. So I think that should suffice. See you guys tomorrow.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 10:32 PM
Well I've got one of those mini mini laptops that I used for data logging when I did the intake temp tests. Hooked it into the Diablo and datalogged. Small enough to stuff into the seat. Great on battery life. Something like that might let me analyze data in between sessions... say, "gee what if I do this on Turn 8". But the REALLY big benefit would be on a 2-day track event. In the motel room after the first day, make your vids and match them up to the fastest laps. Then go out the next day armed with that knowledge.

Or more better: My instructor at Willow Springs told me I was driving all parts of the course perfectly. Just not all on the same lap. So get that log and find where you did the best in the segments. Then find those segments on tape and look at what you did. Piece together an ideal lap and then try to do that again the next day.

Here's what I mean:

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/lagunamap.jpg

Mark each corner entry and exit point. Measuring speed from A to B would tell you the fastest way thru Turn 2. Likewise C to D would tell you the fastest way thru Turn 3. But even better, B to C tells you the fastest route thru the straight in between. I've been wondering whether I should figure out a way to not downshift in Turn 5 and if I measured my times from, say, G to I, I could figure out if I made the corner as well or better *and* whether I bogged myself going up the hill afterwards.

Yeah if that thing works its going to be a huge game changer if you use it to learn from one day to the next.

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/lagunamap.gif

Matt, That's my plan for tomorrow. Record through my video glasses and match it to my log data.

NYC_SRT8
04-29-2010, 10:33 PM
I don't need a lap timer for a football cause everyone (and I mean everyone) will be saying holy crap that guy HAS got to be the fastest one out there. So I think that should suffice. See you guys tomorrow.

Aren't you suppose to dream when you're asleep????:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I'm off to bed gentlmen. Bring your "A" game tomorrow...

RobAGD
04-30-2010, 03:54 AM
Yea Matt I have been looking at that since Will gave me a link a few weeks ago. Looks like a very strong contender for the guys like us that want something but have no reason to drop 1000-1600 on a "system". I love the RaceKeeper stuff, its just stupid expensive.

I hope they come up with a screen for this thing thats the only thing missing is some timing feedback.

-R

LouZ
04-30-2010, 09:42 PM
WOW.....that is all......................

Mymopar
04-30-2010, 09:51 PM
LOL, wow is right! I burned up my EBC yellow pads and had to end my last session early. It was GREAT hanging with Mike, Will and Lou not to mention Mike's friend and another forum member here whose name I forget with teh silver SRT Chally.

Looks like it is investment time if I plan on doing this some more. Even if only 3 events a year, tires and brakes will be well worth it. Mike, can you PM me the name and contact info for the slicks?

I'll have pics up tomorrow, Lou and Will if you want me to send the full res pics, PM me your email.

RobAGD
04-30-2010, 09:54 PM
I expected more S#it talking during the day.....

-R

CT-MSRT
04-30-2010, 10:05 PM
slicks ftw... ask Will for details. he was the only one with a timer. I gotta say this though. On street tires, Will impressed the living $hit out of me and a few others. I'd have to classify his performance today as 105% of what street tires are capable of. We just sat there behind him watching his tires slightly step out and drift every single corner yielding speeds i never thought possible on daily driven rubber.

Lou, it was great meeting you. You ran solid today. Hope we'll see you out there again with that monster of yours.

Oh, as a side note. TPMS's do not get past the low 50's in registering pressure. My master plan of being able to monitor the pressure as it warmed up failed miserably (glad i still had a normal gauge).......

CT-MSRT
04-30-2010, 10:10 PM
I expected more S#it talking during the day.....

-R


none of that left to do. The current configurations of our cars got it all hung out on the track today in perfect weather. The pecking order has been established.


If you roll into my back yard, you best come prepared.

RobAGD
04-30-2010, 10:12 PM
So you got the football ?

-R

Carfinish
04-30-2010, 10:32 PM
You guys had a kickass day for this and sounds like u had fun
looking forward to pics and vids if any

xevilpetex
04-30-2010, 11:48 PM
none of that left to do. The current configurations of our cars got it all hung out on the track today in perfect weather. The pecking order has been established.


If you roll into my back yard, you best come prepared.

L
O
L

Way to go

Better luck next time Will
*

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 06:50 AM
Technically, Will gets the football. He was the only one with timing equipment. He did have some sound level issues and had to juggle steel wool all day. He actually shot about 6 pieces of it at my buddies Z06 Which I think we have on camera. I'll have to check his footage.

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

LouZ
05-01-2010, 07:29 AM
John,Mike,

Nice meeting you guys also.....I was pushing my car pretty good in those turns....didn't think you could drift(not intentionally) a AWD.....WRONG.....got some tire/suspension/paddle shifters work to do before the next one.....

NYC_SRT8
05-01-2010, 08:59 AM
1st after my 10 hours of sleep, good morning...lol


2nd, Stell get my football ready...
My best lap time was 1:08; I took a screen shot of my data logging software with the info...

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r305/ny_smasher/LimeRock4_30_2010/LimeRockLapTimes4_30_2010.jpg


3rd, Mike was faster yesterday. Yes I said it…lol. The combination of a short, tight track and all out slicks was too much for my Vreds. When I was behind Mike I was in awe. He would slightly tap his brakes and float through the turns. I on the other hand, was hard on my brakes and slightly drifting through the turns to keep up. The worst of all was that I could not keep full throttle in the straight away because my exhaust being too loud. I would upshift to 5 gear about a 800ft before the 1st Sound Tower and coast past it. I was unable to downshift into 2nd gear in the back straight because of the same reason. That ended before even starting my straight away advantage. I tried stuffing steel wool into my exhaust tip but that lasted 5 seconds...lol

4th, guess who order slicks after getting home yesterday????

5th, John it was great hanging with you yesterday. Your brakes limited your performance drastically. Need a BBK? I’ll have a number for you on Monday...pm on the way.

6th, Lou great seeing you again. I believe we have another LX road racer born…

7th, I knew Pete would enjoy this.lol. My new name is Roger Maris, give me my asterick…lol. Oh yeah, we can share that name....thunderbolt football *couch, cough*...lol

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 09:18 AM
3rd, Mike was faster yesterday. Yes I said it…lol.

I know next time you will come up guns blazing Will. The tires did make 100% of the difference. I just wish you could have seen when i was tailgating this trailered, race prepped S2000 on R-comp. It helped me turn my (and his) best times of the day and since i was up his tailpipe passing the timing tower i will list an unofficial time from his telemetry equipment confirmed by my instructor using a stop watch.

best time: 1:03.42 with multiple back to back 1:04's. Top speed in the straight on some of the deeper braking excursions was 126-127mph. I might have squeezed 1 more mph out of it but didn't want to use the runoff at the end of the straight in case my brakes couldn't take it. I did notice that i have again exceeded EBC yellowstuff's ability to resist fade on my car at the middle of my best session. I got some fade on the down hill and pulled in for a slow run through pit lane to cool and went back out and had fun. I will be looking for blue stuff or something tougher if i am to handle a longer course with higher speeds.

NYC_SRT8
05-01-2010, 09:23 AM
I know next time you will come up guns blazing Will. The tires did make 100% of the difference. I just wish you could have seen when i was tailgating this trailered, race prepped S2000 on R-comp. It helped me turn my (and his) best times of the day and since i was up his tailpipe passing the timing tower i will list an unofficial time from his telemetry equipment confirmed by my instructor using a stop watch.

best time: 1:03.42 with multiple back to back 1:04's. Top speed in the straight on some of the deeper braking excursions was 126-127mph. I might have squeezed 1 more mph out of it but didn't want to use the runoff at the end of the straight in case my brakes couldn't take it. I did notice that i have again exceeded EBC yellowstuff's ability to resist fade on my car at the middle of my best session. I got some fade on the down hill and pulled in for a slow run through pit lane to cool and went back out and had fun. I will be looking for blue stuff or something tougher if i am to handle a longer course with higher speeds.


126mph!!!! I couldn't even break 120mph because of my damn exhaust and that stupid decibel limits. :doh: I'll have something fabbed up to quiet down my exhaust next time. I'm not going down easy buddy...lol:mrgreen:

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 09:32 AM
126mph!!!! I couldn't even break 120mph because of my damn exhaust and that stupid decibel limits. :doh: I'll have something fabbed up to quiet down my exhaust next time. I'm not going down easy buddy...lol:mrgreen:


leave your mids on an just use a STOCK SRT cat-back dude. They are practically free and fit perfect and quiet things down great.

Ron380
05-01-2010, 09:45 AM
John,Mike,

Nice meeting you guys also.....I was pushing my car pretty good in those turns....didn't think you could drift(not intentionally) a AWD.....WRONG.....got some tire/suspension/paddle shifters work to do before the next one.....

Well, heck, Lou... I could have told you that! :wink:

My first time out at Mid Ohio, the best tires I had to choose from were my Parada Spec-X's. (Over the stock Crapinentals.) I'm used to lots of tire squeal from them due to the understeer, but found out from several people, including our own TTMR, that I was actually 4-wheel-drifting around a few of the corners! :rock: Inside the car, I didn't notice! It was perfectly balanced and did exactly what I told it to do! :thumbs_u:

Sorry I missed this one, guys. Hopefully next year the budget will be in better shape! :)

05-01-2010, 09:59 AM
Hey Will think this is a good track for me?

LouZ
05-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Crap....just looked over my car......I really F'd up my tires.......the outer edges are all chewed up..... They make those slicks in 18"?

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Crap....just looked over my car......I really F'd up my tires.......the outer edges are all chewed up..... They make those slicks in 18"?

They were 275/35R18's. You need a 9 inch rim

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

LouZ
05-01-2010, 11:43 AM
They were 275/35R18's. You need a 9 inch rim

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

A 4 tires are in that condition....does that indicat over/under inflation or the side walls are not strong enough. I know thw were making a lot of noise going thru the corners...I had them at 40psi

stevesrt8
05-01-2010, 12:33 PM
I've run mine in a few events at 48.

Big heavy car needs lots of air.

Sounds like fun to me.

MattRobertson
05-01-2010, 12:33 PM
You guys are awesome! Wish we had that many track drivers out here so we could make an event out of it.

There should be an answer soon on the 9.5" Borbet wheels (whether an SRT can use them) but the 8.5" Borbets will work perfectly in a pinch. I've decided to stick with them and sold the 9.5's to Hemi Family, who will be able to do an immediate test fitment on an SRT.

So what was the average lap speed?

xevilpetex
05-01-2010, 12:34 PM
It also indicates not enough camber, which if you are running a stock alignment means you probably have less then -.5 degree all around.

xevilpetex
05-01-2010, 12:42 PM
So what was the average lap speed?

1.53mi track at 1:08.471 = 80.44mph for Will
at 1:03.42 = 86.84mph for Mike

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 12:42 PM
So what was the average lap speed?

Not sure since I am driving right now, but my consistent time at the end was 1:04 per lap on a 1.53 mile course. I think for my weight class I fared well.

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

CT-MSRT
05-01-2010, 12:44 PM
Thanks pete.

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

MattRobertson
05-01-2010, 12:46 PM
1.53mi track at 1:08.471 = 80.44mph for Will
at 1:03.42 = 86.84mph for Mike

OK so thats a decently fast track without being crazy fast. Me, I like the curvy stuff. One of these days I want to find a way to get out there.

Mymopar
05-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Got some pics up. You can see them all here (http://punishercar.com/photos/v/Lime+Rock/) but I'll post some nice shots up. My gallery takes forever to load and I'm working on that.
In nany case, my wife didn't come, so I didn't get any shots of our group (Mike, Will and I) which sucks. I did get some video by setting my camcorder on a tripod and leaving at the track edge. It is only one area but it is the S so it does add some video entertainment.
I also have in car video of both Will and Mike passing me. My top speed on the straight was 124, close to Mikes but because I had to brake way early so I didn't blow the corner I couldn't get any better. All the torque of the 392 stroker really makes a difference as most guys I gave a point by too would get me in the corners braking, once we came out the corner, they were left in the dust. I did the gentleman thing and lifted and gave a point by though. Nothing worse than spending money only to be stuck behind someone who takes away the enjoyment. All 3 of us ran into that situation so I just pitted and went back out. Even the track worked laughed about it when he let me go.

This was a Lxforum member (sorry but I don't recall the name):
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4852-1/IMG_4131.jpg

This guy was screaming (and he was at the Uconn car show):
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4844-1/IMG_4127.jpg

Some stop action photography. You can see how much cars really lean in this corner. Thru here my tires never stopped squealing. Bad thing is too once you straighten out there is a dip and if you aren't carefully your tires break loose (I know) and it gets a bit scary.
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4814-1/IMG_4107.jpg

This guy was FAST! He also had rattle cans in his exhaust to quiet it down for noise level tech:
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4764-1/IMG_4071.jpg

Speaking of noise level, I asked Will is it wrong to ask him if this would be considered ghetto fabbing(note exhaust)?
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4628-1/IMG_3990.jpg

The clan:
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4614-1/IMG_3983.jpg

Where you going Lou? No one escapes my camera:
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4618-1/IMG_3985.jpg

Mymopar
05-01-2010, 12:54 PM
Here are a few more pics, I'll get video up later:

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4714-1/IMG_4037.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4710-1/IMG_4035.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4690-1/IMG_4023.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4664-1/IMG_4009.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4610-1/IMG_3980.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4592-1/IMG_3966.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4594-1/IMG_3967.jpg

Lastly, Will is that you getting the Blue and yellow flag?
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4648-1/IMG_4000.jpg

RobAGD
05-01-2010, 01:45 PM
Nice pics as always John.

-R

Mymopar
05-01-2010, 01:56 PM
Thanks Rob, I should have adjusted the exposure a tad as the sun was brighter than I thought. I shot everything in raw and just said screw it, convert to jpg and get them posted. Another 2 good shots, these cars were loud so I don't know how they didn't get black flagged like Will did.
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4860-1/IMG_4136.jpg

http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4858-1/IMG_4134.jpg

RobAGD
05-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Thats because they are cooler than Will :)

-R

Mymopar
05-01-2010, 02:34 PM
Thats because they are cooler than Will :)

-R
Bazinga! Hey Will, cat got your tongue?

Mymopar
05-01-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm done sitting in front of a computer so this is as far as I got. I have much more video but it will require some editing so for now, enjoy:
_5JKZAFaf4o

SublimeTime
05-01-2010, 03:30 PM
Hey John, that Camaro below the pic of Will is Brandeys friend. I believe he is a regular at Lime Rock.

JamesG
05-01-2010, 04:53 PM
Technically, Will gets the football. He was the only one with timing equipment. He did have some sound level issues and had to juggle steel wool all day. He actually shot about 6 pieces of it at my buddies Z06 Which I think we have on camera. I'll have to check his footage.

Posted via LXFMobile http://media.lxforums.com/images/system_images/mobile/mobile.png

I was curious about this with the Db issue at Lime Rock. Who had issues, who did not and what exhaust setups were you running?

LouZ
05-01-2010, 05:03 PM
I run a Borla 112 which is quiet driving and a little louder WOT....but is still quiet compaired to others....


I was curious about this with the Db issue at Lime Rock. Who had issues, who did not and what exhaust setups were you running?

NYC_SRT8
05-01-2010, 10:20 PM
Thats because they are cooler than Will :)

-R


Haha Rob, you made a funny. I'll make my fun of you at Pocono. Bring your A-game buddy.

NYC_SRT8
05-01-2010, 10:20 PM
Bazinga! Hey Will, cat got your tongue?


Come on, you know I live for the smack talk...lol:)

RobAGD
05-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Shat my A Game is just keeping my jaloppy on the track and all the bits still on it.

Not sure if Ill be doing Pocono, looks like it would be fun, but hell might as well just run the proper NASCAR track :) that infield is some weak sauce vs the big high speed turns.

-R

Ron380
05-01-2010, 10:37 PM
My instructor at NJMP said that Pocono tends to attract the "high testosterone" crowd... They "may" give you a point-by, but usually not until you're already in the braking zone... :doh:

cordeirotony
05-02-2010, 10:17 AM
Hey guys..good to meet you and appreiated the insight you gave me. lime rock is a great technical course, but nothing like the speed you can get at the Pocono configurations (140+) and Monticello (125+). I am hunting for a set of 18" Borbets (Thanks Mike) and utimately some slicks. NASA seems to be a good fit for you guys. Keep me posted of your next track venture.

CT-MSRT
05-02-2010, 10:43 AM
Hey guys..good to meet you and appreiated the insight you gave me. lime rock is a great technical course, but nothing like the speed you can get at the Pocono configurations (140+) and Monticello (125+). I am hunting for a set of 18" Borbets (Thanks Mike) and utimately some slicks. NASA seems to be a good fit for you guys. Keep me posted of your next track venture.


good meeting you man, that 6-speed SRT chally of yours was moovin. We'll all have to get another event together this summer and start packing 7-8 of us at least into a session. As far as the rims go, the 8.5" width is all over the place but i really recommend the 9.5" if you can get them since they will better fit a 275 tire. The 8.5" work but i gave up 15% of my contact patch from cupping my slightly undersized rims.

NYC_SRT8
05-02-2010, 10:48 AM
Hey guys..good to meet you and appreiated the insight you gave me. lime rock is a great technical course, but nothing like the speed you can get at the Pocono configurations (140+) and Monticello (125+). I am hunting for a set of 18" Borbets (Thanks Mike) and utimately some slicks. NASA seems to be a good fit for you guys. Keep me posted of your next track venture.


Hey Tony,

It was a pleasure meeting you yesterday. The next NASA event I'll be attending is the end of the month at NJMP Lightening. I was able to hit 140 in the straight away last year their. With my current set up I'll be able to top that easily. Come on out and join me. Here is a link to the thread I put up for it...

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=217044

NYC_SRT8
05-02-2010, 10:51 AM
Tony, are you running Dot5 brake fluid? I see it in your signature...

CT-MSRT
05-02-2010, 11:00 AM
Tony, are you running Dot5 brake fluid? I see it in your signature...

good god i hope not. That stuff will destroy his brake system. That is meant for show cars only. If it's in there, get it out ASAP.

NYC_SRT8
05-02-2010, 11:02 AM
good god i hope not. That stuff will destroy his brake system. That is meant for show cars only. If it's in there, get it out ASAP.

May be it's dot5.1...

MattRobertson
05-02-2010, 01:21 PM
good meeting you man, that 6-speed SRT chally of yours was moovin. We'll all have to get another event together this summer and start packing 7-8 of us at least into a session. As far as the rims go, the 8.5" width is all over the place but i really recommend the 9.5" if you can get them since they will better fit a 275 tire. The 8.5" work but i gave up 15% of my contact patch from cupping my slightly undersized rims.

*really*? Wow thats not at all what I experienced with the Hoosier 265/645R18's. I basically gave up nothing. Even prior to the first run when they shrank up, they were fine. Post shrinkage they are basically straight up over the sidewall.

Any idea on the actual width of your contact patch? Mine was the full 10.1" tread width.


May be it's dot5.1...
DOT 5 and DOT5.1 are the same IIRC. Just a different way of saying the same thing.

xevilpetex
05-02-2010, 01:52 PM
DOT 5 and DOT5.1 are the same IIRC. Just a different way of saying the same thing.

They are not.
http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml

MattRobertson
05-02-2010, 02:11 PM
Sure enough. And 5.1 is glycol, while 5 is silicone

DOT 3 Vs. DOT 5 Brake Fluid (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html)


...instead of looking at brake fluid as D.O.T. 3/4 versus D.O.T. 5, we should see the issue as glycol versus silicone. This represents the larger division of type, and comparing D.O.T. ratings just isn't significant, especially since D.O.T. 5 fluids are now available in glycol formulation. Glycol fluids have improved until they now meet D.O.T. 5 standards. D.O.T. 5.1 for example, is a glycol fluid designed for certain ABS systems having mechanically cycling proportion valves. So now we have D.O.T. 3, 4, 5, and 5.1, with all but the 5 designation being glycol, while the 5 is silicone.
Maybe thats what cordeirotony has got... 5.1.

CT-MSRT
05-02-2010, 09:09 PM
*really*? Wow thats not at all what I experienced with the Hoosier 265/645R18's. I basically gave up nothing. Even prior to the first run when they shrank up, they were fine. Post shrinkage they are basically straight up over the sidewall.

Any idea on the actual width of your contact patch? Mine was the full 10.1" tread width.

my % might have been slightly liberal but the sidewall does have a slight inward angle towards the rim. around 10.5" tread width for mine on an 8.5" rim. The only benefit i see to what i am doing is it might add some additional sidewall support. Since i have a slight edge on each side of the tire, under a heavy cornering load i even the tire out and maintain grip. Who knows, maybe i don't need to mess with a different set of rims. I think as far as budget is concerned, i'll stick with my Borbet's for now.

MattRobertson
05-03-2010, 12:21 AM
The only benefit i see to what i am doing is it might add some additional sidewall support. Since i have a slight edge on each side of the tire, under a heavy cornering load i even the tire out and maintain grip.
I was noticing exactly the same thing on my tires in the pics that were taken of the thing on Laguna. In extreme cornering, the slight outward bulging simply evened out in hard cornering. On a 9.5" Borbet, I might be pulling on the sidewalls like I was with the 20x9's and the Bridgestones. Those pics were downright scary.

edit: lookit. This is about as violent of a corner as you will ever find. Compare the slightly bulged top of the tire (normal look) to the bottom. I just don't see anything not to like about that. Do you have any closeup cornering shots? Are your tires hanging over more than this?

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/laguna030410_06.jpg

xevilpetex
05-03-2010, 01:10 AM
I was noticing exactly the same thing on my tires in the pics that were taken of the thing on Laguna. In extreme cornering, the slight outward bulging simply evened out in hard cornering. On a 9.5" Borbet, I might be pulling on the sidewalls like I was with the 20x9's and the Bridgestones. Those pics were downright scary.

edit: lookit. This is about as violent of a corner as you will ever find. Compare the slightly bulged top of the tire (normal look) to the bottom. I just don't see anything not to like about that. Do you have any closeup cornering shots? Are your tires hanging over more than this?

http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/laguna030410_06.jpg

Are you two seriously trying to rationalize having an undersized wheel for the tire size?

I need to bump up the psi on my front tires as i completely erased the wear markers early in the weekend. But even this isn't the end of the world
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/xevilpetex/20100418_NJM_DE2_0791.jpg

I know our cars are heavy but this is an aspect where physics dictates that we aren't special. There is a maximum level of grip that the tires can generate. That means at a given psi there is a maximum amount of tire deflection that will occur. We may generate that max grip/deflection at X speed while a lighter car may generate it at Y speed. But when you hit that limit the tire will do the same thing. We aren't reinventing the wheel here (pun intended). My 9.5" wheel is on the small side for these 285/35/18 tires. They recommend up to an 11" wide wheel. I can guarantee that the tire companies have taken tire deflection into account with their designs and with the right tire pressure and wheel size you will be fine.

You aren't going to hop the tire bead off the rim.

cordeirotony
05-04-2010, 09:11 AM
[QUOTE=Mymopar;2927072]
This was a Lxforum member (sorry but I don't recall the name):
http://punishercar.com/photos/d/4852-1/IMG_4131.jpg

Thanks for the picture...this one is of me right before I got black flagged for being too loud. I think I had my stereo pumping so I just went over the decibel limit...or maybe it was the Corsa. Well nothing a little steel wool couldn't address...

cordeirotony
05-04-2010, 09:19 AM
good god i hope not. That stuff will destroy his brake system. That is meant for show cars only. If it's in there, get it out ASAP.


Mike - Just seeing your post - I am checking with the Hemi shop who did my brake system flush to see whether it was 5 or 5.1 .... what is your reservation/concern about DOT 5 silicone out of curiousity when its boiling piont is still satisfactorly high.

I explained to them what I did at Monticello when I lost the brakes and cooked the original Dot3 fluid. they recommended the Stainless braided lines and with this fluid I can really bring the car right of speed with threshold braking. I noticed no squishiness as I had in the past.

Let me know yourt thoughts.

NYC_SRT8
05-04-2010, 09:24 AM
Mike - Just seeing your post - I am checking with the Hemi shop who did my brake system flush to see whether it was 5 or 5.1 .... what is your reservation/concern about DOT 5 silicone out of curiousity when its boiling piont is still satisfactorly high.

I explained to them what I did at Monticello when I lost the brakes and cooked the original Dot3 fluid. they recommended the Stainless braided lines and with this fluid I can really bring the car right of speed with threshold braking. I noticed no squishiness as I had in the past.

Let me know yourt thoughts.

The Hemi Shop as in Westbury Chrysler or Arrrington? Either way I'm pretty sure AJ won't put Dot5 fluid in your car and neither will Arrington. Dot5 is silicone base and is not designed for our braking system. It will destroy it in a short period of time. I don't know of any car that is designed to use Dot 5.

CT-MSRT
05-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Mike - Just seeing your post - I am checking with the Hemi shop who did my brake system flush to see whether it was 5 or 5.1 .... what is your reservation/concern about DOT 5 silicone out of curiousity when its boiling piont is still satisfactorly high.

I explained to them what I did at Monticello when I lost the brakes and cooked the original Dot3 fluid. they recommended the Stainless braided lines and with this fluid I can really bring the car right of speed with threshold braking. I noticed no squishiness as I had in the past.

Let me know yourt thoughts.

more than likely it's 5.1 then if a shop did it. Some of the the things I 've read about .5 is that it does not absorb moisture. Therefore .5 will allow H2O to be a separate liquid in your brake system. If your brakes get REALLY hot, the H2O can then boil, introducing air into the system. There are more things wrong with DOT5 other than this. About the only good thing is it will not damage paint. Basically though, it's the worst thing imaginable for racing and i doubt they put it in there.

Ron380
05-04-2010, 10:36 AM
Have any of you tried the Wilwood 570 brake fluid? That's a pretty good one. :)

CT-MSRT
05-04-2010, 10:42 AM
Have any of you tried the Wilwood 570 brake fluid? That's a pretty good one. :)

I ended up going for the Super Blue/Type 200 rotation. A local place sells it for 10$ a liter and with no shipping costs i have been very happy. the 570 fluid is great stuff but the lack of local availability killed it for me since shipping wasn't cheap.

MattRobertson
05-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Are you two seriously trying to rationalize having an undersized wheel for the tire size?Considering that I didn't put it on the rim until I checked with the tire manufacturer about that specific tire, and considering I get full tread contact as it is, yes I am.

Its not like I slapped the tire on without looking into it. Something we all know but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of: Just because the tire says a certain number like "255" for width, or "265" or "275" doesn't necessarily mean thats the exact measurement of tread width. Lets look at some tire specs:

The Hoosier 255/40/18 R6 that I ran for so long has a sectional width of 10.6" and a tread width of 9.8". By way of comparison, the 255/35/18 has a tread width of what? You'd think 9.8" since its the same size. Same with sectional width if you just read the spec sheet. But in fact it has a tread width of 10.3" and a sectional width of 10.8".

Remember that second set of numbers. Both tires are rated for an 8.5" rim.

Now lets look at the Hoosier R100 in 265/645R18. That tire has a tread width of 10.1" and a section width of 10.9".

So even though its tread measurement is wider (265 > 255) its actual tread width is narrower by 0.2" on one of the manufacturer's 255-width tires, and wider by 0.2" on another. And one way or another, we're talking about ... 0.2", which translates to 0.1" on each side of the rim. Sectional width differences are similarly small on a per-side basis.

So I see that the diffs are peener-wiener when I actually read the specs and try to understand them. Am I missing something or am I really a tire engineer now that I can read this stuff? Probably not. Lets go talk to the guys who made the tires -- the guys I have already talked to and who know what I am doing -- and see if there are any holes in my argument.

So I did. And there aren't. The math works out. The tire maker says its fine (not just OK but fine). The field experience backs it all up.

Now... would I try this with a wider tire? If I read the specs on a 275/35/18 R6... its iffy enough to the point where I would probably go back to Hoosier and ask. Just for starters we can see that reading a spec sheet doesn't tell us everything. So reading a spec sheet on an R6 and hoping that works for whatever those used slicks are would be a bad idea.

But one way or another, don't make the mistake of thinking that doing this wasn't thought out.

xevilpetex
05-04-2010, 11:52 AM
Considering that I didn't put it on the rim until I checked with the tire manufacturer about that specific tire, and considering I get full tread contact as it is, yes I am.

Its not like I slapped the tire on without looking into it. Something we all know but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of: Just because the tire says a certain number like "255" for width, or "265" or "275" doesn't necessarily mean thats the exact measurement of tread width. Lets look at some tire specs:

The Hoosier 255/40/18 R6 that I ran for so long has a sectional width of 10.6" and a tread width of 9.8". By way of comparison, the 255/35/18 has a tread width of what? You'd think 9.8" since its the same size. Same with sectional width if you just read the spec sheet. But in fact it has a tread width of 10.3" and a sectional width of 10.8".

Remember that second set of numbers. Both tires are rated for an 8.5" rim.

Now lets look at the Hoosier R100 in 265/645R18. That tire has a tread width of 10.1" and a section width of 10.9".

So even though its tread measurement is wider (265 > 255) its actual tread width is narrower by 0.2" on one of the manufacturer's 255-width tires, and wider by 0.2" on another. And one way or another, we're talking about ... 0.2", which translates to 0.1" on each side of the rim. Sectional width differences are similarly small on a per-side basis.

So I see that the diffs are peener-wiener when I actually read the specs and try to understand them. Am I missing something or am I really a tire engineer now that I can read this stuff? Probably not. Lets go talk to the guys who made the tires -- the guys I have already talked to and who know what I am doing -- and see if there are any holes in my argument.

So I did. And there aren't. The math works out. The tire maker says its fine (not just OK but fine). The field experience backs it all up.

Now... would I try this with a wider tire? If I read the specs on a 275/35/18 R6... its iffy enough to the point where I would probably go back to Hoosier and ask. Just for starters we can see that reading a spec sheet doesn't tell us everything. So reading a spec sheet on an R6 and hoping that works for whatever those used slicks are would be a bad idea.

But one way or another, don't make the mistake of thinking that doing this wasn't thought out.

Well, im just going by the specs chart they have on thier own website that says the reccomended rim width for the 265/645/18's are 9-10". You've clearly been running outside at least one aspect of their design specs the entire time you've been running hoosiers as you have noted in damn near every thread that you talk about them.

All I am saying is that given the option (and there are options out there) I would rather run a wheel width thats right in the middle of the mfg's specs for whatever tire im running instead of one thats workable but not ideal. You have a vaild excuse because you have 6 18x8.5 wheels already for your car, just dont try and spin it like there is some sort of secret advantage to running narrower wheels that the tire companies dont want all of us to know about.

NYC_SRT8
05-04-2010, 11:54 AM
I ended up going for the Super Blue/Type 200 rotation. A local place sells it for 10$ a liter and with no shipping costs i have been very happy. the 570 fluid is great stuff but the lack of local availability killed it for me since shipping wasn't cheap.

$10, Wow. I thought I was getting them cheap at $12. Next we meet have 2 bottles of ATE Blue for me and I'll reimburse you.

Ron380
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
^ X2 - great price and no shipping! :pepper:

MattRobertson
05-04-2010, 04:40 PM
You've clearly been running outside at least one aspect of their design specs the entire time you've been running hoosiers as you have noted in damn near every thread that you talk about them. And again, as you know I have spoken directly to the tire manufacturer and cleared that bit (vehicle weight), and advised me on how to deal with it (increased pressure) with specific instructions.


All I am saying is that given the option (and there are options out there) I would rather run a wheel width thats right in the middle of the mfg's specs for whatever tire im running instead of one thats workable but not ideal.I'm not saying thats wrong. But saying what is going on as being some kind of problem is mischaracterizing the situation. Its different than whats on the spec sheet. Sure. But you can safely and intelligently exceed those specs as described in detail.


You have a vaild excuse because you have 6 18x8.5 wheels already for your car, just dont try and spin it like there is some sort of secret advantage to running narrower wheels that the tire companies dont want all of us to know about.Again... its not a secret. Its by the numbers. If it didn't add up, I wouldn't be doing it.

xevilpetex
05-04-2010, 05:56 PM
Again... its not a secret. Its by the numbers. If it didn't add up, I wouldn't be doing it.

Im not saying the tire wouldnt fit on the rim, or wouldnt be safe i was just disputing this statement that you agreed with

"The only benefit i see to what i am doing is it might add some additional sidewall support. Since i have a slight edge on each side of the tire, under a heavy cornering load i even the tire out and maintain grip."

The only benifit to running the 8.5's with those tires is that you already had the 8.5's and wouldnt have to spend a bunch of money to get wider wheels.

The only reason it looks 'better' is that you cant see whats happening to the inside edge of the tire. If you could, you would see it rolling over the edge of the rim like a fat girl in tight spandex. :panic:

cordeirotony
05-05-2010, 08:29 AM
The Hemi Shop as in Westbury Chrysler or Arrrington? Either way I'm pretty sure AJ won't put Dot5 fluid in your car and neither will Arrington. Dot5 is silicone base and is not designed for our braking system. It will destroy it in a short period of time. I don't know of any car that is designed to use Dot 5.

Interesting - it was AJ and he is checking on the DOT 5.x type. he said he was doing a hjob for another customer at the time so he had it in the shop. I'm anxious to hear back from him.

CT-MSRT
05-05-2010, 08:48 AM
Interesting - it was AJ and he is checking on the DOT 5.x type. he said he was doing a hjob for another customer at the time so he had it in the shop. I'm anxious to hear back from him.

i'm sure your fine. If it was just DOT 5, you would have had bad brake issues during your day at the track. He'll most likely find the bottle to be 5.1.

MattRobertson
05-05-2010, 12:54 PM
The only benifit to running the 8.5's with those tires is that you already had the 8.5's and wouldnt have to spend a bunch of money to get wider wheels. I already bought wider wheels :-). I sold them to Hemi Family before they arrived thanks to the results I got on track (uhhh... the fact that I am down for a few months might have played a part in it too). I went to an enormous amount of trouble to get the factory in Germany to muscle Tire Rack into selling me those wheels. And they are only $200 a pop so its not a lot of money. But based on what I am seeing and experiencing on track... the wear patterns blah blah I don't need it.


The only reason it looks 'better' is that you cant see whats happening to the inside edge of the tire. If you could, you would see it rolling over the edge of the rim like a fat girl in tight spandex. :panic: Well, I have 5 megapixel versions of the track pics for the day and, while I don't have a perfect view of the tires, I have some halfway decent ones. Thats not happening. Sure there's deflection but its not crazy, and you can infer interior deflection from what you are seeing on the outside. If a tire is deflecting only a little on one side that means there's only a little more available to flop around on the other.

Is it perfect? No. Is it enough to make a federal case out of it? Again I don't think so. Is it a good setup? I think it is. I'll decide on whether I go to 9.5" rims down the road. I had a long talk with Enkei yesterday about rims and safety and they had some interesting thoughts on the subject.

NYC_SRT8
05-05-2010, 01:12 PM
I already bought wider wheels :-). I sold them to Hemi Family before they arrived thanks to the results I got on track (uhhh... the fact that I am down for a few months might have played a part in it too). I went to an enormous amount of trouble to get the factory in Germany to muscle Tire Rack into selling me those wheels. And they are only $200 a pop so its not a lot of money. But based on what I am seeing and experiencing on track... the wear patterns blah blah I don't need it.

Well, I have 5 megapixel versions of the track pics for the day and, while I don't have a perfect view of the tires, I have some halfway decent ones. Thats not happening. Sure there's deflection but its not crazy, and you can infer interior deflection from what you are seeing on the outside. If a tire is deflecting only a little on one side that means there's only a little more available to flop around on the other.

Is it perfect? No. Is it enough to make a federal case out of it? Again I don't think so. Is it a good setup? I think it is. I'll decide on whether I go to 9.5" rims down the road. I had a long talk with Enkei yesterday about rims and safety and they had some interesting thoughts on the subject.


What were some of the interesting things they said?

NYC_SRT8
05-05-2010, 01:38 PM
I got some wheels coming that I'll give more info about after I test fit them. Very strong, 25lbs ea, 18x9 and the killer is that all 4 cost $520 shipped.

CT-MSRT
05-05-2010, 01:41 PM
I got some wheels coming that I'll give more info about after I test fit them. Very strong, 25lbs ea, 18x9 and the killer is that all 4 cost $520 shipped.

5x114.3 Ford rims though right?

cordeirotony
05-05-2010, 10:21 PM
The Hemi Shop as in Westbury Chrysler or Arrrington? Either way I'm pretty sure AJ won't put Dot5 fluid in your car and neither will Arrington. Dot5 is silicone base and is not designed for our braking system. It will destroy it in a short period of time. I don't know of any car that is designed to use Dot 5.

AJ at the Hemi Shop called to confirm it was DOT 4 glycol based fluid which he put in which meets similar temperature standards as DOT 5. Boy - am I glad that's over.

NYC_SRT8
05-05-2010, 10:52 PM
AJ at the Hemi Shop called to confirm it was DOT 4 glycol based fluid which he put in which meets similar temperature standards as DOT 5. Boy - am I glad that's over.


I figured that. The last time I was at his shop he told me that he uses dot4 fluid in all hemi's he work on.

cordeirotony
05-06-2010, 08:21 AM
i'm sure your fine. If it was just DOT 5, you would have had bad brake issues during your day at the track. He'll most likely find the bottle to be 5.1.

All is well...it was Dot 4 fluid...with DOT 5 temperature limits. Now I can go back to threhold braking...on the track that is. Thanks everyone.

MattRobertson
05-07-2010, 04:04 PM
Well, CT-MSRT just showed me pics of his slicks mounted on Borbet 18x9.5's compared side by side with 18x8.5's. Looks like the slicks he has are sized identically to the R100's I am using, and the difference in available tread appears to be at least an inch. He thinks its going to 1work out to 1.5" when all is said and done. Its just amazing to see. His sidewalls on the 8.5's are about as straight up as mine are on a tire that has shrunk down.

So while rollover isn't an issue, I'll stand up and say I was wrong about the contact patch.

Mymopar
05-08-2010, 08:21 AM
Well, CT-MSRT just showed me pics of his slicks mounted on Borbet 18x9.5's compared side by side with 18x8.5's. Looks like the slicks he has are sized identically to the R100's I am using, and the difference in available tread appears to be at least an inch. He thinks its going to 1work out to 1.5" when all is said and done. Its just amazing to see. His sidewalls on the 8.5's are about as straight up as mine are on a tire that has shrunk down.

So while rollover isn't an issue, I'll stand up and say I was wrong about the contact patch.


:thumbs_u:

cordeirotony
05-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Well, CT-MSRT just showed me pics of his slicks mounted on Borbet 18x9.5's compared side by side with 18x8.5's. Looks like the slicks he has are sized identically to the R100's I am using, and the difference in available tread appears to be at least an inch. He thinks its going to 1work out to 1.5" when all is said and done. Its just amazing to see. His sidewalls on the 8.5's are about as straight up as mine are on a tire that has shrunk down.

So while rollover isn't an issue, I'll stand up and say I was wrong about the contact patch.

So CT-MSRT - how about some details on the Borbet 9.5" fit out maybe a picture...?

CT-MSRT
05-09-2010, 09:42 AM
So CT-MSRT - how about some details on the Borbet 9.5" fit out maybe a picture...?

i posted them in another thread, but here's another link to the galleries.

8.5 vs 9.5 with Identical tire (http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/6754292/3/Magnum/Parts/Borbet9_5?h=6eac5f).

9.5 mounted on car (http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/6754292/3/Magnum/Parts/Borbet_Conti?h=a9c78a).

Tire used for both of these setups is the same: 275/35R18 Continental Slick.
I'll have to see how much deflection i get at the next event but i think there will be enough room.
I'll follow up with more pics after my June event at Monticello.