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NYC_SRT8
03-01-2010, 04:57 PM
I am...

http://www.lxforums.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=22095&stc=1&d=1267476968

I've had these for over a month, not installed though...:mrgreen:

CT-MSRT
03-01-2010, 05:00 PM
F U. I have contact EBC several times and can't even buy the Blue Stuff for our Brembo's yet.

mjr5150
03-01-2010, 05:02 PM
It's Course .


















Sup Will.......lol .

jsjahonda(big BK
03-01-2010, 05:05 PM
YOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you know i need a pair of those ;)

xevilpetex
03-01-2010, 05:15 PM
F U. I have contact EBC several times and can't even buy the Blue Stuff for our Brembo's yet.

I bet a stoptech caliper that is used for nearly all their BBK's is a smarter place for EBC to bring the blues out. Im not supprised they're readily available for will's brakes and not for ours yet.

Besides you can just go with the Yellows. I saw a pit crew pulling a set of Yellows off a Daytona prototype car at the Rolex 24 this year and i had to check EBC's site to make sure they really made yellows for the AP racing DP caliper. Sure enough they do. It changed my perception of my brake pads quite a bit. It seems they're a bit less Street/track pad as they are track pads that have a wide enough operating temp to be usable but not ideal on the street. It made a lot more sense as to why i had no brake fade problems at the track last year i thought maybe i was just going really slow :Na_Na_Na_Na:.

CT-MSRT
03-01-2010, 05:29 PM
I bet a stoptech caliper that is used for nearly all their BBK's is a smarter place for EBC to bring the blues out. Im not supprised they're readily available for will's brakes and not for ours yet.

Besides you can just go with the Yellows. I saw a pit crew pulling a set of Yellows off a Daytona prototype car at the Rolex 24 this year and i had to check EBC's site to make sure they really made yellows for the AP racing DP caliper. Sure enough they do. It changed my perception of my brake pads quite a bit. It seems they're a bit less Street/track pad as they are track pads that have a wide enough operating temp to be usable but not ideal on the street. It made a lot more sense as to why i had no brake fade problems at the track last year i thought maybe i was just going really slow :Na_Na_Na_Na:.


Blues are new to market for all the calipers. He just got a very early release. They are coming for us as well. If you were an average customer you couldn't contact a supplier and get a blue for your other calipers either until they fully release them. Reason i want blues is the weight Pete, you take everything out of your car to race. I don't and i like having the extra holding power the blues will afford. They ARE a step up from yellows and EBC wouldn't have researched and made them specifically for our weight class if there wasn't a performance increase as a track only pad. I don't want to settle for yellows and will deal with them until the bitten end before the event before i break down and order yellows instead since blues are a perfect marriage to our cars.

ET1970
03-01-2010, 05:38 PM
What is the heat range and friction coefficient for the yellows and the blues? Are the blues "track only" rated?

xevilpetex
03-01-2010, 05:48 PM
Blues are new to market for all the calipers. He just got a very early release. They are coming for us as well. If you were an average customer you couldn't contact a supplier and get a blue for your other calipers either until they fully release them. Reason i want blues is the weight Pete, you take everything out of your car to race. I don't and i like having the extra holding power the blues will afford. They ARE a step up from yellows and EBC wouldn't have researched and made them specifically for our weight class if there wasn't a performance increase as a track only pad. I don't want to settle for yellows and will deal with them until the bitten end before the event before i break down and order yellows instead since blues are a perfect marriage to our cars.

I ran a day with nearly full weight last year and the pads were fine.

From what ive heard the point of the blues is increased wear and cold bite, not outright performance.
They didnt even really make them specifically for our weight range. It says right on their website that their prime target are cars like corvettes and mustangs. Which are still well below our weight.

Ron380
03-01-2010, 05:56 PM
I've had NO problems with my Yellow's either, but I freely admit I brake earlier and easier... ;) Actually, I've been running the Yellow's year-round and I can't tell if they've worn at all! I really like these!

I did get some occasional squealing for the first couple of months, but a few hard, hot stops would cure that for a while. Now they don't squeal at all. Still using the stock rotors, fwiw. Bear in mind my SXT/AWD has the same brake system as the RT does.

CT-MSRT
03-01-2010, 05:58 PM
I ran a day with nearly full weight last year and the pads were fine.

From what ive heard the point of the blues is increased wear and cold bite, not outright performance.
They didnt even really make them specifically for our weight range. It says right on their website that their prime target are cars like corvettes and mustangs. Which are still well below our weight.

going by the quote from the guy that races a 4000lb GTO that is testing for them i would lean towards believing these are a step up. He was running on yellows up until now in a similar weight class vehicle. I spoke with EBC techs about these pads. They are an upgrade for our weight class cars in every way. I will be holding out for them or going back to Porterfield for another set of race compound.

"Wow, the way the Blues performed this weekend were well beyond my expectations. I had to completely relearn brake zones because I could push so much deeper. The Blues even have me thinking I should keep the beautiful 14" Stoptechs BBK in the garage so I don't get bumped up a race class."

xevilpetex
03-01-2010, 06:06 PM
"Wow, the way the Blues performed this weekend were well beyond my expectations. I had to completely relearn brake zones because I could push so much deeper. The Blues even have me thinking I should keep the beautiful 14" Stoptechs BBK in the garage so I don't get bumped up a race class."

Yeah, a guy who'se getting free evalutaion pads for the companies latest and greatest product is going to say anything but 'its a massive improvment!' and if he didnt have anything good to say it wouldnt make it to the website.

Ill believe it when i see impartial reviews out there.

Until then im not going to sit here and agonize about how i cant get a set yet.


edit: also stock GTO brakes are comically small, so there very may well be a large difference for him with these pads. But things dont always translate from one set up to another.

CVP33
03-01-2010, 08:40 PM
It's Course .

Not with those pads. It's definitely coarse.

ET1970
03-01-2010, 10:42 PM
So, I'm hearing a lot of warm fuzzy things about these brake pads, but the question is still what are the numbers? We can all bench race these pads but I’ll be the first to say if they don't have the heat range or brake coefficient they aren’t going on my car. If these pads suck and you drive like grandma then you'll never know. I may not be that fastest guy on the track but I can assure you when I plan to stop a 4600lb lead sled from 180mph I had better know I can trust the brakes each and every time. So, show me that data and then we can talk comparison to the pads I have tried in the past.

Not to start a war but talk is just that and the numbers is what gets my attention followed by real world performance.

NYC_SRT8
03-01-2010, 11:26 PM
Oh, I left this little tid bit out. I got them for free...:Na_Na_Na_Na:. I'm a EBC bitch now...:swinger:. I'll try to get the owner of EBC over here to explain all the fine details of the Blue and Yellow Stuff. He frequents the Corvette forums so he's no stranger to this type of atmosphere.

My understanding from my many emails with EBC's owner is the blue stuff has better initial bit at colder temperatures than yellow stuff. Also at the limits the blue stuff takes less pedal travel to slow down. The pads I have is a formula that was release February 1, 2010. This formula was designed to last 2-3 times longer than yellowstuff when using in track situations. EBC's owner is very stoked about this formula. I didn't get into it about heat ranges but as Pete said I've seen Endurance race team use yellow stuff.

Tork Monster
03-02-2010, 12:57 AM
Hey Will!
I ran EBC Greenstuff on my 5-Series and loved 'em (after I went through a couple of rotors... you MUST bed these or you will warp your rotors).

I haven't heard of the Bluestuff before. New product with improved performance, or for a specific application?

I was going to install EBC (red/yellow/green/blue) as my next pads, as I am running C-Tec now. They are clean, but they don't bite too well.

Wanna hear a full report on these :mrgreen:

LouZ
03-02-2010, 09:32 AM
were can you get them?

NYC_SRT8
03-02-2010, 10:10 AM
Hey Will!
I ran EBC Greenstuff on my 5-Series and loved 'em (after I went through a couple of rotors... you MUST bed these or you will warp your rotors).

I haven't heard of the Bluestuff before. New product with improved performance, or for a specific application?

I was going to install EBC (red/yellow/green/blue) as my next pads, as I am running C-Tec now. They are clean, but they don't bite too well.

Wanna hear a full report on these :mrgreen:


That was a major problem with all early EBC pads. Since then they have changed the formula many times. I would say over the past year or so eating rotors have not been a complaint. The Blue stuff is a track pad. You can use it on the street but I won't recommend it. You'll get lots of dust and squealing. The Red stuff is more a high performance street pad.

NYC_SRT8
03-02-2010, 10:12 AM
were can you get them?

They are not available in the US for r/t or srt8 calipers yet. They do have a part number for the srt8 though. I bet you can order them from directly from EBC in the UK. It may cost in shipping though.

MattRobertson
03-02-2010, 01:09 PM
I talked to EBC about them quite a bit and they were very excited. I talked to them about testing on my car (my schedule and theirs didn't fit together) and while I did I took the opportunity to grill them on specs. The pads NYC_SRT8 has are actually not the final final formulation of that pad. They've been changing it incrementally for some time. The tech information on the site has been largely removed, which is good because it was for a formulation they have moved beyond (to their credit they put up a LOT of data early on showing fade rates and all sorts of stuff). It was out of date when I was talking to them and they still had another formulation or two to go before they released it. The older stuff went away under really really hard use and the final formulations were supposed to cure that.

They are supposed to be good for both street and track. The one chart thats up now points to a 0.70 peak friction coefficient.

BUT...

Read their bedding process.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/ebc_disc_pads_for_racing/index.shtml

Thats new and it doesn't sound like something I want to fool with.


It is necessary to bed these pads in properly. The ability therefore of NDX to be used on the street and undergo a steady bedding process is a major advantage but even after geometric bedding during street driving for 100-200 miles (if you can achieve that) to achieve a 95% contact area the pads need a full 3-4 laps steadily more aggressive driving and braking and to be allowed to COOL completely before a race, preferably overnight. If you fail to bed these pads in properly you will not achieve their potential.W. T. F.

any way around this?


If you do not have the chance to street bed your Bluestuff pads in or you wish to install them at the track, allow 5 laps laps steadily increasing brake use at the track but still allow pads to cool completely before the race, or better still consider using ( ideal to carry a spare set of these with you) our Yellowstuff grade which beds in much more quickly.ohhhhkay. If the pads don't work right, buy another set of our pads.

Very disappointing. You just can't bed pads and then let them cool completely at a track event. It never happens. You'd have to throw out a session to dedicate to pad bedding, then pull the wheel, change the pads to another set you already bedded and not use the bedded pads until next time.

Either that or get less out of them. Very very disappointing. NYC_SRT8's pads aren't this formulation and they don't have this kind of BS for bedding in their recommendations (or at least I sure didn't see it when I was looking these over a few weeks ago) so he is actually n great shape.

CT-MSRT
03-02-2010, 01:24 PM
starting to look like yellows or more porterfields... oh well.

Posted via LXFMobile

MattRobertson
03-02-2010, 01:28 PM
Here's the whole bedding procedure. I misread the chart they have up. The 0.7 peak is from the bedding procedure. Thats what the graph shows.



Bedding in procedure involves 35 stops from 60mph to 30mph at 50% full brake (approximately 0.3g). Allow 500 yards between each brake application for brakes to cool slightly. You will see the friction climbs from 0.4 up to almost 0.7 by the end of the bedding cycle. After this procedure ONLY ON A RACETRACK in safe conditions subject the pads to two hard braking actions from 80mph-0 in close succession, coast to a standstill and allow pads to cool overnight.


Thats the end of that for the Blue Stuff as far as I'm concerned.

NYC_SRT8
03-02-2010, 01:39 PM
Here's the whole bedding procedure. I misread the chart they have up. The 0.7 peak is from the bedding procedure. Thats what the graph shows.



Thats the end of that for the Blue Stuff as far as I'm concerned.

There is no chance in the world I'll bed it like that. I'll install them the day before the track event and bed them the way Zeckhausen describes on his website.

~ 10 consecutive stops from 80-10mph then cruise for a few miles without using the brakes to let them cool.~ If they don't perform on the track I'll have a back up set of Yellowstuff. I've seen guys run the Yellows on our heavy cars without problem on the road coarse.

xevilpetex
03-02-2010, 02:39 PM
There is no chance in the world I'll bed it like that. I'll install them the day before the track event and bed them the way Zeckhausen describes on his website.

~ 10 consecutive stops from 80-10mph then cruise for a few miles without using the brakes to let them cool.~ If they don't perform on the track I'll have a back up set of Yellowstuff. I've seen guys run the Yellows on our heavy cars without problem on the road coarse.

The LIE service road is a great place that you could actually do that bedding procedure Will. Come on EBC is relying on you to do this right. Dont let 'em down! :swinger:

NYC_SRT8
03-03-2010, 10:29 AM
The LIE service road is a great place that you could actually do that bedding procedure Will. Come on EBC is relying on you to do this right. Dont let 'em down! :swinger:

I'll have to change my oil after bedding the brakes if I follow that procedure. Umm, I'll pass.

xevilpetex
03-03-2010, 12:30 PM
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/ebc_disc_pads_for_racing/index.shtml

Thats new and it doesn't sound like something I want to fool with.

W. T. F.

any way around this?

ohhhhkay. If the pads don't work right, buy another set of our pads.

Very disappointing. You just can't bed pads and then let them cool completely at a track event. It never happens. You'd have to throw out a session to dedicate to pad bedding, then pull the wheel, change the pads to another set you already bedded and not use the bedded pads until next time.


This actually doesnít sound too out of line for someone who is actually racing their car though. A race weekend for a lot of people starts with the open practice on Friday, where you can bed in your new pads (on a set of heat cycled out tires), then swap them out for the set you used for the previous race weekend and continue with practice. Let them cool over night then install them before qualifying the next day. Then race the Saturday and Sunday races (and maybe the next few weekends too). Its not like its uncommon for racers to have half a dozen sets of pads in various states of use. They can rotate them as they go without too much inconvenience.

Itís not ideal for someone doing DE days on a budget, but thatís the price you pay for whatever improvements these pads may provide.

I'll be sticking with my set of yellows for now, then maybe trying a set of carbotechs next.

MattRobertson
03-03-2010, 12:37 PM
Yeah sure it does. But EBC has been marketing these pads as wonderful daily-use brakes that are wonderful track brakes. Then they come out in the end with a pad that requires these hoops to work right.

http://foohbar.com/ul/doh_60.gif

Probably smart marketing to attract the posers. But I doubt many who use them will get their money's worth over something more realistic for a street application.

My H and B pads require very little in the way of bedding. Maybe do the Zeckhausen schtick and leave it at that.

xevilpetex
03-03-2010, 12:59 PM
Yeah sure it does. But EBC has been marketing these pads as wonderful daily-use brakes that are wonderful track brakes. Then they come out in the end with a pad that requires these hoops to work right.

http://foohbar.com/ul/doh_60.gif

Probably smart marketing to attract the posers. But I doubt many who use them will get their money's worth over something more realistic for a street application.

My H and B pads require very little in the way of bedding. Maybe do the Zeckhausen schtick and leave it at that.

I dont think they are marketing them as every day pads at all. They are only saying that they are full out race pads that have the extra attribute of working adequately well when cold (which is important for autocrossers).

I'm also not seeing the fuss over the street bedding process they put up. I mean is 35 cycles of 60-30 really that much harder then 10 cycles of 80-10? I actually think its easier to find a place to do 60-30 stops all day long instead of 80-10. If youre on a road that allows you to hit 80, i generally wouldnt want to bring it all the way down to 10mph. Its a good way to get rear ended. However slowing down to 30mph on a 60mph road isnt too crazy.

They arent saying you have to hammer the car from 30 back up to 60 either. It seems like ideally it would be a relitively gentle pulsing between the two speeds.

NYC_SRT8
03-03-2010, 01:10 PM
I dont think they are marketing them as every day pads at all. They are only saying that they are full out race pads that have the extra attribute of working adequately well when cold (which is important for autocrossers).

I'm also not seeing the fuss over the street bedding process they put up. I mean is 35 cycles of 60-30 really that much harder then 10 cycles of 80-10? I actually think its easier to find a place to do 60-30 stops all day long instead of 80-10. If youre on a road that allows you to hit 80, i generally wouldnt want to bring it all the way down to 10mph. Its a good way to get rear ended. However slowing down to 30mph on a 60mph road isnt too crazy.

They arent saying you have to hammer the car from 30 back up to 60 either. It seems like ideally it would be a relitively gentle pulsing between the two speeds.

Ya know what, thinking about it again 60-30 is not that bad. I was thinking they wanted you to hammer the brakes but reading it again they said 50% peddle pressure. I know a few places I can do that on public streets and still be within the law. Blue stuff for the win...lol

MattRobertson
03-03-2010, 03:08 PM
I dont think they are marketing them as every day pads at all. Well then go look again at the big red headline on the top of Blue Stuff Page 1 :-), plus they have changed the sales text quite a bit. There used to be an faq where they addressed street pad usage and, among other things, claimed you would find the BS pads "the best brakes you ever had" for street use.

When bedding, I do the 60-30 method myself. 10 times tops. All I need to do is scrape off any material from a previous compound and I'm ready.

gooeytek
04-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Well, judging from the recent NJMP event (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=189771)that was rain-soaked, it's pretty safe to say that our cars can hold their own in the wet. Those Blue Stuff pads that Will had though, I think made a huge difference. He was pretty much unstoppable out there.

CT-MSRT
04-06-2010, 11:18 AM
Well, judging from the recent NJMP event (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=189771)that was rain-soaked, it's pretty safe to say that our cars can hold their own in the wet. Those Blue Stuff pads that Will had though, I think made a huge difference. He was pretty much unstoppable out there.

brakes/pads aren't that big a deal in the wet, it comes down to tires and driver skill and a lil bit of power to push the car. I had to feather my yellows to not engage the abs since traction was so pitiful for me in the rain. In dry conditions (i hope) on the 30th we'll get to see what his BBK will really do with a couple high speed braking points back to back.

NYC_SRT8
04-06-2010, 11:21 AM
I have to agree. The EBC blue stuff with the stoptech bbk was a unstoppable combination that day. Very easy to modulate, great initial bite, stopping power and absolutely zero fade. After five 30 minute sessions I still have 85% of the pad left. The best of it all is that it was very gentle to my rotors. This blue stuff is the real deal, jump on it gentlemen.

NYC_SRT8
04-06-2010, 11:26 AM
brakes/pads aren't that big a deal in the wet, it comes down to tires and driver skill and a lil bit of power to push the car. I had to feather my yellows to not engage the abs since traction was so pitiful for me in the rain. In dry conditions (i hope) on the 30th we'll get to see what his BBK will really do with a couple high speed braking points back to back.

I was using my brakes fairly hard. Remember my tires was sticking unlike yours. I activated ABS maybe 3 times through out the day due to the pads being so easy to modulate. I was able to get up to 120mph in the straight away (EVIC comfirmed) and to slow down for turn one it would have been impossible to feather brakes at that point. My rotor got over 1000 degrees according to the rotor temp paint. I gave those pads a good workout. They are very good pads for the track, there is no question in my mind.

xevilpetex
04-06-2010, 11:26 AM
I have to agree. The EBC blue stuff with the stoptech bbk was a unstoppable combination that day. Very easy to modulate, great initial bite, stopping power and absolutely zero fade. After five 30 minute sessions I still have 85% of the pad left. The best of it all is that it was very gentle to my rotors. This blue stuff is the real deal, jump on it gentlemen.

I highly doubt you would have had any brake fade or issues even with stock RT pads/calipers on that day.

NYC_SRT8
04-06-2010, 11:28 AM
I highly doubt you would have had any brake fade or issues even with stock RT pads/calipers on that day.

Even with rotor temps over a 1000 degrees??? I'll have to say differently here...

CT-MSRT
04-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Even with rotor temps over a 1000 degrees??? I'll have to say differently here...

120mph + 1000degrees is hoofin them harder than i thought. I was almost off the course the times i tried getting it over 113-115mph. I barely made it on to the straight and almost went off track at the end to squeak out those speeds so i only did it twice to see how far i could get it. That would put a major hurtin on a stock pad ez.

gooeytek
04-06-2010, 12:16 PM
I thought I was going fast at 112-115mph on the main straight, then Will said he was hitting 120mph...

When we were hanging out over pit lane watching the cars open up on the main straight, it was easy to see and compare how soon or how late people were braking. I thought I was pushing it by braking at the #2 marker after hitting 112-115, but Will's brake lights were coming on past #2 after hitting 120.