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View Full Version : GIFO/Modifications Face Off Summary:Got a performance question? Find the answer here!



CoolVanilla
11-10-2005, 04:39 PM
In an attempt to aid searching, I've created this thread that will hold a summary of all performance tests we've made thus far, and those we'll make in the future. Please feel free to post general questions here. Any specific questions about a test, please post them to the appropriate, linked, thread.

The Great Intake Face Off (GIFO) Series of Tests

GIFO1 - Various CAI products on a bone stock RT

This test involved a stock 2005 Magnum RT. Various intakes were installed and were tested under similar conditions. Dyno results and track times were gathered.
The bottom line? No aftermarket intake tested showed better max hp and torque numbers than the stock box. However, looking at "up the curve" results, we can see slight improvements, around 8/8. Net result? A slightly harder pulling Hemi.
See all the details here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140GIFO2 - Zoomers Aftermarket exhaust and various CAI products

This test involved the same 2005 Magnum RT on the same dyno, but this time with Zoomers aftermarket exhaust installed. Dyno results and track timers were gathered.
The bottom line? The exhaust modification is worth just around 10hp and 10torque max output. No aftermarket intake tested showed better max hp and torque numbers than the stock box. However, "up the curve" improvements were seen with the exhaust of up to around 30/30! Net result? A harder pulling ride at WOT.
See all the details here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=16139 (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=16139)GIFO3 - Gibson Headers, 18" vs 20" rims, GSM Traction Mod, and various CAI products

This test involved the same 2005 Magnum RT on the same dyno, but this time with Gibson headers, and the GSM Traction modification installed. Dyno results and track timers were gathered.
MattRobertson had his headers installed and tested by the same folks. See his results here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=16425
Meister ran his 300c with 3 different configurations on the same day my headers were installed. See his results here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=19726
The bottom line? We saw a max improvement of around 20/20. This is consistent throughout the power curve. AND for the first time, we can see a substantial improvement with an air intake; around 10/10 max. Oh and 18" vs 20" rims seem to make zero performance difference for our setups. As for the GSM mod... I suggest you read the linked posts and draw your own conclusions.
See all the details here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=18831&highlight=gifo3GIFO4 - Superchips tuner, Hypertech tuner, Jet Stage II chip, Hurricane IAT mod, StarScan Dyno Mode, Octane tests, various CAI options

This test involved MattRobertson's 2005 Magnum RT on the same dyno, but this time with the various mods applied. While we didn't show any particular major benefit with the Superchips, we did show that it was very effective at reducing the dip in power between tranny shifts; that alone justifies the mod. We also showed for the first time a filter degrading performance due to it being undersized.
Meister ran his rig with his monster air filter, and showed yet again bigger is truly better. He also showed that stacking the Jet Chip with the Superchips tune might be worth some gain, but its not necessarily an advisable combo.
gotls1's RT was tested using various octanes of gasoline and the Superchips tune for those octanes. We saw significant drop offs when 87 octane was used, however no real increase in performance between 89 and 91 (premium here in Californai). Bottom line? Save some pennies and run with the 89 if you have anything close to a stock 5.7L Hemi.
Many other members had the chance to run their LX, including an SRT8 and Supercharger.
See all the details here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=31392----------------------Test Series Renamed to the Modifications Face Off series ----------------------

Mods Face Off 4.1 - High Horse Performance High Flow Catalytic Converters & Frankentake II

MattRobertson put his Magnum up for test yet again on the SVS dyno. This time, high flow cats were installed and the Frankentake II was tested.
These cats are worth approx 9hp/12trq with Matt's given setup. More power+better sound makes this a must have mod.
The intake was tested after the engine had heated, so the results are not clear.
See all the details here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=34904Mods Face Off 5 - Coming Oct 9-14 2006

Click here (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=37056) for all the details.

GN_driver
03-22-2006, 03:43 PM
CV, hope I am not missing something really obvious but I want to add an aftermarket catback and want to know how much better than stock they are, which ones do better and where bottlenecks of the stock system are. Anything planned or done already?
Thanks for all your input.

done
03-22-2006, 05:14 PM
CV, hope I am not missing something really obvious but I want to add an aftermarket catback and want to know how much better than stock they are, which ones do better and where bottlenecks of the stock system are. Anything planned or done already?
Thanks for all your input.

From post #1

"
The bottom line? The exhaust modification is worth just around 10hp and 10torque max output. No aftermarket intake tested showed better max hp and torque numbers than the stock box. However, "up the curve" improvements were seen with the exhaust of up to around 30/30! Net result? A harder pulling ride at WOT.
"

CoolVanilla
03-22-2006, 05:25 PM
Thanks Don. Does that answer your questions GN? If not, do not hesitate to ask anything else!

NorthernCali
05-07-2006, 01:24 AM
From post #1

"
The bottom line? The exhaust modification is worth just around 10hp and 10torque max output. No aftermarket intake tested showed better max hp and torque numbers than the stock box. However, "up the curve" improvements were seen with the exhaust of up to around 30/30! Net result? A harder pulling ride at WOT.
" I was curious if the same number apply for the srt8s also? Does it make a differance if i just swap the mufflers only vs. replecing the whole cat back + mufflers? I was also wondering if removing the resonators make a differance?

Bubba's Dragon
05-20-2006, 04:16 AM
So is getting headers worth it? Just purchased DUB intake and Basani exaust. Will adding headers help me or should i go internal and think about heads and cam?

mr.niftie
07-31-2006, 11:18 AM
Sorry for what may be a dumb question but what is "up the curve"?

CoolVanilla
07-31-2006, 03:48 PM
Sorry for what may be a dumb question but what is "up the curve"?Not a dumb question at all! I should have explained better.

When I say "up the curve", I'm meaning the curve the torque and horsepower numbers make when graphed. Even though one mod might net the same performance numbers as another (ie mod x = 298hp max, and mod y = 298hp max), how they get to that max is just as important (if not more so) than the max number itself. (ie at 3500rpm mod x was at 234hp, while at 3500rpm mod y might be all the way up at 255hp).

Let me put it another way: if mod x is making 250 hp after 5 seconds of WOT, mod y is making 280 hp after the same five seconds of WOT. We would say that mod y shows a vast improvement over mod x "up the curve".

I hope that makes some sense.

(all numbers used are fictitious and are not meant to be taken literally; they are for example purposes only)

HEMI~C~
10-14-2006, 10:28 AM
All, I can't seem to find any of the results/dyno sheets related to this weeks testing. I saw the heads/cam testing done on one vehicle and the AirHammer Ram air mentioned by Meister but not much else.Am I missing the obvious or just being impatient?? Thanks for busting ass this week guys.Chris

RobAGD
10-14-2006, 11:22 AM
Hemi~C~ - Its going to take about a week of solid number crunching to get everything going in the right direction. I wouldnt expect to see any more than very general graphs until next week.

-R

Morid
03-13-2007, 11:32 AM
So is getting headers worth it? Just purchased DUB intake and Basani exaust. Will adding headers help me or should i go internal and think about heads and cam?


See above, Didn't see an answer. Thanks!

CoolVanilla
03-13-2007, 11:36 AM
Morid, check out the GIFO3 section above, and if you want more info click the link contained within it. If you still have questions after reviewing our findings and comments, please feel free to post em up! Just keep in mind, the "worth it" question is really too subjective for me or anyone else to answer. What we can do is show you the performance numbers and help you decide if the $$ and effort are justified for your particular driving style and goals.

UK CHRYSLER 300C
11-29-2007, 03:51 PM
I hope somebody is still watching this post,

what sort of improvement will I see if I use a Diablo and a 180 stat on a stock 5.7 UK spec 300C,bearing in mind that what I have found out that some U.S. models are speed restricted to 128mph while UK models are restricted to 155mph.
What I really want is better bottom end. i.e. acceleration,as I'm not bothered about top end.
I dont want any other mods,as I know through experience that CAI's just make noise and the horsepower lost through cats is only about 10%.
I have always had and will always like the "street sleeper".and in my day it was through bigger engine/carb swaps,(blaa,blaa,blaa.lol)Also if the diablo is fitted will I still have to pull fuse 11 every now and then to pep the power up.
Thanks from the UK who has no-one to help him.

Meister
11-30-2007, 05:47 AM
1....what sort of improvement will I see if I use a Diablo and a 180 stat on a stock 5.7 UK spec 300C...


2....I know through experience that CAI's just make noise...

3....if the diablo is fitted will I still have to pull fuse 11 every now and then to pep the power up.

4.Thanks from the UK who has no-one to help him.

1. You'll likely see 15 hp or so - more if you follow the suggestion in item 2.

2. That *used to be* an accurate blanket statement, UK Chrysler, but not any more. Our own MoFo's have clearly shown the AirHammer to make 10 hp or so on a totally bone stock LX 5.7. One other intake made about half of that.

I can HIGHLY recommend any of the several great AirHammers available for you to choose from. I would think that the 6# weight savings you get with the al-you-min-ee-um :wink: model would help offset its extra purchase cost by saving you a bunch of money on postage.

With the AirHammer installed the Predator will now make additional power of its own, so you may see upwards of 30 hp.

3. It's doubtful. Typically you'll be changing parameters in your Predator frequently enough that your ride never develops the doldrums.

Help is never further away than your keyboard, UK. :)

UK CHRYSLER 300C
11-30-2007, 06:53 AM
I dont really want a CAI,if i had a challenger or magnum maybe,but the 300c doesnt look sporty enough to have that "baaaarrp" noise,In the UK the 300c is classed somewhere in the top marque,thats why I had the C,cos its a street sleeper.
you say about 15hp increase on stock settings,doubt i'll feel that,but i'm sure i'll feel the tranny difference,plus i'm led to believe that i can shift the red line higher,is that true too?,thanks again

done
11-30-2007, 12:01 PM
I dont really want a CAI,if i had a challenger or magnum maybe,but the 300c doesnt look sporty enough to have that "baaaarrp" noise,In the UK the 300c is classed somewhere in the top marque,thats why I had the C,cos its a street sleeper.
you say about 15hp increase on stock settings,doubt i'll feel that,but i'm sure i'll feel the tranny difference,plus i'm led to believe that i can shift the red line higher,is that true too?,thanks again

The AirHammer does not make any significant noise at normal driving speeds. But when you go WOT....

Daniel454
11-30-2007, 12:27 PM
.....plus i'm led to believe that i can shift the red line higher,is that true too?,thanks again Yes

Daniel454
11-30-2007, 12:34 PM
Now for my question, when is the Next MFO??? In particular I want to see some Cam / Head comparisons.... MY head is spinning from all the Cam talk and no idea which way to go... FRI is tried and true, putting down good numbers, but then HHP shows up and pulls ahead based on threads, and then you have PRD sitting back there making statements too...

I AM LOST! And the specs they post on the lift and duration, though I appreciate, do nothing for me as I havent had the time to really research what it means in the real world....

I want TORQUE, lots and lots of low end torque.... Of course, I could just make a thread asking that question, but something tells me I would only get more confused and it would end up in the abyss anyway :blam: ...

So whens they next MFO / or better yet, the GREAT HEADS / CAM FACE OFF? (sorry no groovy acronym came to mind)...

MattRobertson
12-04-2007, 02:13 AM
The last MFO (MFO5) was heads+cam. But heads/cams were so new back then... you have a blinding array of choices now.

And seeing as to how it costs literally thousands of dollars to do a single comparison... I don't see anything like that ever happening again.

With the advent of total tunability in our cars we have to look long and hard at what we do next. Nobody wants to hear it but I want to do a redux of GIFO1 with tuning this time. As in start over on intakes and learn what they do now that we can write HAL out of the picture and rewrite the rules. I wonder what intake will do what in that scenario since all of our baseline assumptions -- derived via empirical data -- are out the window now.

I have a few ideas but it would be nice to re-establish our baselines in the new landscape we now find ourselves in.

RobAGD
12-04-2007, 02:37 AM
Also, the MFO's are at a point where they realy need to start being done on a Dyno for speed and easy of swapping.

That is going to cost some coin, and its going to need a stand alone controler.

-R

Maxgas1
05-07-2008, 10:00 AM
Good job here guys. This really helped me out.

Midnightsun300c
07-04-2008, 09:11 PM
The last MFO (MFO5) was heads+cam. But heads/cams were so new back then... you have a blinding array of choices now.

And seeing as to how it costs literally thousands of dollars to do a single comparison... I don't see anything like that ever happening again.

With the advent of total tunability in our cars we have to look long and hard at what we do next. Nobody wants to hear it but I want to do a redux of GIFO1 with tuning this time. As in start over on intakes and learn what they do now that we can write HAL out of the picture and rewrite the rules. I wonder what intake will do what in that scenario since all of our baseline assumptions -- derived via empirical data -- are out the window now.

I have a few ideas but it would be nice to re-establish our baselines in the new landscape we now find ourselves in.
Hey Matt:

I would like to say thanks for all the invaluable information that you and the rest of the MFO participants have selflessly given all of the LX community. I have only been visiting this forum for some six months now but I am familiar with your work from the 300 forum before that.:beerchug:

I would hope that this MFO will not die but instead get new energy from all that is now available for our LX platform. I like your idea for establishing a new baseline now that we have tuning capabilities for our cars. I think the results will change and be more useful for everyone.

Maybe combining the MFO with another event such as the LX National next year could result in some shared costs and a bigger participant pool?

I would love to see a MFO that included forced induction now there seems to be a number of reliable manufactures as well as a CMR tunning challenge! Who's tune actually works and who is just peddling canned tunes?

I realize that everyone has an opinion of what is better but the information that comes from these types of open comparisons is far and away the most reliable information that any of us can get.

Anyway, I guess I don't have any tangible ideas or help at this point but I would be happy to chat with you about this event (MFO) and would be willing to help anyway I could. I would hate to see it fade away, especially now that there are so many option for us to choose from and therefore so much more need to have reliable information.

jerzy jess
05-22-2009, 04:34 PM
I have a set of AMG shift paddles that I am going to be using soon.I will be running shifthammer electrinics with it in a 08 mag rt.Now I have found that the TCM in my car is different than other previouse years and is more compareable to the upgraded tcm if not better.Anyway,I think that I am going to get a much more powerfull shift than what i am already getting w my diablo+the tcm.
So haw can I go about recording the transition and see how much power is really gained...Or not?
Any ideas?

inferno6.1
04-04-2010, 12:23 AM
How much power would catless HHP midpipes add to a 300c SRT-8?? Also I just ordered the Predator so will I be able to delete the rear o2 sensors with the Predator if I wanted to run the catless midpipes? Thanks a lot!

Alterocks
04-04-2010, 02:00 PM
How much power would catless HHP midpipes add to a 300c SRT-8?? Also I just ordered the Predator so will I be able to delete the rear o2 sensors with the Predator if I wanted to run the catless midpipes? Thanks a lot!

yes you can delete the sensors

inferno6.1
04-28-2010, 03:26 PM
How much power would I gain with HHP catless mids on my SRT-8?? I'm sure someone has dyno'd with this mod and knows the answer......