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View Full Version : Video: slugging it out on Laguna Seca today...



MattRobertson
05-28-2009, 01:56 AM
Spent the day at Laguna again today. Put on by TrackMasters Racing and I was in what they call the "Mixed" group, which consists of advanced drivers with a few upper intermediates who aren't quite cool with totally open passing (the intermediates get a big orange ball sticker stuck on the back of their car... not this kid).

Once you get to this level, the cars are all pretty hard core, and the drivers all pretty much know their ****. Traffic jams are at a minimum because everyone knows how to get out of the way of a faster driver if they've reached this point.

Or thats the way its supposed to work. Sometimes you have to get out a stick and start spanking.

The video opens a moment after I have entered the track. I roll straight up to a conga line made up of a slew of Porsches. Bringing up the rear is a red GT3 RS... one hot car and one jackass driver. You'll see me crawl right up his ass as he goes slow thru the corners and then refuses to let me pass by hauling ass in the straights. At one point I let an instructor by me in another Porsche so maybe that guy can lean on him and he promptly glues himself to the guy's bumper as well; having to fight his way by and I promptly fill his mirrors again. If you see corner workers waving blue flags with a yellow stripe, thats a signal to him to pull his ass over and let me by, which he ignores.

Eventually -- 3 laps later -- he went a little wide decelerating into Turn 3 and I took that opportunity to rip past him and brake hard at the last second to make the turn. Its a hair less than - or more than - something known as 'stealing an apex' and, if I crossed the line, that was a big no-no. But I didn't get black flagged for it and I think part of that was because the guy was being a butthead and everybody, track workers included, knew it. I'm *certain* he was pissed. Unfortunately you can't see my rear view mirror as he tried to keep up ... and failed. By the time the next straight came around it was all over but the laundry.

There's also a black Lamborghini that plays the same game until he leaves me an opening on the Turn 5 exit and I punch past him. This was my second time blowing past this guy and he did the same thing the first time, earlier in the day. Same result too. Ego + $200,000 car /= skill.

I made these videos hoping I could see the g-force readings on the meter I had on the dash. Looks like a failed experiment. But I did come away with some very good video running with some very fast, and feisty cars. This is just the first one.

BTW it ends with me mellowing out because I lost track of the flag station and couldn't tell if I was on the checkered lap. If I was, I couldn't pass the guy I was chasing down. So I exit early by accident and then, as I pull in, I see the checkered flag. You can hear me saying to myself "ha I only lost one lap".

Here's the video link (http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/ul/smokin052709.wmv). This is in widescreen format as usual.

I've got others. I also ran my last session on my NT-05's to give them a last chance to redeem themselves. I'll report on that in the NT-05 thread. And I recently learned something new about the durability of the BWoody sway links. That'll go into the sway link thread. Tomorrow. I'm beat. Same goes for more video. I'm sure I have at least one other good one.

Becker
05-28-2009, 02:11 AM
Always great to hear your track adventures, but that video is a little too beefy for my machine to handle. I'll get it sooner or later.

InferAl
05-28-2009, 07:46 AM
Another great video, thats awesome

redinorange
05-28-2009, 09:11 AM
That was very entertaining, Matt. Encore, encore...

Bud
05-28-2009, 11:37 AM
Nice laps Matt. I'm surprised we couldn't hear any swearing going on inside the car when the Porsche driver wouldn't let you pass...nice way to take it btw! I'm also surprised we couldn't hear the Lamborghini driver swearing over his exhaust when you passed him....cause you know he was! LOL

Couldn't pass a Miata? I know that had to be a slight blow to the ego!! Hehe

Ron380
05-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Great video Matt! I was going to ask about the blue/white Miata, if you know any details about it... LS1 motor, maybe?! ;) (Although it kinda looked and sounded like you were on a cool-down lap anyway...)

bryan_k47
05-28-2009, 12:06 PM
Hey just wondering what you a driving in the video? Your Magnum?

done
05-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Passed a lot of rolling dollars there. Did you get lap times?

Mighty Noid
05-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Matt... you have great will power...

I would have bumped that F'N RED Car out of my way.... he doesn't know how to drive at a track...

Ron380
05-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Hey just wondering what you a driving in the video? Your Magnum?

That's all Matt ever drives on a track! ;)

Worth noting though, that he has extensive modifications to his Magnum, which allow him to run with/past Porsche's like that!

(Not to mention several years of experience, too!) :not_worth

need4speed2
05-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Absolutely awesome video. That is a great example of you being a better driver/car and having the Porsche blocking. He simply was inattentive. Hate when you know your faster but the other driver has no courtesy.

Iguanaman
05-28-2009, 01:31 PM
Kick A$$ video! Thanks for sharing it!

Man, my boys are going to love it. We drive Laguna Seca on Grand Turismo 3 all the time...awesome to see it through the windshield for real. I agree with ^^^^^...that red Porsche was tickin' me off as well. I counted 3 or 4 times at least that you had him set up, and he'd cut you off apexing the corner. Nice job driving!!!

One note...about a third of the way through the vid, on the left turn before the uphill climb, sounds like you bottomed out pretty well...any damage, like maybe to the front fascia?

MattRobertson
05-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Couldn't pass a Miata?Bleaux me.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I was going to ask about the blue/white Miata, if you know any details about it... There were two things going on there. First of all, you can see I caught the guy, but he didn't pull away. I backed off because I had lost track of time and didn't pay attention to the flag station at the overpass on Turn 1, where the checkered flag gets put out. I couldn't tell if the Miata was letting me by or backing off because we were on the checkered lap. Plus the cars behind me were spacing out and not bunching up... nobody was jockeying for a pass anymore -- You are not allowed to pass on the checkered lap... its a mandated cooldown and your ass is grass if you do. So I settled in and cruised.

And while that was going on I decided to pull in no matter what. The Mazda was far enough in front of me I could see he hadn't pulled in. I had plenty of time to avoid exiting. But with all that extra braking -- and some of it behind the red GT3 RS was *severe*... that jagoff was standing on his brakes in weird places for no reason -- I had cooked my brakes to the point where I decided to call it quits. I play that one conservatively ever since I came roaring into Turn 2 one day and found my pedal going thru the floor and nothing else happening. When fluid overheats it is progressive after the overheating event, so even if you don't use your brakes after cooking them they will slowly go away regardless of whether you use your brakes again - the unspent heat in the caliper continues to boil them... so if you say "my brakes are less than I'd like but I can go on" wait for two turns and then try them ... and you got NOTHING. So I pit when I push it to that point before its too late.


Passed a lot of rolling dollars there. Did you get lap times?Yes. With all the traffic, times were not stellar. Low 1:50's, 1:51's, 1:52's. Best was 1:50.06 early in the day (cold pavement!!) when I had some clear space so I could have lowered the LX best, and wanted to do just that ... I have the new W6A's up front and ... um... removed my interior behind the front seats to save about 135 lbs. BUT there's always another day, and at the advanced level traffic is *much* more fun to deal with.


I would have bumped that F'N RED Car out of my way.... he doesn't know how to drive at a track...Pretty much. A great example of a guy with money but no track ethics and mediocre ability at best. The way he was braking in the corners, he was just plain scared. No way did that car need the kind of slowdowns he was delivering, and he was putting brakes into scary places where he should have been leaning and accelerating (Turn 9 in particular). And speaking of bumping out of the way. A lot of us, me included, thought that Setina push bumper was ridiculous.... but now. :D


He simply was inattentive. Actually, he knew perfectly well I was back behind him. Something the video doesn't have the resolution to show is the driver up front eyeballing me in his rear view mirror. Turn 2 is big for that. And look at how I enter the Corkscrew using an entirely different line than almoost all of those guys, who swing wide right, then go wide left and have to come wide right again to set up for Turn 9. Me, I'm following the tire marks left by the race cars and taking an entirely different, straighter line. When they go wide right in an arc, and I am going into that corner in a straight line, I get thru it a LOT faster, which means when that guy is arcing all of a sudden he sees me coming straight into his passenger door. I'm sure its unsettling. No way do they not know I'm behind them after just one of those. And I especially like to see a car / driver that thinks "this is where I'm gonna lose that guy" and I corner inside of them.

Or not. I was pretty sloppy on this video. Lots of places where I am letting a lot of track go unused. A combination of being pissed because I can't get around and simple sloppiness. No substitute for seat time and its been a few months since I have run this track.


One note...about a third of the way through the vid, on the left turn before the uphill climb, sounds like you bottomed out pretty well...any damage, like maybe to the front fascia?Sounds like you are describing Turn 6, which is actually halfway up the hill. No that wasn't a bottom-out. What is happening is I am hitting the blue-and-white "rumble strip" that lines the apex of the corner. Its similar to the rumble strips on the side of highways, but more severe in its construction (longer between bumps, but more squared off). Couple that to the fact that on Turn 6 (and you won't know this on Grand Turismo I think) the corner has a bank of course, but it also is sort of dished out, with the bottom of the dish at the apex itself. Your car plants *hard* right there as a result. Use that correctly and you can take Turn 6 WAY faster than you would think is possible. Thats a spot where you can punch thru the corner truly at WOT and track all the way out... to the other rumble strip on the right side up on that hill. But when you take 6, even though the car is planting its weight at that moment, the wheels contacting the rumble strip are on the inside... not bearing anywhere near the weight as the outer wheels. So you can get away with a lot. Try that on the outside wheels and you are screwed.

xlr8tr
05-28-2009, 02:18 PM
found myself yelling at my computer screen TAKE HIM!!! (not good in the office....)

higshemi
05-28-2009, 02:38 PM
Matt, great vid man.... YOu really need to get an instructor to shadow you some time with a camera mounted. Thanks for the entertainment this aft.

Steve Levin
05-28-2009, 06:37 PM
Matt, one of these days we are going to rid you of that bad habit of pinching exits! :) I saw it almost got you once bad coming out of turn 11. It's also killing your ability to get the power down and just whip by people on the straights. Remember, everything you do at the start of a stright, you pay for all the way down it.

My only other comment is that you track day guys are racing! I generally don't run that tight with other race cars are test days! Much less with highly unpredictable people. How many people were on track in a given session? I often find that going out very very last and coming out just before the first cars come around gets the most clear track time.

Steve

Hemissary
05-28-2009, 07:15 PM
You should check to see whether you can change the frame rate on your video camera to get right out out sync with the your G-load/lap-counter...

Ghostface Mag
05-28-2009, 07:16 PM
Nice video Matt..Thanks for posting...:beerchug:

Todd TCE
05-28-2009, 09:20 PM
Should have boxed him out going into the corkscrew...I used to pass people there like they were standing still. Get a run up the hill and hold your left line.....force him wide and let the tail wag the dog when you turn left; he'll move over!

MAGNUM8R
05-28-2009, 10:26 PM
Unfreaking Real Matt!!

Very nice driving Man!!

What an Abasador to the LX community, bet them little cars that you can't even get a set of golf clubs in were blown away as well.

The first red one, what a dork, you deserve kudos and a ton of respect for run like that.

I certainly hope some of those little expensive A$$ car drivers came up and told you that you and your big station wagon rock, because that is very impressive!!:racing:

I'm racing a little slower pace this weekend:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/saildoggie/avatars/teamroller.jpg

Bud
05-28-2009, 10:52 PM
Matt reminds me of a quote I had in my signature at one time. "drag racing is for fast cars, road racing is for fast drivers". Many of these guys with really expensive cars don't understand how to drive yet...Matt does. I believe if you put Matt in one of their cars and them in his, that he'd destroy them much more than you saw him do in his car. Road racing is about the driver!

Iguanaman
05-28-2009, 11:31 PM
Sounds like you are describing Turn 6, which is actually halfway up the hill.

Yep, that's the one. I looked it up here:

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Turn_by_turn_guide_to_the_Laguna_Seca_track

Man, I swore you had to have done damage. Cool that you didn't.

Coopers_Dad
05-28-2009, 11:32 PM
What a video great stuff. Sad to see that a Porsche driver is a Porsche driver even on the west coast. WTF is with those guys I found myself yelling at my screen when he would brake early and in weird spots. I had an annoyed turbo driver check me going into 1 at Mosport I only just saved my car from the wall it cost me my WRC spec front bumper though. I guess he was sad that his $150K 911 couldn't get away from my 85 XR4ti! LOL

I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to track a Magnum but it's great to be different! I'd love to see more.

BTW what was with all the smoke at the end of the video? Looked like one hell of a fire!

torRed #1169
05-28-2009, 11:44 PM
Nice run.
Great to see a magnum drive like that.

Reminds me of Chris spanking a Z06 on his 9.91 run.

Makes me want to do a race course again until I remember what a beating your car takes.

Kudos to you and your dedication my friend. :beerchug:

BigHemi06
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
Great vid thanks for sharing....nice to see an LX out there laying the smack down on some big money cars !!

JonW
05-29-2009, 12:14 AM
Nice video! It barely took over 2 minutes to download - you must have a fast synchronous connection.

While watching, I lost track of how many times I said "Get the F' off the brakes!" and "Get the F' out of the way!"...

hemiwagn
05-29-2009, 12:31 AM
Great vid! I yelled out loud when you passed the red porsche!

MattRobertson
05-29-2009, 01:00 AM
Matt, one of these days we are going to rid you of that bad habit of pinching exits! :) I saw it almost got you once bad coming out of turn 11. Oh yeah. But now that I see the other videos,it looks like I was doing it more in traffic than without, looking for a passing opportunity. That time in Turn 11 (when I spun a little and looked straight at the wall for a split second) I was definitely pinching it off so I would be in position to get by when he let me by... but oh noooo. I remember being WAY mongo pissed when I am set up to pass all nice and safe on the straight and this jackass nails it and we have to play the game all over again.

But you are dead right about the bad habit. I see myself leaving real estate untouched all over the place. Drives me especially nuts when I see me coming into 5 and coming down the middle of the track when there's nobody to pass and no reason not to be on the right.


How many people were on track in a given session?Laguna is limited to 30 cars now and thats what was there. I could have sworn the limit used to be 23.


I often find that going out very very last and coming out just before the first cars come around gets the most clear track time.I went out late on like three sessions for just that reason :D


You should check to see whether you can change the frame rate on your video camera to get right out out sync with the your G-load/lap-counter...I can see it fine if I jack up the screen size here locally. Its a hi res video. But I can't upload stuff like that for you guys. It'd be a 1gb video. I looked thru the video I posted in Post #1 and noticed a few things:


When I was stuck following the much maligned red GT3 RS I was braking around and up to .99g behind him. When I got past him the next time I took Turn 2 was .67g.
I'm over 1g lateral all over the place. I am often over 1.1g laterally. I am sometimes up to 1.19g. Best of all, the Corkscrew slews you around so fast the peak-hold meter at one point reads 1.19 left and 1.17 right ... at the same time. These g readings are in a session where I had to hold back due to traffic. I'm going to get readings on the other ones and I have to believe I am well over these numbers when left to myself on cornering and probably braking in Turn 11, where I noted .99g on my own thru there once. BTW when I spin a little coming onto the front straight I am pulling 1.15g, which seems to be the common number on that corner. I was just too fast and too pissed off.



Yep, that's the one. I looked it up here:
http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Turn_by_turn_guide_to_the_Laguna_Seca_track
Geez whoever that guy is, I hope people don't take those course directions as gospel. Just as one example His instructions for Turn 9 are totally nuts. Where he's telling people to hit the brakes I am upshifting and at least accelerating a little... when I have the balls to do it. The chute down from 8b to 9-10 is one scary express ride to hell right there. And his COrkscrew directions... why do people look at trees when they are racing on a race track? Watch the track. Gahd I cannot understand that. Cut down a tree and fifty guys crash going around the corner.


BTW what was with all the smoke at the end of the video? Looked like one hell of a fire!Controlled burn. Last session of the day you'd think we were about to get overrun it was so bad.



I certainly hope some of those little expensive A$$ car drivers came up and told you that As usual, some did and some were huffy. The guy in the second red Porsche gave me a thumbs up and a wave as we both did our paddock parades. I had a guy come up to me and just love the whole crazy idea of a wagon on the track. Asked me what the motor put out. I told him and he said "OK I don't feel so bad." I ask why already knowing the answer and he tells me he has the older late model Turbo I blew past on the front straight... actually I coasted past because I would have run down the Miata in front of me if I would have nailed it. And he was a really cool guy just out having fun with his car, as it should be. I have actually met a *lot of really nice Porsche people over the years. By and large they are a great group. But like anything else, there's that talentless doofus that sticks out and gives them all a bad name. I think you see more of them in Porsches because they are such great track cars out of the box... its just law of averages working against the marque's image.



you and your big station wagon rockHey bro you and your big boat rock :D

Guys...

Right this mnute another of two new videos is percolating in Windows Moviemaker. This is a 25-minute session, the second of the day. Its gonna be an almost 500 mb video. And I see why, maybe, the Lambo guy was being a little bit of a prick (OK a lot).

Given an extra-long 25-minute session, I had just enough time to lap his sorry ass.

:tatah:

Pretty sure I did the same to a red M3 but I haven't checked on that one yet. Stay tuned.

Iguanaman
05-29-2009, 01:18 AM
Geez whoever that guy is, I hope people don't take those course directions as gospel. Just as one example His instructions for Turn 9 are totally nuts. Where he's telling people to hit the brakes I am upshifting and at least accelerating a little... when I have the balls to do it. The chute down from 8b to 9-10 is one scary express ride to hell right there. And his COrkscrew directions... why do people look at trees when they are racing on a race track? Watch the track. Gahd I cannot understand that. Cut down a tree and fifty guys crash going around the corner.

Yeah, don't worry...I was just looking at the site to ID the turn numbers. :) I don't think I'm taking my ride to a track for a looooong time.

MattRobertson
05-29-2009, 02:32 AM
Here's the second video (http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/laguna052709_2.wmv). Seeing it full size instead of on the little video camera screen, I see I'm not lapping the Lambo. I'm passing a black Ferrari. And an M3. At the same time.

This is a 500 mb video. 25 minutes long in widescreen. Its the only 25-minute session on tape. Has some lively moments, and some spans where you can just watch the track flow by or skip forward to the parts with chases/catches.

I watched the enlarged version while it was building. On the g-meter:


Max left lateral g was 1.25, both on Turn 6 and 8a (top of the Corkscrew -- that initial hard left)
Max right lateral g was 1.18 on 8b - the hard swing right on the Corkscrew
Max braking was exactly where you'd think it would be: Turn 2 at the bottom of the hill after the front straight. Four laps over 1 g: 1.04, 1.08, 1.10, 1.11
Max acceleration was a paltry (by comparison) 0.39g

I need to get that acceleration to 1.0g. Maybe a JATO bottle.

Quick
05-29-2009, 03:49 AM
Dang... that was spectacular! I did the track experience there so I could feel all the corners. The camera really tames things WAY down. What it LOOKED like in the camera was what I was doing (I would have passed out if I was riding with you). One thing I couldn't understand. When you make the first left into the corkscrew and crest the hill you're totally blind for a half second. but the camera seems to keep the road in sight the whole time... how's that?

Gabe
05-29-2009, 05:06 AM
Great vid Matt :thumbs_u:


#2 is still downloading, will watch it later :)

CT-MSRT
05-29-2009, 06:09 AM
another amazing compilation Matt(loved vid 2). Your dedication to the sport and club is great to see. How are those monster front brakes holding up??

FlyByU
05-29-2009, 08:55 AM
Thanks for sharing, pretty cool stuff.

MattRobertson
05-29-2009, 10:41 AM
One thing I couldn't understand. When you make the first left into the corkscrew and crest the hill you're totally blind for a half second. but the camera seems to keep the road in sight the whole time... how's that?Probably because I have the camera mounted on the windshield and its at eye level, but waaay forward of where a person would be in the seat, so it can see over the hood where humans can't.

Thats a good point for people who don't know the track firsthand. When taking the Corkscrew you are turning into blue sky. You have no idea where the road is until you hit bottom (and you very nearly do hit bottom at the slope of that descent).


How are those monster front brakes holding up??Like champs. Love 'em. I wrote them up in my Wilwood thread (I'll post a link later... gotta run for now).

MikeEast
05-29-2009, 10:58 AM
That's just too cool - seeing a Station Wagon out there not only holding it's own, but surpassing some serious machinery! The sound of the motor is certain spots is way cool, like there is a ton more left and you are still motorvating on by with authority.

I look forward to every video you post - very very cool...

Mike

concussion
05-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Great video Matt... makes me want track time even more.

I'm slowly getting my mag ready... I gotta keep in the budget.

Cheers,
Burleson

RobAGD
05-29-2009, 05:59 PM
Matt edit the wiki :)

some great guys on thier forums, seems to be a lot of spec porsch racers and some open wheel stuff, not stupid busy and they are generally pretty cool.

-R

moddog
05-29-2009, 06:27 PM
Matt that is a good video it was like riding with you.:racing::racing:

need4speed2
05-29-2009, 08:17 PM
Finally got a chance to watch all of first video.

Was that a Nissan GTR that passed you about midway?

Excellent driving and looks like a whole bunch of fun.

Your car is handling great and I wonder you attribute the most credit, suspension, tires,shocks, brakes,?

Any driving classes that you have taken or recommend?

Those people you pass have got to be scratching their heads when you blow by them.

Thought our cars could handle till I got them on the track at the SRT experience and simply the weight takes over.

MattRobertson
05-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Was that a Nissan GTR that passed you about midway?Yup, and thats a first for me. The GT-R's I've run up against in the past have been easy pickings. You have to remember you are beating drivers and not cars when you pass a slower vehicle. This guy really knew his stuff and I didn't even bother trying to keep up.


Your car is handling great and I wonder you attribute the most credit, suspension, tires,shocks, brakes,?Yes :-)

Its all a package. There is no one thing, really. Everything is an incremental step and you won't be going fast and holding the car together without mech failures until you put it all together. And again the driver behind the wheel is a major component. Thats most if not all of the reason I stayed away from strip racing. On the strip, you can throw a ton of money at your car and be faster. Not on a road course, as that video amply demonstrates. Guys in little pissant Miatas can douche a Ferrari or Lamborghini if they have skills and the other guy doesn't. I don't care how much money the driver threw at the car. They will still suck until they learn to drive.

But to at least try to answer your question, tires were worth as much as the stroker motor and the suspension improvements combined. 4.5 seconds each on this track. But that comes after driving skill is earned. I could have sticky slicks but if I don't have the balls to use the and the experience to know where I can accelerate without crashing, they are worthless. You can still see me alone on the downhill slope after the Corkscrew, running in second gear. Thats my gut telling me to play it safe. When you hear my motor suddenly cut out that means I have realized what I am doing and shifted into third, which is like taking the brakes off of a rollercoaster at the top of a rise. You gotta know you can do it and know where to do it... then remember to do it.


Any driving classes that you have taken or recommend?Last season I stepped back to the novice level and started over with Hooked On Driving. They put instructors into your car for zero extra money and you work your way up thru to more advanced run groups via demonstrated merit. I dropped back because I knew that, being self-taught, my teacher sucked. I wanted to unlearn bad habits and as Steve Levin mentioned (Steve is an instructor at HoD) I have plenty of them... still. Its all about seat time and paying attention while you are in it to get rid of them.

You can also do NASA, which is much less expensive and they too are very education-oriented. However I have trouble dealing with their everybody-starts-at-the-bottom policy at my stage of development, and more importantly they pack cars onto the track out here and that means I am guaranteed days and days of slow going before I get up into the faster, less-crowded HPDE 3 and 4 groups. But when you get up into HPDE 4 its pretty rough and tumble from what I have seen. Not the place for a fancy street car.

RobAGD
05-29-2009, 08:51 PM
Matt, you are a better man than I because Ill be honest, I would have been tempted to nudge him out of the way, it at the minium pit and get the track master all over that guys but. Why in the hell was he not black flagged and whipped like the bitch that he was being ?

woof...

:ninja: rubbing is racing......

heheh


-Robert

novawagonmaster
05-29-2009, 09:03 PM
My road racing experience is limited to the Gran Turismo series on a PS2. Laguna Seca is BY FAR my favorite track. I am both envious and thankful. I would LOVE to get out there and put in some track time.

Just last week, I talked to a customer of mine who road races his WRX STi. He just about has me talked into it. My problem is not knowing when to back down. Like others have said, I would have flat out put that Porsche-driving-douchebag into the wall. Kudos to you for keeping yourself in check.

Thanks for taking the time to let us in on your experiences!

HoonLo
05-29-2009, 09:03 PM
Awesome work man! I agree that the dude in the lambo was probably wondering what the hell just passed him. It looked pretty tight with him at one point as well going into a corner?

Gabe
05-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Awesome work man! I agree that the dude in the lambo was probably wondering what the hell just passed him. It looked pretty tight with him at one point as well going into a corner?

Hehehe ... you just reminded me of one of my favorite car commercials ever .... :mrgreen:



EOXMZF8ajQY

Ron380
05-29-2009, 10:19 PM
^ THAT commercial is why TTMR owns a Magnum! ROFL!

Matt- just finished the 2nd video. GREAT way to spend 25 minutes!! I was only watching the film and had a great time! haha That black "pissant" Miata looks like my new toy I got last month, except mine doesn't have the neat wing on the back! I'll be autocrossing it this year, and hopefully next year have it (and ME) ready to take it "on the road (course)". :mrgreen:

Have Fun havin' fun Matt! :pepper:

It amazes me that the "supercars" generally don't run that fast... Granted, they cost more than my house, but doesn't anyone who owns one of them actually want or know how to turn it loose? (to really run them near their potential) The one's I saw last year at Mid Ohio were lightning quick in a straight line, but then I often kept right with them through the corners, and I'm just not that good yet!

Bud
05-29-2009, 10:54 PM
^ THAT commercial is why TTMR owns a Magnum! ROFL!

Matt- just finished the 2nd video. GREAT way to spend 25 minutes!! I was only watching the film and had a great time! haha That black "pissant" Miata looks like my new toy I got last month, except mine doesn't have the neat wing on the back! I'll be autocrossing it this year, and hopefully next year have it (and ME) ready to take it "on the road (course)". :mrgreen:

Have Fun havin' fun Matt! :pepper:

It amazes me that the "supercars" generally don't run that fast... Granted, they cost more than my house, but doesn't anyone who owns one of them actually want or know how to turn it loose? (to really run them near their potential) The one's I saw last year at Mid Ohio were lightning quick in a straight line, but then I often kept right with them through the corners, and I'm just not that good yet!

I'll give the guys at the track (road course) props for taking steps to learn how to drive them. Every thread I see on various forums compares our cars to supercars based ONLY on the quarter mile. When I went to Bondurant they started us out on Ford Crown Vics for the first day to learn vehicle dynamics. The next 4 days were in Mustang GT's. They humored us the sixth day by letting us drive Z06's. But, they made it know that we were no where near driving it to its full potential. We did a ride along with Bob Bondurant and he showed us it's full potential....and he was in his 70's! Like many have said...it's about the driver.

Ron380
05-29-2009, 11:13 PM
I know what you mean, Bud! I TRULY do! I got to go for a ride at Mid Ohio with my instructor in his Corvette... I now know what it means, "professional driver on a closed course" (in his own car, no less!) I'm not at all ashamed to say I got sick after 3 laps! Don't worry, we made it into Pit Road in time. I was NOT going to make a mess in his 'Vette! FYI: I'm the 3rd person he's made ill with his car. LOL Just for a quick comparison... I was taking it kind of easy and going 100-105mph down the back stretch. He was going about 165-ish!! :shock:

Roller-coasters hold no charm for me any more...

RobAGD
05-29-2009, 11:30 PM
LOL Ron.... damn he was flying....

That dude poor GT was just sad for how it was being driven that is for sure....

-R

MattRobertson
05-30-2009, 10:29 PM
If by GT you mean the black Mustang, he was actually pretty close to that car's limit. GT's and even the Shelby's are weak on road course manners. Its that solid axle in the rear. A total waste of money to buy that car if you like to take corners. The specially-Shelby-built versions have independent rear suspension and better brakes. That changes everything and I'd like to get another crack at one this season.

Here's the third video (http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/laguna052709_3.wmv). This is the first morning session, I think. The fog has lifted but the sky is still overcast.

Remember the first lap is under yellow and borrrrinnnng.

A little red Miata that blows past me early on. Its an instructor driven car and I spend the rest of the session chasing after him, the both of us moving thru much of the field in the process.

Being an early session this is not the most nailbiting of the bunch. The other two vids were better.

Shelby
05-30-2009, 11:29 PM
Great videos Matt!

If I was driving some of those super cars (Porsche, Lamborgini, etc.) you pass in a Dodge station wagon I would just give up. Mario Andretti in a 4000+ Dodge station wagon should not be able to pass cars like that, and if he passed me I would still consider giving up since I clearly can't drive.

Some of these people don't know all the exciting mods Matt has done, but even if they did they should still be passing him...it is just not right.

What do you tell the wife (girlfriend) or friend when they ask why that car passed you in your super car? Can you imagine if the guy in the Porsche had a video camera? It looks like he is doing a decent job, the track is great, the engine really sounds nice, the tires are squealing a bit and *BAM* ... there goes a station wagon which then disappears in front of them.

The other odd thing I notice is Matt is running with a bunch of cool cars- but I never see them pass him. (I know the GT-R went past him, must have been Mario driving). Matt should make a list of the other cars out there with him so we can know what is not passing him and which vehicles we never see.

Matt is really doing a great job- makes the Magnum look like a super car.

Cam
05-30-2009, 11:55 PM
Cool Matt!!.

xevilpetex
05-31-2009, 03:00 AM
If by GT you mean the black Mustang, he was actually pretty close to that car's limit. GT's and even the Shelby's are weak on road course manners. Its that solid axle in the rear. A total waste of money to buy that car if you like to take corners. The specially-Shelby-built versions have independent rear suspension and better brakes. That changes everything and I'd like to get another crack at one this season.



I wouldnt go so far as to say that the live axle on the mustang really lets it down on the track. Ive heard some real good things about the refinements they've made with the 2010 GT's and there have been decades of people making some real fast mustangs around the track.
Just look at what companies like Griggs racing (http://www.griggsracing.com/) can do with the platform. Or even go so far as to look at the mustangs in the Koni challenge. The current top 3 teams in this seasons standings are running live axle mustangs with a bmw team in 4th and a porsche 911 team in 5th.

You have to look at a stock GT mustang with the same eyes as a stock R/T LX.

MattRobertson
05-31-2009, 12:26 PM
I wouldnt go so far as to say that the live axle on the mustang really lets it down on the track.
If you had driven against a Carroll-Shelby-built GT500 with an independent rear suspension your opinion would be different. Those cars can corner properly.

Its tough to get out of my head the picture of a GT500 whose inboard front wheel lifted off the ground in sharp corners while the other three wheels stayed planted. When I asked WTF that was all about the answer came back "solid rear axle" (and I would think a very stiff chassis).

...look at the mustangs in the Koni challenge. The current top 3 teams in this seasons standings are running live axle mustangs with a bmw team in 4th and a porsche 911 team in 5th. If you professionally prep (i.e. rebuild) a car and compare it to other professionally prepped cars all bets are off.


You have to look at a stock GT mustang with the same eyes as a stock R/T LX.

Really I look at the GT500's when I make that judgment, and my judgment is based on how consistently easy they are to pass. A GT is indeed completely outclassed, just as a stock RT would be. But a GT500 is a $50,000+ MSRP car and in that class there's no excuse for such core weakness unless the manufacturer knows its market consists of people who don't care (i.e. strip racing).

Gabe
05-31-2009, 02:00 PM
The GT500 has a solid rear axle .....

MattRobertson
05-31-2009, 03:09 PM
But the Super Snake special editions built at the Shelby factory are really done up right. Aluminum block to reduce weight. Wilwood brakes for better braking under extended (road race) conditions, a lot more boost on the blower and... an independent rear suspension. I got my ass handed to me by one of those when, at the same day, during the same session, I did the same thing to a Ford factory model.

Hmmm. I just went to the Shelby site and, looking at the specs (http://www.shelbyautos.com/news.asp?id=15), they don't say anything about an independent rear, but I know what I saw under the car. Plus those specs say Baer brakes and the guy had Wilwoods. Maybe that was a one-off I got run over by.

xevilpetex
05-31-2009, 04:08 PM
Really I look at the GT500's when I make that judgment, and my judgment is based on how consistently easy they are to pass. A GT is indeed completely outclassed, just as a stock RT would be. But a GT500 is a $50,000+ MSRP car and in that class there's no excuse for such core weakness unless the manufacturer knows its market consists of people who don't care (i.e. strip racing).

My point was that you aren't stock and you cant compare how your car does with a full coilover/sway/bushing set up against what might be a stock suspension car, Gt500 or not. Ford didn't build those cars specifically to race on road courses. They are marketed to the muscle car crowd with an emphasis on the drag strip. A place where with some drag radials they do real well.

If you want a GT500 that will rip up a road course then like almost any car you need to put work into the suspension. There are lots of very good options available to turn a mustang of any option level into a very fast track car.

Now Jermey Clarkson is a bit of an ass but here's a good clip highlighting the difference.
Good, bad, ugly clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejH1GS9hK2E&feature=channel)

formerice
05-31-2009, 07:18 PM
Here's the second video (http://lelandwest.com/auto-tech/magnum/laguna052709_2.wmv). Seeing it full size instead of on the little video camera screen, I see I'm not lapping the Lambo. I'm passing a black Ferrari. And an M3. At the same time.

This is a 500 mb video. 25 minutes long in widescreen. Its the only 25-minute session on tape. Has some lively moments, and some spans where you can just watch the track flow by or skip forward to the parts with chases/catches.

I watched the enlarged version while it was building. On the g-meter:


Max left lateral g was 1.25, both on Turn 6 and 8a (top of the Corkscrew -- that initial hard left)
Max right lateral g was 1.18 on 8b - the hard swing right on the Corkscrew
Max braking was exactly where you'd think it would be: Turn 2 at the bottom of the hill after the front straight. Four laps over 1 g: 1.04, 1.08, 1.10, 1.11
Max acceleration was a paltry (by comparison) 0.39g

I need to get that acceleration to 1.0g. Maybe a JATO bottle. HEHE, Seriously, is nitrous illegal? There were about 10 times that a 1-2 sec blast of nitrous would have zipped you right past the red Porsche! Great video! My computer took like 12 hours to download, slo ass dialup.:blam:

ET1970
06-02-2009, 06:05 PM
Matt,

There has been a lot of talk about proper tire pressures and brakes and other equipment to outfit these cars for the best possible road racing. But one thing that I have not seen anyone speak of is proper suspension set up. You have changed out the stock bushings so Iím guessing you have spent some time on dialing in the properly chamber, caster, toe etc. to maximize your tire footprint in the turns. So, with that said I was wondering if you let us know what you are using as your base suspension setting and what changes you make for various tracks and why you have made those changes. I know that each person has different setting that suit their driving style, but Iím looking for a good starting point so that I can set my car up for VIR and than make changes from their that fit my driving style. I currently putting on the Pedders bushings and have order the new XA coil-overs and shocks.

I have run Laguna Seca and other tracks in California before but not with trying to set up the suspension. I have run my 96 LT4 Corvette there and have a reasonable setting that I like but those setting will not transfer to these ledsleds.

Thanks for any input that you have.

MattRobertson
06-03-2009, 12:03 AM
You'd be surprised. Since I have to drive the car to the track, and the track is often 300+ miles away (Thunder Hill is more than that) I have to worry about tire wear. So if I crank up the negative camber I screw myself over for tire wear even worse than I do just by tracking the car.

I had the car 4-wheel aligned just a couple of months ago. First of all, without a Pedders or similar setup you don't have any way to adjust camber. And with the older style Pedders offset bushings, you can have issues with your bolts coming loose and the bushings re-clocking themselves. Talk to Pedders about it and they will give your installer some advice on how to do your best to avoid that. I've had mine slip now twice and what happens is you get full camber... on one side of the car. What I need to do is replace the bolt hardware for a good fix, I believe. Its not the end of the world.

Anyway, with my goal being to have a good middle of the road setting my camber was set to -3 in the back, which isn't a lot, and I believe less than that in the front. I formerly had -5 and it was too much in terms of uneven tire wear. This is one of those subjects where I have left the details to the pro after outlining what it is I want. [email protected] - who among his many talents also can do racing alignments - brought me up to speed on everything he was doing, and I was there watching a lot of it, but really after this much time its a little blurry.

Regardless, whatever the details of my settings, they are set up so as to not sacrifice highway wear/tear... especially since not only are my track drives long... my commute when I make it in the Magnum is 310 miles each day. Naughty tire wear adds up quick in that environment.

That enforced ignorance of mine will likely change at some point as - at Bob's suggestion, I intend to get my hands on a field camber/caster/toe kit and start taking measurements at the track so I can at least tell when things have slipped out of alignment. As it stands now, the plan is to recheck it on the 4-wheel rack every few track days. Not cheap to do. I'm hoping the Pedders upper rear adjustable control arm comes out and is reasonably priced as IIRC its another way to deal with the camber issue that isn't prone to slippage.

Steve Levin
06-03-2009, 12:28 PM
-3 is pretty significant negative camber I would think. I think on the SRF we are only running slightly more than that on the fronts and just about that (3.2 I think) on the rears.

My guess would strongly be that in a car with as much power as an SRT you'll find on the rears the best setup will be only light (maybe 1 degree) negative camber, so the tires are as flat as possible for putting down the power. Remember the tradeoff to more negative camber will be a slightly better cornering load, but less patch to handle the power on the exit.

Beyond -3 on the fronts I would think is a huge loss of street-ness. Even -3 has got to be wearing the tires in daily driving?

Steve

MattRobertson
06-03-2009, 02:05 PM
Beyond -3 on the fronts I would think is a huge loss of street-ness. Even -3 has got to be wearing the tires in daily driving?On the rears, no. I don't know what the fronts are set at. The situation with the rears is complicated by the fact that the camber adjuster has slipped. Again. My tires are side-specific so I am switching back to front when I go to the track to minimize the problem as much as I can before I take it in to get fixed again. Hopefully for the last time.