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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpInSmoke View Post
    Correct.
    So much for oil analysis...
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  2. #32
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    Wanna add my .02. What would happen if you added an extra quart of oil to get more splash as was describled in the video? Also think about the old tappet style motors where the lifter slid on the cam vs if a roller locks up why it doesnt simply slide. Its a serious lack of lubrication. Could small holes be drilled, say in the main oil galley to squirt oil onto the cam/lifter? Thoughts??
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar2ya View Post
    Wanna add my .02. What would happen if you added an extra quart of oil to get more splash as was describled in the video? Also think about the old tappet style motors where the lifter slid on the cam vs if a roller locks up why it doesnt simply slide. Its a serious lack of lubrication. Could small holes be drilled, say in the main oil galley to squirt oil onto the cam/lifter? Thoughts??
    I didn’t watch the video yet. But I do know that the ramp rate on the cam lopes are different between solid tapper lifters and rollers.
    I’ll have to watch to see what “splash” you’re talking about. You shouldn’t get any crank splash up to a cam.


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBL.DWN View Post
    I didn’t watch the video yet. But I do know that the ramp rate on the cam lopes are different between solid tapper lifters and rollers.
    I’ll have to watch to see what “splash” you’re talking about. You shouldn’t get any crank splash up to a cam.


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    The splash from the crankshaft throwing oil up on the cam

  5. #35
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    Several things wrong with this video.

    First off, he is using a Pre-eagle engine block. Which did not have lifter failures as much as dropping valve issues. Lifter issues are the most heaviest around 2011. He mentions lifters are splash lubed, yet if you look in the lifter bores there are oil gallies feeding the lifters.

    Second, MDS been around since what 2004? So if MDS was a direct cause wouldn't every single Hemi with MDS have it? Not to mention even without MDS castings are the same in their respective year ranges.

    That video has alot of mis infomation in it while claiming to be like the final say so in the issue without actually being in depth, or even using the right engine block. Much less the fact he NEVER showed the actual failure point in the lifters themselves.
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  6. #36
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    So how are the rollers lubricated? The rollers are whats seizing, so its either a lot if bad rollers/needles or lack of lubrication. Whats so different from the eagle head vs 1st gen mds heads?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar2ya View Post
    So how are the rollers lubricated? The rollers are whats seizing, so its either a lot if bad rollers/needles or lack of lubrication. Whats so different from the eagle head vs 1st gen mds heads?

    Goooooooood Question. Without a bare block to honestly look at I can only surmise the low pressure galleys that feed the lifters do dribble down on to the cams and roller. Honestly if one thinks that splash or oil throw from the crank is able to some how manage to cling to the cam, then cling to the rollers, and then somehow climb even further up into the bearings while all the while the not only is all the parts moving fast, the entire lifter is kinda in no direct line of shot of said oil being thrown off crank is kinda not thinking. Honestly I would wager there is ZERO crank oil splash (crank dipping into oil) due to the fact the hemis oil pan gasket is a simple windage tray, and oil thrown would have to be ejected from the connecting rod journals. Not to mention crank splash would cause so many issues and rob power.


    Far as the heads, the Eagle heads any many revisments. I suggest reading here about them,. 5.7L HEMI Anatomy | Know Your Parts

    I do wanna say the lifters also get oil from the pushrods via the rockers. I wanna say this is where the oil that lifters use to pump up comes from but I am unsure as there is very little info on the actual oil galley design and flow on these engines I can find via google.

    However I honestly would love to see a naked Gen III Eagle block to dig into and see. I know on much older and entirely different engine, the Willys L134 has oiling squirt holes on the rods. When building them the manual states the Oil squirt holes goes away from the camshaft which for a flat tappet engine would seem off but isn't. Still the cam gets the oil it needs. And these engines like many others do like having crank hit oil to "splash" lube stuff. That is just off as this froths oil, slings it massively around and robs power.


    The facts show:
    That not all Hemi engines are effected by this. If it were a direct casting issue then there would be more failures. UNLESS the year range of high failures is from a flawed production casting run.
    That Idling is not a cause as there are some Pursuits with 7K idle hours and still okay. However some cars in civilian world have little idle time and still suffer same fate.
    2010-2012 are some of the Worst years for lifter failures in the hemi to date. There have been other failures outside this range. However this is going off report failures including a thread on the ram forums where they kept track fo years ranges.

    In all honestly the amount of failures per number of units built and in service is small, otherwise there would be TSB or Recalls implemented via lawful action.



    Of course, these are my opinions based on physical evidence and previous old engine knowledge. I may not have as much experience as some but I also do not have a Youtube channel that's makes money. Gonna tell a story tell it in full and not just easy guessing parts.

  8. #38
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    I looked at a bare block today. The cam is very insulated from splash. I wonder about drilling some 1/2 holes in the valley to access the oil galley under the cam. Then drill a few small holes in that galley or add something like a piston squirter to add oiling to the cam, then put plugs in the valley holes..

  9. #39
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  10. #40
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    If I honestly had to take a shot at root failure. It is def in the lifter roller bearings. With my lifters I saw complete difference in failed vs not failed.

    Here is the main failed Lifter. Intake No. 5



    Here is a cylinder (I forget which) that was also in process of failing.



    Notice the lack of that blue tinged HOT metal on the surfaces even where metal was contacting metal? if there was a total lack of lubrication there would be discoloration.

    Here are two samples of the roller bearings. Take wild guess which ones were the failed set and which ones not.




    I stand to argue that the roller bearings are of crap quality and degraded eating the lifter pin, eventually jamming and eating the cam lobe surface.

    Oddly, I did see damage to the camshaft that also brings to light another theory. Spring Pressure. There was damage that looked like the lifter may have hammered the cam shaft a bit which could but this type of wear onto the bearings and causing failure. Bad or wrong springs could cause this. This is my 2nd theory of failure root cause.

  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar2ya View Post
    I looked at a bare block today. The cam is very insulated from splash. I wonder about drilling some 1/2 holes in the valley to access the oil galley under the cam. Then drill a few small holes in that galley or add something like a piston squirter to add oiling to the cam, then put plugs in the valley holes..
    The SRT blocks if I am not mistaken have something like this, except instead of cam oiling they are squirting pistons for cooling vs any actual lubrication. There are many who block them off as the squirters will not clear stroker kits.

    Keep in mind that you are diverting oil feed, and oil pressure and can create alot of issues else where if the system is not kept in balance. Oil will go path least resistance. Open a big hole one place and it will not flow to others . That would be my concern.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar2ya View Post
    That I am pretty sure is the galley that feeds your main crank bearings.

  14. #44
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    I was also thinking of the main difference 08- to 09 was taller valve train. Can heavier springs and revised Eagle valve train cause rollers to fail?

  15. #45
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    Yeh, a 2013 @132k miles, and if it's a factor a supercharger, I am holding my breath.

    Great oil analysis numbers, silent running, I'll just replace her with upgraded components.

    Lifter No.5 failing seems to come up often. Both MDS & non-MDS seem to happen. I have my MDS disabled in the tune.
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