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Thread: Puzzled!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    There’s no way you don’t have compression. You would know. There would be oil clouds following you everywhere (bad rings).
    Or your valves would all need to be stuck open, that’s not gonna happen, or your spark plugs aren’t in (and you would know that)

    The engine is turning over slowly. The clacking sound could be the solenoid kicking the starter into the flex plate.

    Even if it isn’t you’re starter, then your battery is toast.

    Or ... your valves are not opening, and your not getting any fuel or air, and your only building compression. It does not sound at all like it’s freewheeling.

    Didn’t you say you rebuilt your rocker arms?
    Yes I did replace hydraulic lifters.... I get what your saying about the bendix jumping on and off the flex plate, thats not happening. The engine spins over and starts eventually. Its gotta be top end. The stupid door chime killed the video. 2 hours to upload a 2 minute video.

    It only does it after the oil is at running temperature and the car is parked overnight I've noticed. Manual gauge shows 65 cold at idle and 28 hot. 50+ at cruise hot.

    Guess I just need to swap another set of rockers on it and see if that corrects the issue.

    Again, once I get it started first time of the day it starts and runs fine! Craziest crap I've ever experienced. Ive built 100+ vehicles.

    Begining to think that damn car is possessed by a bitter old cat lady that hates men........
    Last edited by CUUDA; 04-05-2021 at 05:52 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Another set of rocker? Why do you think the rockers are causing this?


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdm7 View Post
    Old trick I've heard - tap the starter with a hammer to see if you can shake things loose. How does a hammer fix a starter? | Parkside Motors
    Hammer fixes a lot of things. Puzzled!

    2005 ViperBit 3.5L

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUUDA View Post
    Yes I did replace hydraulic lifters.... I get what your saying about the bendix jumping on and off the flex plate, thats not happening. The engine spins over and starts eventually. Its gotta be top end. The stupid door chime killed the video. 2 hours to upload a 2 minute video.

    It only does it after the oil is at running temperature and the car is parked overnight I've noticed. Manual gauge shows 65 cold at idle and 28 hot. 50+ at cruise hot.

    Guess I just need to swap another set of rockers on it and see if that corrects the issue.

    Again, once I get it started first time of the day it starts and runs fine! Craziest crap I've ever experienced. Ive built 100+ vehicles.

    Begining to think that damn car is possessed by a bitter old cat lady that hates men........
    Next time it happens, Can you set up your camera at the front of the engine while you crank it over?

    You’ll need to rename your car “Christine”

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUUDA View Post
    Yes I did replace hydraulic lifters.... I get what your saying about the bendix jumping on and off the flex plate, thats not happening. The engine spins over and starts eventually. Its gotta be top end. The stupid door chime killed the video. 2 hours to upload a 2 minute video.

    It only does it after the oil is at running temperature and the car is parked overnight I've noticed. Manual gauge shows 65 cold at idle and 28 hot. 50+ at cruise hot.

    Guess I just need to swap another set of rockers on it and see if that corrects the issue.

    Again, once I get it started first time of the day it starts and runs fine! Craziest crap I've ever experienced. Ive built 100+ vehicles.

    Begining to think that damn car is possessed by a bitter old cat lady that hates men........
    The only way it would have no compression is if the valves were stuck open. That's not how bad lifters work. I still am betting on the starter. Do you know for sure that the engine itself is actually spinning over? Check that before you tear the engine apart! Start with the simple things first!

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTSDart340 View Post
    The only way it would have no compression is if the valves were stuck open. That's not how bad lifters work. I still am betting on the starter. Do you know for sure that the engine itself is actually spinning over? Check that before you tear the engine apart! Start with the simple things first!

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
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    Well he’s there, and we aren’t, so we kinda need to go with the info he’s giving. I totally agree it does not sound like the rockers and it seems technically impossible.

    I’d bet... it’s a bad battery. I’ve seen it happen, when a couple of cores go bad. Everything “seems” to work fine, until it requires a load. I think the starter is engaging (cause he says it is) but it’s turning the engine over too slowly and providing a weak spark at the same time. Eventually it will start when he gets a lucky spark. Then the remaining working cores take a charge from the alternator so the ECU hasn’t MIL’ed it.

    This is one of those cases where if he was local, I’d drive over and help in about 5 seconds. You’re right, always eliminate the simple stuff first. Toss a known good battery in there and see what happens. A bad battery can be a bitch to diagnose sometimes.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    Well he’s there, and we aren’t, so we kinda need to go with the info he’s giving. I totally agree it does not sound like the rockers and it seems technically impossible.

    I’d bet... it’s a bad battery. I’ve seen it happen, when a couple of cores go bad. Everything “seems” to work fine, until it requires a load. I think the starter is engaging (cause he says it is) but it’s turning the engine over too slowly and providing a weak spark at the same time. Eventually it will start when he gets a lucky spark. Then the remaining working cores take a charge from the alternator so the ECU hasn’t MIL’ed it.

    This is one of those cases where if he was local, I’d drive over and help in about 5 seconds. You’re right, always eliminate the simple stuff first. Toss a known good battery in there and see what happens. A bad battery can be a bitch to diagnose sometimes.
    I'd think a bad battery would cause a slow crank, not a normal crank with no compression. If there's compression there's compression, period. It's not something that can come and go... If the valves were stuck open they'd have hit the pistons by now. I just don't see any possible way it could be internal. A bad battery maybe, but again I'd expect a slow crank as the weak starter fights the engine mechanicals.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
    1968 Dodge Dart GTS, 340/727
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  8. #38
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    Puzzled!

    Quote Originally Posted by GTSDart340 View Post
    I'd think a bad battery would cause a slow crank, not a normal crank with no compression. If there's compression there's compression, period. It's not something that can come and go... If the valves were stuck open they'd have hit the pistons by now. I just don't see any possible way it could be internal. A bad battery maybe, but again I'd expect a slow crank as the weak starter fights the engine mechanicals.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
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    Listen to the video one more time. To me it does not sound like the engine is turning over quickly / normally at all.

    You can hear compression strokes, but they are very very far apart.

    Go listen to your starter. See if you think his sounds the same at all. I’ve got $5 on the battery. LOL!

    IMO, If it was lack of compression, there would be an oil field on the back of his car.

    Edit: But at the end of the video, it does seem it starts, and it sounds bad. Which is confusing, and the clanking right at first is odd as well. Might be a few things hitting all at once. Battery and lifters.

    What if he had sticky seals that are holding open the valves just enough to where when they do contact the piston they snap closed?
    Last edited by reefstar; 04-05-2021 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    Listen to the video one more time. To me it does not sound like the engine is turning over quickly / normally at all.

    You can hear compression strokes, but they are very very far apart.

    Go listen to your starter. See if you think his sounds the same at all. I’ve got $5 on the battery. LOL!

    IMO, If it was lack of compression, there would be an oil field on the back of his car.
    Just watched the video. That sounds like a starter free spinning to me, with the gear trying to engage without success. Those clicks don't sound like compression to me. The battery may be low, but my money is on the starter itself.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTSDart340 View Post
    Just watched the video. That sounds like a starter free spinning to me, with the gear trying to engage without success. Those clicks don't sound like compression to me. The battery may be low, but my money is on the starter itself.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
    1968 Dodge Dart GTS, 340/727
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    2016 Dodge Durango Limited
    There are 3 guys right now with 3.5L engines issues I’m talking to on different forums that all live too far away! Puzzled! (BTW I edited my last post, see what you think)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    There are 3 guys right now with 3.5L engines issues I’m talking to on different forums that all live too far away! Puzzled! (BTW I edited my last post, see what you think)
    I can't explain the running bad, unless it's from excess fuel pumped in during all the start attempts? My old 72 Dodge used to do that, if it didn't start right away it ran badly at first once it did fire up. (I know I'm comparing a carburetor to fuel injection, but it's the same idea, the injector squirts fuel in when you try to crank the engine). It could be sticky valves, but again that seems very unlikely, unless there's weak valve springs, but again that would cause driveability issues, which the OP says he doesn't have. He's claims it runs great when it does run.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
    1968 Dodge Dart GTS, 340/727
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    2016 Dodge Durango Limited

  12. #42
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    What’s the cranking rpm?


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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTSDart340 View Post
    I can't explain the running bad, unless it's from excess fuel pumped in during all the start attempts? My old 72 Dodge used to do that, if it didn't start right away it ran badly at first once it did fire up. (I know I'm comparing a carburetor to fuel injection, but it's the same idea, the injector squirts fuel in when you try to crank the engine). It could be sticky valves, but again that seems very unlikely, unless there's weak valve springs, but again that would cause driveability issues, which the OP says he doesn't have. He's claims it runs great when it does run.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
    1968 Dodge Dart GTS, 340/727
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T
    2016 Dodge Durango Limited
    I tend to find that complicated / strange problems have a simple solution that is throwing other things off and send you on a wild goose chase.

    Big problems are pretty clear what’s causing them.

    This has every sign of being the former type.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    I tend to find that complicated / strange problems have a simple solution that is throwing other things off and send you on a wild goose chase.

    Big problems are pretty clear what’s causing them.

    This has every sign of being the former type.
    And that's why I'm saying start simple. The starter is easy to check, as well as making sure the engine is actually turning over. As I said, my money is on a bad starter. Judging by what the OP says, it doesn't sound like any kind of internal engine issue. It could even just be a loose starter bolt! It seems that for whatever reason the starter is not engaging the flex plate.

    1949 International KB2, 302/T5
    1968 Dodge Dart GTS, 340/727
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by reefstar View Post
    next time it happens, can you set up your camera at the front of the engine while you crank it over?

    You’ll need to rename your car “christine”
    bingo! ??????

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