Mods Face Off Result: AirHammer Intake

[330toSRT8]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by joseph
	And to discuss your point, not only is the intake getting more air this way, since the hood is open, after all this is how we drive, right, with the hood open , but there is no heat soak in that situation either, 2 things that probably made the numbers bigger than they are, but don't mention this to anyone or we'll be banned for not saying congrats to rev and all his friends. http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...=42414&page=14

More air? It's not like the engine compartment is air-tight so why would there be less air? There's plenty of air coming from underneath the car.
Also, they waited 10 minutes between runs. Why would there be heat soak regardless of the hood open or closed? The hood position during a run does not determine heat soak.

[CoolVanilla]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by joseph
	Don't go there or you'll get bad reps from all the REV's followers, like I got for expressing my scepticism in the other thread when I said there was nothing amazing about another tube and big filter that is just like frankentake and AFE2. And to discuss your point, not only is the intake getting more air this way, since the hood is open, after all this is how we drive, right, with the hood open , but there is no heat soak in that situation either, 2 things that probably made the numbers bigger than they are, but don't mention this to anyone or we'll be banned for not saying congrats to rev and all his friends. http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...=42414&page=14

No no no; you're not doing this here joseph. You have a problem, work it out in private. If you cannot, PM an admin. No more here, or anywhere in public for that matter. That is a warning.

65 to answer your question; its absolutely a fair comparison. The fan blowing is for after run cooling and during run safety concerns only; we are, after all dumping copious amounts of carbon monoxide inside a room during each dyno pull. I think we calc'd the velocity of the fan to be equivalent to 25mph? These dyno runs end at 120ish mph. (This emulates a worst case for any intake; but remember, its always the same for ALL of them, so the relative changes between any given set of intakes is still of utmost interest)

Now, consider the manometer done brought to the event; it read right around 1.2" of water; this means that the suck force of the AirHammer is almost equal to that of no suck at all. The design of this thing essentially allows for the easiest draw of any intake we tested! Point there is that even with the hood closed and no air ramming down its throat (since the car sits stationary and is not at 120 on the freeway somewhere) it draws better than anything we tested, by a long shot.

For comparison of that manometer; the stock box has been tested at right around 5.5" of water.

And regarding heat soak. We've evolved to the point where we can now safely say that the 5 minutes between pulls has effectively eliminated it; and that is something anyone looking at the progression of runs (as in the chart) should be able to see right away if they make even the slightest effort to understand before spouting off.

[DawsonMagnum]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by joseph
	Don't go there or you'll get bad reps from all the REV's followers, like I got for expressing my scepticism in the other thread when I said there was nothing amazing about another tube and big filter that is just like frankentake and AFE2. And to discuss your point, not only is the intake getting more air this way, since the hood is open, after all this is how we drive, right, with the hood open , but there is no heat soak in that situation either, 2 things that probably made the numbers bigger than they are, but don't mention this to anyone or we'll be banned for not saying congrats to rev and all his friends. http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...=42414&page=14

Oh, please! You were not ONLY expressing skepticism...you chose to be rude while doing so. And, to top it off, you tried to throw doubt on his personal and moral ethics! Why can't you own that you did this instead of trying to BS others by saying you were ONLY expressing skepticism.

And, oh, by the way, if you would have bothered reading all the messages in the relevent threads, you would have seen that they dyno numbers were from runs made WITH THE HOOD CLOSED!

First you were rude...now you are feigning innocence as well as displaying ignorance. Nice trifecta!

[CoolVanilla]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by DawsonMagnum
	And, oh, by the way, if you would have bothered reading all the messages in the relevant threads, you would have seen that they dyno numbers were from runs made WITH THE HOOD CLOSED!

Indeed. To be absolutely clear, we actually tested the small S&B with the hood closed, and the large with the hood open (just wouldn't fit). In fact, I did make a single pull with the hood open for the small size as well (a "throw away" test), and found zero difference between the expected numbers. The hood open, on a stationary test bench like this is just not a factor of concern guys.

Please, lets keep this about results now and move forward with the questions and answers. Any discussion beyond that I ask you take up in PMs. Thanks!

[Rev.Hammer]

Thank you !
I knew that if ANYONE would test this intake without bias it would have been CoolV and the gang !
I know that they would NOT hesitate to tell me exactly what they found with no sugar coating or smoochery.
Good or bad, I knew they would be honest with me and everyone else!

[IDD]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by CoolVanilla
	No no no; you're not doing this here joseph. You have a problem, work it out in private. If you cannot, PM an admin. No more here, or anywhere in public for that matter. That is a warning.

With all due respect......

Not doing what here? What is his problem?

What did I miss......was he insulting?........did he name call? I can't find evidence of that anywhere.

I think it's only fair to question how the test was done. ( i.e. was the hood open?...closed?.....was a fan acting as a ram air intake?.....did anyone dyno with NO air filter, and would that be the best we could hope for if not for the 'dirt ingestion' factor.......then with the other intakes?) Questions that may or may not be relevant, but raise more questions when a response like yours is given.

Why was he given a warning and what does the warning mean? Is he not to question what was done, or just not question who did it?

Please help me understand this!

p.s. I see the Hammer Air Intake is already for sale.

[UnderTaker]

i'm impressed with the numbers -

now i feel like kicking myself for spending all that money on the Mopar CAI...

how can i justify spending all that money on something i already have....... hmmmmm - i'm sure i will think of something.

[Hurst Equipped]

it is not a fair comparison in my opinion. the filter sticking out in the open air away from the hot motor. this is not the same as the filter sitting in a tight corner shrouded by the fender, power steering, the hood, and the hot engine.

if you want a pat on the back for how great this design is, then close the hood and let's see the real comparison to matt's intake. believe me, i think the rev has the best design so far, but let's make it usable. i am not mocking here, but you are biased on this system.

[CoolVanilla]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by 65standard
	it is not a fair comparison in my opinion. the filter sticking out in the open air away from the hot motor. this is not the same as the filter sitting in a tight corner shrouded by the fender, power steering, the hood, and the hot engine. if you want a pat on the back for how great this design is, then close the hood and let's see the real comparison to matt's intake. believe me, i think the rev has the best design so far, but let's make it usable. i am not mocking here, but you are biased on this system.

Incorrect regarding the biased statement; claiming this not only insults me personally, but the integrity of our tests. Methodology discussion is one thing, but do not imply we have an agenda here.

You're entitled to your opinion, however unfortunately for you, the facts simply do not support your supposition. You're assertion that the intake needs to be inserted into the bay with the hood closed is in direct contradiction to over 200 dyno pulls of validation, as well as expert, on site consultation. I leave it to the experts, the contributors and futures buyers of these products to weigh the relative strengths of our opposing views.

This is probably a great time to remind you why we do this: we are here to discover the truth. If we sugar coat the results, how in the world can OEMs like Rev produce us a product that works? Its in all our interest to find out exactly what a given system's strengths AND weaknesses are; how else can improvements be made?

I say it again, if you have a problem with the methodology or execution of these tests, lets discuss it! But not here; PM me directly from now on. This place is for hard evidence discussion, not half thought out impressions.

[CoolVanilla]

First post updated with the power graph.

[UnderTaker]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by 65standard
	it is not a fair comparison in my opinion. the filter sticking out in the open air away from the hot motor. this is not the same as the filter sitting in a tight corner shrouded by the fender, power steering, the hood, and the hot engine.

i think it was stated somewhere on the first page that the DYNO run had the hood closed, i belive the video was just to give us (somewhat) of an idea as to what the monster sounds like.

[Hurst Equipped]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by CoolVanilla
	This place is for hard evidence discussion, not half thought out impressions.

i forgot i only had half a brain. it's cool. have a nice day

[IDD]

I'm so confused......

Dawson Magnum said...."And, oh, by the way, if you would have bothered reading all the messages in the relevent threads, you would have seen that they dyno numbers were from runs made WITH THE HOOD CLOSED!"
Cool Vanilla then says..."Indeed. To be absolutely clear, we actually tested the small S&B with the hood closed, and the large with the hood open (just wouldn't fit).
Cool Vanilla goes on to say...."I say it again, if you have a problem with the methodology or execution of these tests, lets discuss it! But not here; PM me directly from now on. This place is for hard evidence discussion, not half thought out impressions".

I want to know why this has to be handled in PM's as opposed to on the boards for all to see. Obviously all is not black and white as the earlier posts indicate. A concensus is difficult to reach as to whether the hood was up or down, and if being up or down makes any difference at all.

Many more questions will arise after thoughtful reflection. Will those need to be addressed on a PM basis only?

If so, then that takes the most important part of the LX Forums out of the equation.....it's members.

[IDD]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by UnderTaker
	i think it was stated somewhere on the first page that the DYNO run had the hood closed, i belive the video was just to give us (somewhat) of an idea as to what the monster sounds like.

Cool Vanilla said the hood was open (wouldn't fit).

[CoolVanilla]

OK, lemme start from the top:

	Quote:			Originally Posted by IDD
	I'm so confused...... Dawson Magnum said...."And, oh, by the way, if you would have bothered reading all the messages in the relevent threads, you would have seen that they dyno numbers were from runs made WITH THE HOOD CLOSED!" Cool Vanilla then says..."Indeed. To be absolutely clear, we actually tested the small S&B with the hood closed, and the large with the hood open (just wouldn't fit).

What I said is correct.

	Quote:
	Cool Vanilla goes on to say...."I say it again, if you have a problem with the methodology or execution of these tests, lets discuss it! But not here; PM me directly from now on. This place is for hard evidence discussion, not half thought out impressions".

This isn't the first time we done this; rather, its the result of over 1 years worth of experimentation, and 4 other events just like this one. Its methods are a direct result of open discussions here, as well as with true experts in this field. Those that were at the event, or who logged in and watched the video feed got a front row seat to this process, that I freely admit continues to evolve!!

What we have to be so careful about is making statements that do not take into account the mountain of evidence to the contrary; for the casual reader, that flat out torpedo's our efforts to boil this stuff down to a level that can help the shady tree mechanic.

	Quote:
	I want to know why this has to be handled in PM's as opposed to on the boards for all to see. Obviously all is not black and white as the earlier posts indicate.

Well, truly it is. This impression of grey is what I hope to avoid by taking things to PM; so that I can explain and answer specific questions in a one-on-one dialog that helps both sides learn!

	Quote:
	A consensus is difficult to reach as to whether the hood was up or down, and if being up or down makes any difference at all.

Again, no its not. Reading carefully here is critical, and this off topic methodology discussion detracts from the results themselves

	Quote:
	Many more questions will arise after thoughtful reflection. Will those need to be addressed on a PM basis only? If so, then that takes the most important part of the LX Forums out of the equation.....it's members.

I hope my above comments help clear this part up.