All things being equal

[turbohips]

OK so I'm trying to make sense of why we are slower than RWD cars.

Fact: we are around 300 pounds heavier which equals around .3 in the 1/4.

We have around 25% drivetrain loss vs. 15% for RWD. This would mean only around 30-40 HP difference right?

With both of these factors, we still wouldn't pull the times that RWD guys are pulling.
With the corrected times for DA the fastest AWD should be around 13.0-13.1 in the 1/4. If we got an extra .3 for the weight we would be at 12.7-12.8 with 0 DA. Add an additional 30-40 HP due to drivetrain loss and we would be at around maybe 12.5-12.6.

How is it that RWD guys with the same mods than us are running so much faster? I'm starting to think it's also due to gearing. With better gears I'm sure that we could match their times if we were to use the calculations that I noted here. Of course we would still be slower but at least even given these factors.

Your thoughts?

[done]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	OK so I'm trying to make sense of why we are slower than RWD cars. Fact: we are around 300 pounds heavier which equals around .3 in the 1/4. We have around 25% drivetrain loss vs. 15% for RWD. This would mean only around 30-40 HP difference right? With both of these factors, we still wouldn't pull the times that RWD guys are pulling. With the corrected times for DA the fastest AWD should be around 13.0-13.1 in the 1/4. If we got an extra .3 for the weight we would be at 12.7-12.8 with 0 DA. Add an additional 30-40 HP due to drivetrain loss and we would be at around maybe 12.5-12.6. How is it that RWD guys with the same mods than us are running so much faster? I'm starting to think it's also due to gearing. With better gears I'm sure that we could match their times if we were to use the calculations that I noted here. Of course we would still be slower but at least even given these factors. Your thoughts?

First, we only weigh 186 pounds more. Second, where is written that we have a 25% drivetrain loss. Third, don't play with DA corrected times. The RWD has 2.82 gears, we have 3.07 gears.

You may proceed now.

[stevesrt8]

there it was...

25% loss, that's horrific! Then add in the weight of another drivetrain. I'm kind of surprised at the figure you quoted.

Jeez, that's even worse than I thought it was.

[Token]

Need some clarification...

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	OK so I'm trying to make sense of why we are slower than RWD cars. Fact: we are around 300 pounds heavier which equals around .3 in the 1/4.

Closer to 200 pounds from what I understand.

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	We have around 25% drivetrain loss vs. 15% for RWD. This would mean only around 30-40 HP difference right?

I've seen nothing about driveline loss percentages, where is this from?

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	With both of these factors, we still wouldn't pull the times that RWD guys are pulling. With the corrected times for DA the fastest AWD should be around 13.0-13.1 in the 1/4.If we got an extra .3 for the weight we would be at 12.7-12.8 with 0 DA.Add an additional 30-40 HP due to drivetrain loss and we would be at around maybe 12.5-12.6.

This seems a little off too. I've run a 12.846 in positive DA

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	How is it that RWD guys with the same mods than us are running so much faster? I'm starting to think it's also due to gearing. With better gears I'm sure that we could match their times if we were to use the calculations that I noted here. Of course we would still be slower but at least even given these factors.

We already have better gears, as Don noted. Also, I've tried running with a shorter tire (more gear) and got SLOWER times. Not once, but several times, so figure that one out.

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	Your thoughts?

If you wouldn't mind sharing where you got the figures from I'd appreciate it.

[done]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by stevesrt8
	there it was... 25% loss, that's horrific! Then add in the weight of another drivetrain. I'm kind of surprised at the figure you quoted. Jeez, that's even worse than I thought it was.

The 25% drive train loss figure has not been verified.

[madeulooq]

What figure are we talking about here exactly? the 25% loss? Any guesses if its not 25%?
From the very few and I mean few dyno numbers I've heard the stock AWD does between 245 & 250 awhp.

I thought the weigh difference was 200lbs, I actually saw that figure on a Brochure last weekend.

[turbohips]

OK I was only going off what others have said about the 25% loss as I have never gone on a dyno. For the weight difference, on the sticker on my car's door it shows around 300 pound difference. I have full options so maybe thats the difference. Token, for running 12.8 in positive DA that is truely awesome. Did you lighten your car to get there?
So now I'm even more confused. We have better gears and shouldn't weight that much different than RWD's. How the hell are we so much slower then? Everything you guys say is countering any reason why we are slower yet there is nobody that can explain why. If our weight isn't much different and our gears are better then we might lose more than 25% in our drivetrain?
If we truly get around 245 stock to the wheels then with a stock block being 340 HP we have roughly a 28% loss.

[mexi]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by turbohips
	. For the weight difference, on the sticker on my car's door it shows around 300 pound difference. I have full options so maybe thats the difference. .

whats on the door is gross weight any how... you need to put your car on the scales to know . and if you have full options and rwd has full options wouldnt it be the same difference?

stop harping on DA... that is a guess of what it will do in better air.
if you dont like the track or DA you run in make a road trip like most everyone eles and stop paper racing other cars.

[Joepar]

Can't say for sure since mine is RWD not AWD but I will say that watching you guys launch at the LX & B nats I was jealous and very impressed. If we (RWD) are faster it can't be by much (drivers race) and you guys should be way more consistant I would think.


Joe

[mexi]

awd are very consistant but when a modded rwd with slicks and a stall hooks its a lot of difference in the 60ft . if they could stall like say the srt8 jeeps and leave like that the story would be alot different.

[Rottyfan]

Could the difference be the tires? I doubt the fastest RWD times were run on stock tires. Everything else being equal, of course.

[mexi]

i ran a 12.66 on stock conti tires...tires does make a diff but awd are not exactly seeing wheel spin issues

[Hemi31]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by mexi
	awd are very consistant but when a modded rwd with slicks and a stall hooks its a lot of difference in the 60ft . if they could stall like say the srt8 jeeps and leave like that the story would be alot different.

Gotta disagree with that......the LX's with DR's will match the 60' times of the Jeeps too. After owning an AWD I have to say it's in the torque management,or something else electronic.........just won't let the damn thing run.

[turbohips]

mexi I don't know why it seems that you have a grudge with me and tend to follow me around down talking me. Get a life for real buddy. I have no issues with you. Matter of fact I don't care to ever hear from you again. Have a good life.

As it stands now I'm pretty much over modding this car and looking forward to my next project coming in soon which would smoke any car here on a road course. I'm so sick of the band wagon people here bashing anyone different and then chasing them on various forums to do it again and again.

RCR SL-C here I come.

[mexi]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by Hemi31
	Gotta disagree with that......the LX's with DR's will match the 60' times of the Jeeps too. After owning an AWD I have to say it's in the torque management,or something else electronic.........just won't let the damn thing run.

i guess i should be more clear on my statements lol . i know that the rwd will match them and beat them on the 60'..doesnt the fastest 60ft belong to a rwd lx?

i was meaning that if they could launch like a jeep srt it would be night and day in the awd's e/t's