Paceguy and I put on my headers this past Saturday, and what a ride it's been...
We were pretty sure of ourselves after getting aspendog's on the weekend before, and even with double checking (we thought) and a few "comedy of errors" events, we have yet a few more lessons to share...
First, make sure that you attach the O2 extensions to the car after getting off the old headers, and before putting on the new ones. That way, if you need to file the little tabs, you don't have to do it around the pipes.
Second, make sure those little buggers are on tightly. I had one slip off (more on that later).
Third, make sure that you have ALL 4 extensions put on. On aspendog's car, it was impossible to not use all 4. For some reason on mine, one was long enough that we didn't notice that the extension wasn't in place. That combined with the fact that one had fallen off the rack and INTO some shadow where it wasn't seen until the next day ensured that I was short an extension.
What ended up happening was that one of my pipes is too close to one of the cross-supports underneath the exhaust, and it rattles. When I first hearrd it, I thought that one of the pipes had fallen off and was dragging. It sounded bad. Since one of the extensions isn't there, there is a little imbalance between the readings FROM between the sensors, not good, but not the end of the world. Since one of the extensions was loose, it became detached. Very bad. The computer started throwing an absolute fit, it ran REALLY roughly especially at idle, and had almost no power until 2nd (always shifted FROM 1 to 2 at redline). That along with the rattling pipes, you knew that car was coming FROM a LONG way away. I thought for awhile my car was going to eat itself. :(
So, the computer got pissed off enough that I had to take it to the Dodge dealer (where they can teach the computer what it needs to learn) and of course this is the first Magnum that they've seen with headers, so they weren't even sure what it SHOULD learn.
The good news is that they figured it out so it's running great, I learned that my dealer is willing to work with you on aftermarket stuff, and I got a few pointers and a story to post here.
I'm really pleased with the outcome, even if I did get a little bit more grey hair in the last 4 days. It's much more responsive (I still need to take my "after" numbers with ronneyf's FX2), and it sounds good. I'll be posting again in a few days after I get the pipes adjusted so the final rattles are taken care of and I get the header bolts re-torqued and get a chance to run those after numbers, I'll be posting again with those.
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Thanks for the posting and installation tips! Describe the sound difference if you can; and do you have an aftermarket exhaust?
WOW, that sucked. I ended up just dumping the cross member because it rattled on bumps. I am glad you guys got it worked out and still am sorry about not being able to help, I would have much rather been working on a car.
Are you running a aftermarket cat back as well? Is it a different make than Aspendog? How do they sound compared to each other with the headers if they are different? So it just ended up rattling against your crossmember Aspendog and you got rid of it? Glad to see people working on their own cars and passing on the info to the other guys :D Man I can't wait!!!!!
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I still have the stock cat-back, aspendog has the Magnaflow (I think - is that right aspendog?). The Dynatech slips in much easier to the stock system than it did to the Magnaflow.
With the stock cat-back, the sound difference is minimal until you stomp on it. I noticed very little difference inside the car with "traffic" accelerations, and no highway drone. Stomping on it sounds nice and grumbly, but still isn't super loud. I am thinking about adding the Borla 112 cat-back maybe later this year to get the real performance sound.
Aspendog's with the Magnaflow sounds like it's leaving you in the dust when it's sitting still at an idle, it's beautiful. I don't think I'd get that by the wife, and really I don't know if I want it to be that loud all the time. But that's me, I know that there are many on this forum that want theirs to be much louder than I do.
Oh, I also noticed that since the computer has been made happy, I'm getting about 3.5 MPG better than I did before getting the headers on. That's only been one trip of less than 20 miles though, so I wouldn't bank on that yet...
Aspendog-Originally Posted by aspendog
You missed a good time. The guy who owns the garage we were working in was there this weekend, seems like a cool, knowledgable guy. He had his 63 Vette at a SHOW last weekend, which is why we didn't see him then. What a work of art that car is, I was blown away.
Have you noticed any ill effects of removing that crossmember? It's a pretty sizable chunk of metal, I figured it has to be there for some reason...
What exhaust shop did you use to retorque your headers? I figure that it'll be here close so I can run over there during work without problem, and since they've done yours, they will already know what's going on Have you had any problems with them loosening up anymore after that first re-tightening? I'm not noticing that mine are leaking yet, but that may be because the pipe / crossmember rattling is louder...
I went to Meineke just north of BeltLine on Midway. That crossmember IMO is there to hold up the stock exhaust, with the all stainless setup I have I don't think there will be any issues. Hell even after installing the Magnaflow I had to shim it lower with washers... It is gone for now. I have not heard any leaks since then but have been looking for some new header bolts that will lock down better than the ones that came with the headers.Originally Posted by 05MagnumRT
So initially, where you getting the CHECK engine light, or did it just run crappy? Do you have just the headers or the headers, midpipes and high flow cats? I'm curious if Dynatech's second production run of the headers will eliminate the clearance issues! I'm a little worried about the set I ordered now that i'vr head of all of the issues!
05 Blaze Red Magnum RT, Dynatech Headers, Midpipes and high flow Cats with Borla Cat Back!
There should be enough "play" in the headers that you can have somebody push up on them while they are still loose on the heads to help them clear better while you tighten them up, and then shim the crossmember like aspendog said he had done originally. If not, then do like he did after the fact and remove the crossmember to avoid the rattling. And the car ran badly (according to what I've read of his original post) that the lack of HAVING one of the extensions was enough to confuse the piss out of the cars computer. Don't install without the extensions in all 4 points and you should be fine......and make sure the O2 sensors are in securely! Don't sweat the install lbstone :D
05magnum, what effect did the headers have on the warranty, and was the fix on the O2 under warranty
I put the Magnaflow on the day after I bought the car (5 months ago), and removed the X-member then...no problems/rattles, etc., and a 200 lb man can hang FROM the pipes without the system moving (proven while on rack ).Originally Posted by aspendog
I've got the headers through the cats.Originally Posted by lbstone
The CHECK engine light was on before it started running roughly. At first I wasn't overly concerned because the Dynatech instructions say that the CHECK engine light may come on because the sensors are heating at a different rate than they normally do (it sounds like this should be learned and not be a problem in a short time). Of course when it started getting rougher and rougher, I started panicing :?
The crossmember that is being hit is actually under the stock pipes connecting the cats to the suitcase. It's really just that when I tightened the clamps on the connection between the cats and those stock pipes, I let the pipes hang a little too much. I don't think this is an issue with the Dynatech product.
My understanding is that the headers really don't affect the warranty unless DCX can prove that whatever problem in question was caused by the headers. I only had to pay the $80 "computer diagnostic" fee at the local dealer to have them straighten this out. The car was there for all of Monday and half of Tuesday for this.Originally Posted by bosco
Do you know any of the specifics in terms of the type of input or information the dealership fed your car to cure its ailment?
Just out of curiosity, is the first step of installation disconnecting the neg terminal on the battery? I would imagine that this would matter since the current still flows through the car even when its off. When you disconnected the stock sensor leads, it may have picked up a malfunction in the system that was not easily reversed.
I think I am going to disconnect mine. Everything else I've put on, air intake, TB spacer, Jetchip module all had it listed as the first step so the computer can reset itself to new parameters.
Makes you wonder...... :idea:
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