Hydrolock (a.k.a. Petrolock) w/Predator Write Fail Condition

[richierevs]

Abstract

This knowledgebase post describes a potential hazardous and damaging condition that may occur due to corrupt PCM/ECU software. This condition may occur when restoring the original base tune from the Predator.

Predator Write Fail Condition

While attempting to restore the original base tune to the PCM/ECU the Predator returns a write fail error after attempting the verify the write. When this condition occurs the Predator cannot be updated (CROM update) nor can the Predator be used to restore any prior tunes to the PCM/ECU.

Under normal lockout conditions the Predator and the PCM/ECU may need to be sent to DiabloSport to be reset. A reset by the dealer (StarScan) may not correct the lockout.

Important Rare Case

In very rare cases the PCM/ECU may become corrupt and may cause the fuel injectors to cycle at or near their full duty cycle during a Key On, Engine OFF (KOEO) condition.

The symptom is a rapid clicking sound coming from under the hood in an around the intake manifold. The clicking sound is the injector selenoids firing in rapid succession.


In this extreme and potential harmful and hazardous condition it is important to do the following:

• Turn-off key immediately!!
• Disconnect the Negative (-) Ground on the Battery
• If uncertain of how to fix, make arrangements to have the vehicle towed to either a reputable service center or dealer.
• Check oil level to determine if it is abnormally high (sign of gas in the oil).
• When vehicle is lifted onto tow truck, inspect the area for signs of oil/gas spillage. Use appropriate material to cover and soak up oil/gas.
• Call the service center and indicate the potential seriousness of the situation. Make sure they understand!!! Under these conditions, THE ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE CRANKED. Cranking the engine under hydrolock can cause severe damage to pistons, rods, valves, and even the engine block resulting in a costly repair.

Servicing Hydrolock


To resolve a hydrolock condition do the following (for illustrative purposes only, refer to service manual for details):

• Remove the fuses for the ignition and fuel pump (see owners manual for fuse location).
• Remove coil packs.
• Remove spark plugs from all cylinders.
• Disconnect mid-pipes from CATS/Headers. Allow any oil/fuel to drain.
• Cover the fenders with protective material.
• Assure that the area is clear on both sides of the engine compartment.
• Connect battery.
• Reset PCM/ECU to enable engine crank (if necessary).
• Using a scope, examine each cylinder for potential damange. STOP!!! DO NOT PROCEED IF DAMAGE IS PRESENT!!!
• Change the oil (precautionary in case of fuel contamination)
• Crank engine to allow excess fuel to escape (may exit cylinders in forceful streams).
• Disconnect battery.
• Using compressed air, blow out any excess fuel from the cylinders.
• Clean/Replace spark plugs.
• Replace coil packs
• Replace fuses for ignition and fuel pump.
• Reconnect mid-pipes to CATS/Headers.
• Connect battery.
• Crank and start engine.
• If engine runs normally, allow to warm up to operating temperature; otherwise, STOP!!!

[cleary524]

Richie,
Did this happen to you recently? Any idea on what happens in the tune writing process that the Predator is either writing this corruptly or how the ECU/PCM is mapping that script as corrupt?

How many cases of this have been reported and will this be something that may happen to any Predator owner at any time?

Most importantly is Diablosport aware of this condition and working to figure out why this is happening and how it can be written out/resolved?

Good report and this is useful information to all owner's of Predators on these LX vehicles.
KC

[richierevs]

Richie,
Did this happen to you recently? Any idea on what happens in the tune writing process that the Predator is either writing this corruptly or how the ECU/PCM is mapping that script as corrupt?

How many cases of this have been reported and will this be something that may happen to any Predator owner at any time?

Most importantly is Diablosport aware of this condition and working to figure out why this is happening and how it can be written out/resolved?

Good report and this is useful information to all owner's of Predators on these LX vehicles.
KC

To my knowledge, I'm the first one to have this happen to this degree and magnitude--my original short block is toast. My engine is now in the process of being rebuilt with much assistance from Chris Dufresne (Hemi~C~). There have been other undocumented cases, all be them less severe, where tunes have been either inaccurately or incompletely written via the Predator. Fortunately, no one else has had my misfortune, and I hope through this knowledgebase post it remains that way.

Statistically, this event may appear insignificant (rare) even though it's impact is substantial ($$$$), at least personally. I've been in the computer industry since 1972 and there is a phenomenon called "bit rot" which is the unintentional and unplanned change of software during read/write processes. I am unfamilar with the technical design of the Predator and the ECU/PCM so I won't speculate on their error-correction methods, although I believe there is some form of checksum being used. I only hope someone at DiabloSport takes the event seriously. Time will certainly tell.

[gooeytek]

that is the scariest thing i've ever heard of in my life. damn.

[richierevs]

that is the scariest thing i've ever heard of in my life. damn.

I took pains to ensure that the knowledgebase post was informative (descriptive and prescriptive) as to raise awareness and thwart complacency; but, not cause panic. Forewarned is forearmed.

[lafrad]

Well, something to consider is: even the dealer can have this trouble. They plug your car into the wall charger and take all sorts of careful measures when flashing your car.

Do you do that every time you use your predator? I know I don't.....

[richierevs]

Well, something to consider is: even the dealer can have this trouble. They plug your car into the wall charger and take all sorts of careful measures when flashing your car.

Do you do that every time you use your predator? I know I don't.....

True, there's a certain amount of risk anyway you look at it. I guess in my case I played Russian Roulette once to many.

[cleary524]

Knowledge Base Thread, from Diablotoona as DS.

[richierevs]

Knowledge Base Thread, from Diablotoona as DS.

Thanks Kevin. Better that other forum members pick up the torch on this, especially since it appears that DiabloSport has replicated the problem. A yellow warning label should be put in every box and every registered Predator owner should be contacted. It's the customer-centric thing to do.

I could play the hapless victim, but class-action will have a far greater effect in fixing things than the efforts of one individual.

[wildwilers]

Well, something to consider is: even the dealer can have this trouble. They plug your car into the wall charger and take all sorts of careful measures when flashing your car.

Do you do that every time you use your predator? I know I don't.....

My mechanic who i TRUST, said NOT to write to the cars pcm without having a wall charger hooked up,if you can help it!!SOMETHING to keep in mind!
Since iam new too the predator this sort of incident scares the hell out of me!

[Mopar_Charlie]

R you all talking about just a battery charger or what? And now that I just purchased my Pred. I don't want to use it. I sure as hell can't afford a new motor.

[mullens]

Yes. Every time I flash my car I throw it on the charger. Cheap insurance.

[Shane B]

Damnit!! you guys are feakin me out now.Im running 9r12,with just a canned tune,do I need to worry?

[richierevs]

No need to freak out. Just use common sense beginning with the recognition that the PCM is a special purpose computer that can malfunction if the software becomes corrupt. To protect yourself and your investment always make a backup of the original tune in your PCM as well as the latest tune in your car. If you get a custom CMR tune, make sure the tuner will not lock the tune into your Predator; otherwise, you won't be able to make a backup of the tune. And, when doing a tune change, use a battery charger especially if your battery is over 24 months old, or your car has been sitting for an extended period of time.

Lastly, if you're unsure of a condition, don't panic, seek advice here on the forum. That's what we're here for.