the end of Grand Caravan

[formerice]

To me the Dodge brand means something that lasts forever. I learned to drive a 1943 Dodge WC when I was 6 yrs old. You could probably bounce a .45 bullet off one . I'm sure that truck still runs. A Fiat means something that has the life span of a , dare I say it, a fart in a breeze. I guess brand name isn't worth much anymore. So far my Dodges have impressed me with their longevity. When I was in the Netherlands, I was introduced to a car club of owners of WW2 Jeeps and the Dodge WC trucks. Those guys seem to understand. I didn't see any old Fiats, but was surprised to see a bunch of old Dodge trucks still running.

[done]

its all part of fiat's long term plan to kill the dodge brand.



Sergio Marchionne's leadership at Fiat-Chrysler - Dec. 7, 2011


Marchionne believes that his future belongs to two brands -- Jeep and Alfa Romeo -- that he is prepared to take global. Chrysler and Lancia will remain local brands, anchored in the U.S. and Italy, respectively. And Dodge likely withers away. Marchionne has already separated out its pickup trucks from the new Ram brand, and given sole rights to Chrysler for the minivan now marketed as the Dodge Caravan.

You do understand that the Dodge comment was the article writer's opinion and not a quote from Marchonne

[sound&security]

It is a carry over from the old days, prior to 1975 when there were really different cars in each brand and most had their own engines and did not use a common platform. Most of you probably don't remember the "stink" raised when the 75 Olds came out with a (gasp) Chevrolet engine.

i remember when GM was sued for droping olds 403's in trans am's and caddys and people hit the roof when their caddy brougham had a chevy 350 in it

[done]

i remember when GM was sued for drooping olds 403's in trans am's and caddys and people hit the roof when their caddy brougham had a chevy 350 in it

As usual, you have it wrong. I was also shopping for a new car in 1977 when this happened. So I have first hand knowledge. Were you out of diapers yet?

GM was sued by Oldsmobile owners who were angry that GM installed "inferior" Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobile-branded cars. GM settled the suit and then claimed that all engine designs were "Corporate" property, so they could install any engine in any car without buyer recourse. Any number of Pontiac Trans-Ams have an Oldsmobile engine; as did Cadillac Sevilles.

eBay Guides - GM Big Block 455 engine families--A primer

[EvilSRT]

Damn... that dude will have to put the rear facing seat in his maggie now...

[Bryali]

...makes no sense to have multiple makes from the same company sell the same car under different names.

IF the cars were vastly different in design and parts fine.. But just for names sake it's stupid..


Fiat is trying to brand the Chrysler line.

Chrysler = luxury higher end

Dodge = muscle / sport

Ram = Working class trucks

Jeep = off-roaders.



it makes more sense that each line be dedicated to a specialty rather than copying each other..

I can totally get on board with this. Treat each brand and model as its own entity rather than just re-badging the same piece of crap. To me: Chrysler inspires images of luxury for the common man (or woman, so I don't offend the PC crowd), Dodge inspires pure muscle and performance, Ram=tough truck--nothing else, and Jeep just belongs off-road (not in the suburbs parked at Starbucks). Put each brand where it belongs and market each vehicle that way. You don't see Mercedes trying to create an off-road vehicle comparable with the Jeep CJ's. They know their market and stick to it (very well) so Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Fiat should too.

[sound&security]

As usual, you have it wrong. I was also shopping for a new car in 1977 when this happened. So I have first hand knowledge. Were you out of diapers yet?



eBay Guides - GM Big Block 455 engine families--A primer

You really dont remember in 76-77 customers freaking out at the same time over the olds motors and chevy 305 and 350s in caddys? customers were pissed off because their caddys didnt have caddy motors..

[done]

You really dont remember in 76-77 customers freaking out at the same time over the olds motors and chevy 305 and 350s in caddys? customers were pissed off because their caddys didnt have caddy motors..

Did you not read my entire post? The legal action was over Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles. GM settled and then said they would put "corporate engines" in any brand that was appropriate. This also was the begining of the "coporate platform" and the end of brand specific engine plants.

[sound&security]

Did you not read my entire post? The legal action was over Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles. GM settled and then said they would put "corporate engines" in any brand that was appropriate. This also was the begining of the "coporate platform" and the end of brand specific engine plants.

I worked at bayview cadillac in 1977. lot boy /detailer
Mechanic's were pulling out the chevy v8's out of brand new cars and replacing them with the olds v8.... that was a short lived problem... The olds diesel was a giant turd. Pump problems.. customers were pissed off their caddys had chevys in them..the olds motor was looked at as a better motor..some went with it and others didnt.
Pontiac did the same thing with the trans am's
403 olds or order the 6.6 pontiac motor. olds motor was 5 hp less then and pontiac but made 5 more pounds of torque and was a even trade off so one one really complained

[karfreek]

You really dont remember in 76-77 customers freaking out at the same time over the olds motors and chevy 305 and 350s in caddys? customers were pissed off because their caddys didnt have caddy motors..

There was no freak out over the 305 in Caddys because it did not happen until 1985 and was a welcome change to the HT-4100 which people hated. The 350 did not hit the Fleetwood until the 1990s refresh and was embraced because the town car had the 302 and 200+ hp for a couple of years. I know this, my dad is a diehard caddy owner and car guru. There was a sigh of relief when the 305 & 350 hit the fleetwood.

Jay

[karfreek]

Pontiac did the same thing with the trans am's
403 olds or order the 6.6 pontiac motor. olds motor was 5 hp less then and pontiac but made 5 more pounds of torque and was a even trade off so one one really complained

Not true. Plain and simple. The 403 was mates to the auto, the 400 to the 4 speed. This was in 1979. The 400s were really 1978 castings and left over engines, when they were gone they were gone.

The olds was 180 hp. The 400 was 220. The shaker had different call outs too. T/A 6.6 for the 400, 6.6 Liter for the 403.

Jay

[Tomsriv1]

I agree it is a very bad idea. When you think minivan you think Dodge Caravan. I also like the idea of having two similar cars from two different brands. Have you seen the Caravan R/T? The Macho Minivan! You couldn't pull that off with Chrysler because the brand has a different personality. I'm really sad to see Dodge gutted out because they spent the last decade making it the bold brand. Their reputation as a macho brand is second to none.

Also, when you have different but similar cars because sometimes one looks better than another. Usually GMC trucks look better than Chevys. All the 68-72 Chevelle, Cutlass, Skylark, Lemans/GTO looked distinct and badass!
Its not always the best marketing ploy: Ford always claims to have the best selling truck, but that's because GM buyers are split between GMC and Chevy.

[Tomsriv1]

Actually even the 38 Buick Limited shared a chassis with my 38 Cadillac. That was the beginning of sharing for economy of scale. Is it an idea whos time has ended? I think advertisers like to say "Best selling in its segment" and that sort of thing. So if you have cars compete against each other then you can't make that claim. I have never and will never buy a car because its "best selling in its segment", but I know uninformed people will. Even at my job, they buy Ford trucks because they can justify it to management by saying its the "best selling".

[Inferno Hemi.]

This blows my mind.... Maybe I'm a bit too tired to take it all in.

I thought it was just me when I thought about two different brands being an Identical vehicle almost.

Venture, Montana, Olds Van- G5, Cobalt- the neon etc etc...

[fabian421]

IMO:

Kill the Durango, modify and offer a third-row option in the Grand Cherokee.
Kill the Grand Caravan, offer the T&C with AVPish base options. (Not everyone wants leather, trust me).
Kill the Patriot, lower the Compass base price.
Offer a Ram factory-based equivalent of the SVT Raptor. (Laramie Longhorn was a joke)
Redesign/replace the Avenger/200 ... ALL new sheet metal, not just front and rear. (We get laughed at when compared to the Honda/Nissan mid-sizers)

And please...please...please...design an ad campaign around the Pentastar V6. It is that awesome. (and then add boost)

Give us some hooks to climb out of Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep's hole with. I still get complained to about boat-anchor Ram pickups from the 80s. These stigmas are real, and a huge hurdle when trying to sell these things.

Buy American. Long live C/D/J.