MTCM relearn?

[Moparjake]

Hey guys,

I just recently installed my new MTCM, i followed the instructions with the paper that was provided to perform the relearn. The coast downs from 5-4 and 4-3 and a few of the upshifts I then parked the car running for about ten minutes and took off. The car is definitely shifting differently but it still doesnt feel right. If I smash it to WOT the car stay in its current gear for a couple seconds and then it'll down shift along with a few other wierd shifts, ect. Is there a way to know if the relearn was or was not done properly or did or did not take? Also if it was not done properly what kinda havok could this be performing on my tranny? Is this something the car will adjust to over time?

Any tips or tricks to doing this relearn?

As always thanks guys!

-Jake

[PlumCrazyDaytona]

Jake, did you verify the temps within your transmision when you did this procedure? Also you kept the car running for ten minutes after the last coast down correct?

[aslcharger08]

I never did that procedure, just threw the TCM in the car and drove it like I stole it. Never any issues.

[Moparjake]

I didnt verify the temps but the booklet said to let the car idle in Neutral for one fan cycle, which I did. I also did park it for about 15 minutes after I did the procedure. Im just worried it didnt take because it just seems to be acting funny. It could be that im just used to how the car drove prior with the high stall and whatnot. My main worry was just that I dont mess up my tranny.

-Jake

[aslcharger08]

Did you reset the adaptives on the transmission via predator? I would just reset the trans adaptives and drive the car with some aggressiveness.

That is always what I have done.......

[ojmcneill]

Yeah, that's the thing with the MTCM, you get so nervous on how you do the adaptation process. I actually checked my tranny temp using my Tranzformer and it worked like a charm. For a little while, it'll seem weird, but gradually it'll come on. The thing I tell people is that it's hard to tell by using it, but the first time you have to go back to the stocker, you'll definitely notice. It's friggin night and day. I pulled mine bc I was doing some other work and just put the stocker in and then de-tuned using the predator. MAN, my car felt like it was shifting through maple syrup. Trust me, put some miles on that bad boy and you'll be good. Does second gear feel like it's locking up sooner? If so, you did it right.
Take her out and drive the hell out of her. I think sometimes we forget these are sports cars, made to be flogged baby.

[Moparjake]

I didnt reset the adaptives...ill give that a shot.

Your right on being nervous....the whole time i was sitting there saying "please dont brick, please dont brick, please dont brick" Ill take her out and beat the snot out of it!

Thanks for the help guys

-Jake

[Hemissary]

If you value your transmission and drive the car hard...you "must" follow the process exactly as it is laid out in the instructions. Failure to do so means any of the values stored within the TCM are useless.

The are valid reasons for properly following instructions, in this case...it's important. Why is this so difficult to understand...

Resetting the adaptices only alters drivability parameters; it has zero effect on those already inaccurately-stored transmission operating parameter values. Now, the only way you can undo and relearn properly is to have a StarSCAN or MOBILE dump that basic operating parameters file...and properly perform the adaptives procedure.

[Moparjake]

If you value your transmission and drive the car hard...you "must" follow the process exactly as it is laid out in the instructions. Failure to do so means any of the vlaues you stored are useless.

The are valid reasons for properly following instructions, in this case...it's important. Why is this so difficult to understand...

Resetting the adaptices only alters drivability parameters; it has zero effect on those already inaccurate stored transmission operating parameter values. Now, the only way you can undo and relearn properly is to have a StarSCAN or MOBILE dump that basic operating paramters file...and properly perform the adaptives procedure.

I did follow the instructions, exactly how they were laid out in the sheet that came with the module...I was mostly concerned with whether or not there was a way to tell if the process "took" and what the outcome would be if they didn't.

What your saying is that id have to have a starscan hooked up to dump the basic parameters to even have this work properly?

-Jake

[Hemissary]

My apologies; I thought I read that you did not carefully observe specifically the transmission temperature PID while performing the TCM (any TCM actually) adaptation process and(!) ensure the coast-downs and adaptations called out were conducted within the specified temperature ranges.

If you did not do the above, then the only way (now) to dump the incorrect data is with a StarSCAN or MOBILE...

[ojmcneill]

Hemissary,
So how does the starscan dump your data on the MTCM? I might be willing to get a dealer to do it just so I could do the re-install again. Does it take a lot of work?

[Hemissary]

Some background; the whole point of carefully following the rather specific adaptive procedures is to ensure the TCM knows the basic operating parameters for "that" particular transmission.

During the learn-process the TCM is actually measuring an array of raw values that will allow it to define the operating parameters at the limits. As you can see...this is very important if for some reason something internally goes wrong. The TCM can then curtail transmission operation, or go into safe-mode (limp-in) to prevent it from destroying itself.

As many have already found out the hard way, that large bold printed warning in the instructions (precisely the same written information is in the service manuals) is there for a very good reason.

Installing and ignoring the instructions reminds me of an advertisment years ago on TV, it might have been for a transmission company but likey it was simply about oil changes. Their slogan was "you can pay me now...or you can pay me later". The implication being if you ignore changing your oil, or in this case elect not to follow instructions, you get to pay dearly at a later date. If we consider most if not all of us are pushing our systems (transmissions) to the upper limits, it behooves one to "follow the instructions"...

To answer your question Owen; a StarSCAN (or MOBILE) when prompted by the user / technician will purge that raw data and set the TCM to relearn. At which point, it is then similar to a brand new TCM (of any type) and is ready to accept data it sees when within each of the temperature ranges. It's smart enough to close and store files within the first temperature range, and at the next setpoint commence the next round of data aquisition and storage during each of the temperature setpoints as the learn process continues.

The reason for the instruction to leave the vehicle running is that data is stored across the systems every 10min. However, if a StarSCAN is being employed during the process, you can command the TCM to store immediately. If you don't have a StarSCAN / MOBLIE, drive the car for the 10min as opposed to leave it sit idling.

In fact drive the snot out of it. This then stores more aggressive driving parameter values in another different section of the TCM. That section of course the one that can be reset via Predator, pulling fuse 11 or removing B+.

This brings up another tidbit, that being those who are installing a MPTCM and retaining the OEM PCM on 5.7's; the driver aspect of stored values, for example shift firmness, shift pressures, shift event durations, shift point (rpm) are all biased towards a softer more sedate driving style. This is to say that if you drive a 5.7 like your grandma the drivability quickly moves towards soft, long shifting events for comfort. The systems are biased to move in that direction, whereas the SRT not so much. If one elects to employ the optional aftermarket MPPCM, much less so. So on 5.7's without the MPPCM to retain(!) those super crisp, short duration, high-pressure shift events one must drive the vehicle aggressively pretty well all the time. Remember, drivability values are stored every 10min.

NOTE: simply taking a used TCM and putting it into another vehicle and not performing the above process (must use StarSCAN / MOBILE) the previously stored data is being used to define the operating parameters of your transmission...bad idea.

[Hemissary]

Note; I have added more information to the above after posting it...

[Rupert]

Hemisary is very knowledgabe and 100% correct. I installed a MPTCM in my 08 charger RT, mainly becuse of the third gear RPM drop issue, which it cured imeadiatly. . I prepared , researched and even practiced the coastdowns and upshifts. I made a checklist..etc. I revieweded the diablo posts about this. ..I didnt have a way to check the temps and I made the desicion to " wing it"/..This was 6 months after I had my NAG-1 rebuilt due to a TC failure. I had the rebuild done with all paramount performance parts Well, I SEEM to be lucky, I did the procedure similar to the orig pster, minus the trans temp monitoring. The car responded, and has ben runnign like a monster ever since, to the tune of 12.49 @ 109 mph. Sounds great, right? .....Well I have a little issue in 1st gear that MAY be related to the MPTCM. the TC likes to lock up In FIRST at slow speed light throttle. Hopefully i'll never know and I wont have an issue. The possibilty of premature failure becuse I didnt read and follow the intructions is on the back of my mind. I should and may have the process repeated with my freinds starscanner. I beat the car regularlly, it likes it, it responds quickly. when putt around,it adapts to that as well.
However have talked to a few folks who have rebuilt/ instaled a number of NAG-1s and whenI ask then if they perform this procedure after repalacing the tranny get a dumb stare. The chyrsler book ( cant qoute the title at the momment I have a pdf copyat work.) is specific about this the TCM adaptives must be done anytime a major component ie the transmission, the PCM etc is replaced. Also the instructions that come with the MPTCM do NOT tell you what to do if the parameters exceed the limits DURING the proceddure. Im refering mainly to the narrow window for the first part.
If i had to do it again I wouod have begged / borrowed the starscan and monitorred temps.