Intercoolers vs. direct-port meth injection

[Flmango1832]

Are intercoolers becoming a thing of the past? Are intercoolers worth the hastle of plumbing and the pressure drop that they create?

Also what the hell is direct port meth injection and how does it work?

p.s. just trying to be the devil's advocate..... so experts please chime in and enlighten us

[adamwahhab]

On the contrary intercoolers are a thing of the future, they are becoming smaller and more efficient then ever! I'm not a big fan of the meth injection myself. A correct sized intercooler can do the same job and it won't cost you a penny besides the initial cost of the intercooler.

[1SRT8-2NV]

I agree I definitely don't think that intercoolers are a thing of the past, and I think that the people that are using the meth kits are using them to help them to run more boost without detonation when the vehicle hits full throttle vs being able to cool the air 100% of the time with the intercooler.

[Redfox0099]

I am running both a methanol injection and my Procharger intercooler but them again it is at 17 psi.

For everyday S/Cer I would get a good intercooler and if you plan on some big boost then add a Meth kit to it.

Posted via LXFMobile

[adamwahhab]

I ran 36psi on my chevelle, intercooler only, never needed meth. A good intercooler will go a long long way

[formerice]

I can tell you that on a marine diesel running 40 lbs of boost, water meth 50/50 wakes em up big time. That's running a huge cold sea water intercooler, water temp around 45F. A 400 hp diesel will pick up close to 150 more hp. It allows you to go to huge injectors and advance the timing a lot if you want to also. We never had to because just the water meth gave us enough power to win and we watched others pound more fuel into their motors trying to catch us and blowing up their turbos and motors. I build Maine lobster boats, btw. I have also run water meth on a supercharged pickup for 150,000 with no failures and 15 lbs boost.

[Flmango1832]

So Intercoolers and meth FTW. You will see very low intake temps and be virtually detonation proof with right tuning. Also, has anyone heard of pouring a special nitro methane into the water/meth for more power. I think snow performance advertises something called nitro booster that is nitro methane with a special emulsifier so it distributes evenly in the the w/m mix. They claim 50hp gain anyone have any personal experience.

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

The issue on the HEMI engines is the high cylinder temps even in stock configuration. Modern engines run hotter as part of emissions control. While a good intercooler will knock down the intake air temp, your talking maybe 50 degrees or so. On my 5.7, it would run 1185 degrees on the EGT gauge at 78 mph in cruise with MDS engaged. This was my baseline hottest temp.

Under full boost, even on a hot day, end of the 1/4 mile, dyno run, whatever, it would never go over 1250 degrees with the meth injection. Water/meth absorbs a huge amount of combustion chamber heat. An intercooler alone can not do this. If I would turn off the water/meth injection, temps would jump 250 degrees on the EGT gauge.

I see few people monitoring their EGT's, and with FI, that data is just as critical as monitoring the AFR.

I also spray downstream of the IAT, so the computer sees the incoming air temp. not a colder temp. This helps in FI because the ECU will pull timing based on the IAT, and if you spray upstream of the IAT, the ECU would see a much colder temp and advance timing which you do not want on FI.

[Ghostface Mag]

Intercooler/Meth is the best thing for Force Induction...

[STREET LIFE R/T]

If you get the right size intercooler...meth is not needed. There are plenty of FI cars pushing 25 -42 psi with out meth...its all in the the piping size and Intercooler core size. Some people think you can get any intercooler and slap it on your car.....

[hemi nick]

In the name of science, I'm going with just meth to cool my charge....Only worry i had doing this is the constant filling up of w/meth..I'm pretty much spraying 100% at 1p.s.i . I also have 8 nozzles spraying so i really thought i would run out quick. So far it seems like less than a gallon per 2 fill ups...I.M.O. , that's good enough for me....Next science project, 25 -50 shot of the giggle gas(wet)....

[STREET LIFE R/T]

This helps also..

[Hemipowered12]

Im currently fabing a turbo kit...if she goes bad...i still have my ram lol...so lets not break anything. But I use meth in my laser...It definately helps me run about 10 more lbs and very safely.
Id say seriosuly i dont know many cars that run just spray....Run both but dont forget your internals first. Im running a 4' thick FMIC its not long but for my laser it was rated to 800hp so..I think she'll be good.


Adam..answer my pm about your setup.....

[FirstHurst]

Great post, great replies. I have the vortech setup with the "charge cooler" and as much as it might try to cool the flow, it loses efficiency quick. After the first big pull i lost between 30-40 HP. Incidentally the updated '09 5.7 hemi with a "cold" vortech makes 439 HP at the wheels with about 6.5 pounds, about a 100 horse gain.

So, at spring fest this year I saw a meth application (Might've been modern muscle?) for the V6 turbos using the washer fluid resevoir and the stock wiper fluid lever to spray it. I am thinking I'd like to go this route with my V8 vortech setup, although I would still be on stock internals and probably wouldn't mess with the boost quite yet. I'd really like to use this trick to be able to raise my rev limit past 5800, and I know it's a tightrope. I haven't used the wipers yet, and being that it isn't a daily I would just rain-x it and possibly save some weight if I pulled the wiper motor.

Has anyone used the stock washer fluid resevoir to meth cool the hemi? I'm also looking at additional feedback guages, some posts have mentions air/fuel, EGT, etc. Beyond the standard boost what are people monitoring for their applications? Is anyone using one of the data port systems for their info?

[Turbo Bill]

I'm a firm believer in water/alcohol injection technology. Liquid intercooling as I like to call it is finallly coming of age. It was pioneered in WWII and deserves a spot in the forced induction arena as a cost effective option. I'm also the head of a new company dedicated to forced induction lovers of all makes and models offering a soon to be released answer for low octane fuel and high boost issues. Our product is now in the testing stage with fantastic results with production to gear up hopefully the month of October. To date we have logged over 1500 miles on a turbocharged stock Suburu WRX running 18psi to 20psi boost on 87 to 89 octane garden variety fuel (read Safeway gas). The car has seen a lot of hard driving with no ill effects and actually seems to invite even higher boost levels. The stock ECu with a stage two tune and stock injectors actually upped the boost from 15 to 19psi over running straight 92 octane with our product disabled and appears no timing is being removed by the ECU at all. This motor does not have forged pistons or forged crank AFAIK Subaru does not include these items on it's WRX series motors. My Chevy also ran a cast crank and pistons with up to 18psi with no ill effects. In fact after three years of hard driving at 12 to 18psi, the crank looks like brand new and I still have it in my garage. A testiment to the technology/theories involved. Oh and no intercoolers on the Chevy either. One thing our testing has shown regarding intercoolers is that they are not as effective at lower speeds accelerating thru the lower gears. We are also in preproduction/testing development on a kit upgrade that will actually eliminate the intercooler and reduce the turbo lag associated with the stock intercooler.

Our system uses no plastic items. Remember your storing a flammable fuel in a hot engine compartment in a plastic bottle run thru plastic lines. I've read of a couple cars burning to the ground. Also untreated methanol has no visible flame to warn you that you are indeed on fire and windshield washer fluid does contain other ingrediants beside alcohol and water that I would not want to run thru my motor. Also you should only run alcohol that has been treated with an additive to prevent the solution from washing the oil off your cylinder walls. We will soon be offering custom built systems for the Mopar crowd so stay tuned.