SRT8 Chargers: Vortech Blower vs. N/A

[MotherMopar]

I posted this on the SRT/C, and there have been responses which I will add at the bottom (factual ones only), and those will be numbered so that someone from SRT/C doesn't have to come back here to LXF and rewrite the same thing.

ORIGINAL POST by Momo (me):

If there's one thing you all can rely upon me for is honesty and integrity when it comes to me telling you all what I think. I don't know a heck of alot about the mechanics of our vehicles, but I can and do analyze performance fairly well from a layman's standpoint.

Rick and I met up at a local construction road that's about 3/4 of a mile long. There is nearly zero traffic on this road and both sides are bordered by a 30-50 foot berm of dirt... aka: its like a road bunker with no pedestrians and no driveways and/or connecting streets what-so-ever.

In order to gain an honest and true assessment of the Vortech blower, we took driver's skill at launching out of the equation and went from a SLOW roll and 1500 rpms in 1st gear. The weather was about 74 degrees, sunny, low humidity.

Rick calculated the distance to be nearly a 1/3 of a mile down this one stretch, but when he's reached 110 mph, the distance covered equates to 1/4 mile.

Rick's power mods: CAI, Zoomers, Magnaflow hiflow cats, Predator and B&G tune.

My power mods: Zoomers, Magnaflow hiflow cats and Vortech blower.

*Prior to my blower install, Rick's car was a little bit faster than mine.

So, we took two runs using the above formula. On both runs, I pulled ONE car length on Rick.

We took an additional run from about 30 mph, dumped down into gear and nailed it. Rick got the jump on me this time, and I did NOT re-gain ANY ground on Rick. We finished with him ahead by about 3/4 of a car.

So...

My car dynoed at 435 rwhp on a mustang dyno @ Vortech. Which roughly equates to the advertised 540 hp given a dynojet and negation of drivetrain loss. Ryan and Drew dynoed at 400 rwhp at Vortech...

Ryan beat Rick by the same distance on the same road (1 car length).

Of note: Once I got my car length on Rick, that position held and neither of us gained.

My honest assessment is that I gained 115 rwhp from the blower install, over stock (went from 323 to 437 on a mustang dyno)... but in real world testing, that 115 rwhp accounted for only 1 car length in an approximate 1/4 mile race.

Whether this is or is not an expected outcome, I have no idea.

I am impressed with my blower, as it did make me faster; but with an additional 35 rwhp (mustang dynoed) over Ryan/Drew, I would have expected slightly better results and not 'just' to equal their performances vs. Rick.

EDIT: Be reminded that I am a research vehicle for Vortech. I was informed that my tune was the tune to be used in the production units. I got a INSANE deal on this blower and install, so I am NOT complaining. This is an FYI for all of you out there so that you know what you're getting... a great product... but don't think you're gonna be BLOWING people's doors off JUST because you have a blower. Mind you, the canned Vortech tune is about as safe as safe gets, and a solid custom tune will really light the fire under this beast.

RESPONSE #1:

Really good writeup Jason. I'll also add as far as mods go Jason and I are both running the same tires and he does has a Vortech tuned Predator. Jason, Ryan, Drew, and John have spoken about the one (1) car length dilemma associated with the "out of the box" Vortech. IMO, for what the R&D crowd paid for the blowers they still got a pretty good deal. If "I" were to pay retail ($6000 + tax, and install), I would be less than happy with the results. As a matter of fact I'd be really pissed.

RESPONSE #2:

On the tune from Vortech, it IS conservative, VERY conservative. I believe someone had mentioned that the A/F was sitting in the upper 10's rather than the lower 11's. With time and KR to match, there is pleanty of power to be had.

RESPONSE #3:

When Ryan and I dyno'd after the Vortech, the AF was WELL below 10. It wouldn't even register on the chart because it started at 10. The guys at the Dyno Shop (actual name of the shop) said there was a LOT to be gained in the tune as everyone has said, but I agree, not very impressed with only being able to pull one to two car lengths. My car with the hi-flow cats, Zoomers and AFE pulled 402 on the dyno that I pulled 450 with after the Vortech. Botom line, 50 hp give or take is very low for a SC, even with the low boost we are running. They did say the SC's were very well designed and could easily push 700 to 800 hp if our engines could handle it with some forged items, especially rods and pistons, easily with pully changes, cams, tunes, etc. I have GOT to get a Friday off so I can get to the track and see exactly what the time and top speed differences will be now.

RESPONSE #4:

I would take it to Vortech and have them look at the tune again. Our pro-charged srt8 charger ran a 12.1@113mph bone stock with not even a catback exhaust. Against a stock charger, that would have been about 4-6 car lengths. We also had a very conservative tune in the car and dynoed 460rwhp/480rwtq. If your lean or have too much timing, you could be detonating and the pcm could be pulling allot of timing back out. You should go back to vortech or install a wideband.

RESPONSE #5:

RE: Rick's car and mine:

Actually, my gas tank was at 1/4 tank... so that's not much weight... plus, Rick weighs about 30 lbs +/- than I. We both drove the same relative distance to the road... BUT... Rick had done a few pulls before I got there. So, technically, my car was lighter and cooler than his.

I'd have expected me to pull anytime I hit above 2800 rpms (when the boost kicks in). But, not really.

RESPONSE #6:

We're R&D vehicles for Vortech, and our tunes are basically set in steel. The tune is as such because they are going for CARB legal (California emissions).

I'm impressed with Vortech overall, the staff especially. They're very helpful, friendly folks. Their product line in general is legendary.

HOWEVER... like a few have said... IF I was to have paid $6000+ for this blower and tune... I'd be a little upset.

RESPONSE #7:

Remember Bud has a predator with a b&g tune, cats, exhaust and an intake. Plus the shifting on the vortech tune isnt very good at all. There is at least 2 tenths in just the shifting to be had I would bet. I can say that my shift second to third is so slow I can count it off...Lance has these tunes so safe because of the fact they have to warranty them. There is at least 30-50 to gain low end alone from a tune. The graphs of these cars with the vortech tune show that ricks car was making more sooner then was passed by the boost.

Please dont judge at this point the numbers from the dynos they are not really representative of what is left in the kits. Sure they make good numbers which in comparison are better numbers then heads/cam cars but due to the fact of how the power is applied they arent responding as well. With some tuning of the cars to adjust the low end and shifting I bet you see more numbers in the 525-550 range on a non mustang dyno and that those graphs look much better. They just arent making the low end that they can due to safety.

SO... Now that you've read all that, your thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc. are welcomed. This is the first (that I know of) head to head comparison of a NA lightly modded SRT8 and a Vortech supercharged SRT8 that has been written (although not technical as in actual ETs, etc.).

[ewrecker2003]

very nice write up. IT does seem that since these engines only can go to a certain point with out internals it isnt as worth it on a srt8. But if you put this blower on a R/T (5.7) and bring it up to the power level of an srt8 you still be ok for the engine. You also be quicker due to getting more power being gain from the blower and able to have more low end. This would make it a cost effective mod for an R/T. I would love to see a SRT8 and a vortech blown R/T head to head..... Again nice write up not what you where looking for in the comments I am guessing but that is what I get from this write up of yours

[MotherMopar]

very nice write up. IT does seem that since these engines only can go to a certain point with out internals it isnt as worth it on a srt8. But if you put this blower on a R/T (5.7) and bring it up to the power level of an srt8 you still be ok for the engine. You also be quicker due to getting more power being gain from the blower and able to have more low end. This would make it a cost effective mod for an R/T. I would love to see a SRT8 and a vortech blown R/T head to head..... Again nice write up not what you where looking for in the comments I am guessing but that is what I get from this write up of yours

All comments are welcomed!

THE point of the story is that the canned tune for the packages is "TOO" safe... as in RIDICULOUSLY safe... the power band is more narrow and it was tuned for peak hp. Shift points and shift firmness are literally worse than stock. Reliable sources (tuners and other gearheads) state that with a solid tune, this setup will turn an SRT8 into a friggin' nightmare on wheels. Ballpark of 525+ rwhp on a dynojet, with a nice power band, predator shifting, etc.

So... when one purchases this package, they will get one of the best blower setups out there from possibly the best manufacturer in the business... BUT... if they want to utilize the most from what they've got, they'll need an outside tune (which will screw the warranty, btw). But #2, the power and feel through tuning is indeed there.

[daveleck]

If I get mine installed on my 5.7 (thee weeks from now) and find this to be the case, I am going to be irate. I do not have local access to a CMR tuner and I don't have the leisure time to take a road trip to have it done. If the canned tune is really so awful, I hope somebody comes up with an email tune that is a significant improvement (without jeopardizing the motor).

I was fully expecting to leave some power on the table in the interest of running a safe tune. However, if the canned Vortech/Diablo tune does not shift as well as the normally aspirated canned Diablo tune, I will be very very unhappy that I dropped $5k on the Vortech.

[BAMF]

I'll be working with the Inertia tuner via email to get a CMR tune since I am nowhere near a CMR capable shop. We're going to start off as safe/conservative as possible with the tune, and over time (with A/F compared to RPMs logged) will work up to a strong but still safe tune. My email tune won't work too well for mostly stock 5.7s because I have Inertia heads/cam installed as well, but the knowledge learned from the tuning process should still be helpful. I'll start my own Vortech thread whenever the kit finally shows up.

[nightrunner]

I have a daytona with the vortech blower and we took it to the track last night which was really hot being its airzona. With a 6400Da you cant expect much. Yes vortech played it really really safe with the tune. At WOT the A/F is really rich. I got some good data logs and will be having some one take a look at them soon, more then likely Steve. But its a total different car with the blower. We have M&H DRs and i could not get it to hook up at all. Out of the hole just stepping on it with 17psi in the DRs it would light them up for 60feet and the going in to 2nd it would lose traction again. With all them problems it still ran 100.9 mph not geting on it till 3rd gear. So what i came up with this thing needs a custom tune bad and a really good set of DRs. If anyone wants to know anything else feel free to ask or pm me.

[MoparPosterChild]

I am also an R&D vehicle for Vortech. I have to say, I LOVE my car with this supercharger on it. I have very similar mods to your car, only difference is my Mopar exhaust. I also had mods similar to Rick's car prior to the install of my supercharger.

Since the Vortech unit has been installed on my car, it's a whole new animal. It pulls like crazy. I can't even try and use the auto stick to shift in the first 2-3 gears because it hits redline so quickly, and my car still has the original transmission flash that allows it to bounce off the rev-limiter until it's manually shifted.

I feel as though the shifts are firm enough for me. I know they didn't manipulate the torque management at all really because in my car, it shifts pretty hard, and they were taking their 3yr, 36,000 mile warranty into consideration.

I know they tuned the car conservatively at around 4.6 lbs of boost, again probably to increase dependability and longevity for the drive train. Still, with only 4.6 lbs, 115hp gain is serious power.

For me, the unit is exactly what I need, and if you're the kind of person who'll need more, all you have to do is get a custom tune. Anything more than what my car is now would be pushing the envelope between "practical high horsepower/ daily driver" and "not so practical high horsepower fun drag car" I have to try hard NOT to spin my tires from a stand still as is.

[MotherMopar]

If I get mine installed on my 5.7 (thee weeks from now) and find this to be the case, I am going to be irate. I do not have local access to a CMR tuner and I don't have the leisure time to take a road trip to have it done. If the canned tune is really so awful, I hope somebody comes up with an email tune that is a significant improvement (without jeopardizing the motor).

I was fully expecting to leave some power on the table in the interest of running a safe tune. However, if the canned Vortech/Diablo tune does not shift as well as the normally aspirated canned Diablo tune, I will be very very unhappy that I dropped $5k on the Vortech.

Lets not forget folks, I have the SRT8 setup.

Second, the shifts in my car (as well as at least 3 other R&D vehicles) are SLOW and sloshy. Not crisp as it was with the Predator tuner.

With the tuner alone, before the blower, I would leave patches into 2nd and chirp 3rd on occassion. Not so anymore. This isn't because of HP, but the shifting/TQ management capabilities are lost w/the canned Vortech tune.

I am also an R&D vehicle for Vortech. I have to say, I LOVE my car with this supercharger on it. I have very similar mods to your car, only difference is my Mopar exhaust. I also had mods similar to Rick's car prior to the install of my supercharger.

Since the Vortech unit has been installed on my car, it's a whole new animal. It pulls like crazy. I can't even try and use the auto stick to shift in the first 2-3 gears because it hits redline so quickly, and my car still has the original transmission flash that allows it to bounce off the rev-limiter until it's manually shifted.

I feel as though the shifts are firm enough for me. I know they didn't manipulate the torque management at all really because in my car, it shifts pretty hard, and they were taking their 3yr, 36,000 mile warranty into consideration.

I know they tuned the car conservatively at around 4.6 lbs of boost, again probably to increase dependability and longevity for the drive train. Still, with only 4.6 lbs, 115hp gain is serious power.

For me, the unit is exactly what I need, and if you're the kind of person who'll need more, all you have to do is get a custom tune. Anything more than what my car is now would be pushing the envelope between "practical high horsepower/ daily driver" and "not so practical high horsepower fun drag car" I have to try hard NOT to spin my tires from a stand still as is.

Do you have the 6.1? If so, God bless and your tune has to be different than the other R&D vehicles, because NONE of us has the same throttle response nor shift firmness.

Don't get me wrong, I got a GREAT deal for this setup, and am happy with it... but like others have said, for $6000+++, I'd be a wee bit mad.

I was told not to look at dyno numbers, but rather on the road performance... so I did... and the test Rick and I did knocked me down a few notches. The SOP feel is NICE! But the real world application, car vs. car, isn't nearly as nice.

HOWEVER, with all that said, Vortech is a top notch company and their staff is AWESOME. If you are getting this kit, don't sweat it! Just retune. Then you'll have a beast.

[Ghostface Mag]

>Subscribed<

[MoparPosterChild]

Lets not forget folks, I have the SRT8 setup.

Second, the shifts in my car (as well as at least 3 other R&D vehicles) are SLOW and sloshy. Not crisp as it was with the Predator tuner.

With the tuner alone, before the blower, I would leave patches into 2nd and chirp 3rd on occassion. Not so anymore. This isn't because of HP, but the shifting/TQ management capabilities are lost w/the canned Vortech tune.



Do you have the 6.1? If so, God bless and your tune has to be different than the other R&D vehicles, because NONE of us has the same throttle response nor shift firmness.

Don't get me wrong, I got a GREAT deal for this setup, and am happy with it... but like others have said, for $6000+++, I'd be a wee bit mad.

I was told not to look at dyno numbers, but rather on the road performance... so I did... and the test Rick and I did knocked me down a few notches. The SOP feel is NICE! But the real world application, car vs. car, isn't nearly as nice.

HOWEVER, with all that said, Vortech is a top notch company and their staff is AWESOME. If you are getting this kit, don't sweat it! Just retune. Then you'll have a beast.

Yes, I have the 6.1 set up. I had the Diablo dyno tuned and installed on my car before I got the Vortech unit. I noticed improved shifts with the Diablo, but I wouldn't say they were "crisp"... more like the car "pushed" its way through the shift, meaning there was constant power and forward motion, no hesitation like with the stock tune. In my opinion, the "crisp" feeling I got from Diablo on my SRT was more the improved throttle response.

With the Vortech supercharger and tune, the shifting seems very much the same in my car, except it may be even better because there is a "firmness" to the shifts now that I really didn't notice before. I would attribute that to the extra torque being transfered through the drive train. Oh, and I can break the tires loose between the 2-3 shift every time.

I would like to note that I also have a 2007 Charger R/T with a canned Diablo tune and improved shift firmness. When comparing the difference between the effect the Predator has on the SRT vs. the R/T, the R/T shifts WAY better than stock where the SRT would be more like a mild improvement. As I understand it, you can't even adjust the shift firmness on the SRT's, only on the R/T's. All they did for the SRT's is reduce the torque management a bit. The most obvious improvement with a Diablo canned tune on an SRT, in my opinion would be the throttle response.

Good luck to you and everyone else who has one of these units or is considering buying one. I have found Vortech to be a top notch company with top notch service.

If anyone wants more power out of their kit, it's there... gobs of it, you just have to tap into it.... You probably won't qualify for the warranty, and you would probably be increasing your chances of mechanical failure but that's what happens when you step outside the box.

[MoparPosterChild]

Hey MotherMopar, are you in SoCal? Los Angeles? Maybe we could get together some time and compare rides...

[MOL SRT-8]

Hey MotherMopar, are you in SoCal? Los Angeles? Maybe we could get together some time and compare rides...

HE LIVES IN SAN DIEGO. HE IS SUPPOSE TO BE AT THE M3 SHOW IN POMONA ON AUG 9th. I KNOW THERE WILL BE A FEW VORTECH CARS THERE. HOPEFULLY I WILL HAVE MINE BACK BY THEN, THATS THE PLAN ANYWAY.

[Bud]

I am surprised this thread has not received more attention. I would think MORE people would want to know that if they buy a Vortech SC for $6000 + tax, and install, would want to know that unless they decide to forgo the warranty and get a CMR tune that they will more than likely only be about one (1) car length faster than they were before. The ONLY difference Jason and I have is that he replaced his CAI with a blower. We both have the same exhaust, hi flow cats, 180 degree t-stats, and Predator tunes. I have a B&G tune, Jason has a Vortech "out of the box" blower tune. Peak HP does NOT mean squat if you are losing HP throughout the rest of the RPM's. That being said....there is plenty of room to dial these things in...."I suspect". It will just come at the cost of the warranty...and the price of the tune.

[MOL SRT-8]

there is a huge difference between your tune and what i think most people are running. it's all in the tune.

[Bud]

I am surprised this thread has not received more attention. I would think MORE people would want to know that if they buy a Vortech SC for $6000 + tax, and install, would want to know that unless they decide to forgo the warranty and get a CMR tune that they will more than likely only be about one (1) car length faster than they were before. The ONLY difference Jason and I have is that he replaced his CAI with a blower. We both have the same exhaust, hi flow cats, 180 degree t-stats, and Predator tunes. I have a B&G tune, Jason has a Vortech "out of the box" blower tune. Peak HP does NOT mean squat if you are losing HP throughout the rest of the RPM's. That being said....there is plenty of room to dial these things in...."I suspect". It will just come at the cost of the warranty...and the price of the tune.

there is a huge difference between your tune and what i think most people are running. it's all in the tune.

Just informing folks! With all the debate over CAI's and tires, it's the least those who know can do for those spending 6k plus.