CMR and iEMS3 tuning combined, a new direction

[srt007]

also is iems the only integrated ems?the reason for asking is because ive seen ppl running other ems standalone systems as piggybacks with the oem ecu like the iems does. ive seen them do it with an aem ems and ive also seen it done with an engine management unit made by a company called EMS. supposedly they just wire up the things they really need and leave the rest untouched. i havent seen done on our lx's but what would make our application so different?

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

how much of a difference in egt temps are u getting spraying the mixture your running when compared to not running it or you wouldnt be able to have an answer for that since you havent made a wot run with out it?

I had one system installed where the owner did not want to spring for the cost of the water/meth, and the temp difference under full boost was about 250 degrees running between 1550 and 1600 far to hot and near the temps where the piston metal starts to lose it's properties and begins to weaken.

After that it was included in the base kit structure and not an option.

[srt007]

I had one system installed where the owner did not want to spring for the cost of the water/meth, and the temp difference under full boost was about 250 degrees running between 1550 and 1600 far to hot and near the temps where the piston metal starts to lose it's properties and begins to weaken.

After that it was included in the base kit structure and not an option.

does that apply only to oem pistons or forged aswell?

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

also is iems the only integrated ems?the reason for asking is because ive seen ppl running other ems standalone systems as piggybacks with the oem ecu like the iems does. ive seen them do it with an aem ems and ive also seen it done with an engine management unit made by a company called EMS. supposedly they just wire up the things they really need and leave the rest untouched. i havent seen done on our lx's but what would make our application so different?

It depends on what year vehicle this was being performed on, I seriously doubt that it was on an OBD11 vehicle running a CANbus as the 05 up LX and 06 up other Hemi vehicles use.

A stand alone has to have a myriad of sensor inputs to calculate the injector fuel pulse and you can not cut those inputs loose from the factory ECU, nor can it simply be replaced as the CANbus would no longer function.

In addition, the ECU must still see cause and effect of the O2 sensor operation in closed loop, so that can not be cut loose either.

A vast majority of the operation of an FI vehicle is in the vacuum range of operation, and the factory ECU is fully capable of making all the myriad of calculations needed for normal operation. The iEMS3 does not disturb that function, and allows the factory ECU to continue to make all the fuel and timing calculations as it is designed to do.

What the iEMS3 can do that a Stand Alone can not, is to utilize the ECU's calculated injector fuel pulse as it's input and scale that pulse to the correct length to fire the larger injectors through it's own internal injector drivers with the new output being sent to the injectors.

The factory ECU no longer operates the injectors, it simply fires a dummy load board so it sees the spike on the injector circuits it does not measure the length of the pulse it only looks for the circuit spike.

The iEMS3 is based on a Stand Alone that has been heavily modified both from an electronics and software standpoint to read the ECU inputs and outputs in real time to make the proper calculations for the larger injectors based on the original fuel pulse as calculated by the ECU plus the desired additional milliseconds of fuel pulse added by the iEMS3 based on actual load (boost pressure).

The iEMS3 is actually more complicated than it's stand alone brother as it has to have more memory, processor speed, and in/out circuits.

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

does that apply only to oem pistons or forged aswell?

I have seen forged pistons fail as well, no piston can withstand uncontrolled heat and resulting detonation.

The stock pistons I have seen fail were not from detonation, but rather that too much heat causes the upper ring to expand until it closes the ring gap. At that point as it continues to expand from the heat, it has no where to go other than to exert pressure up and down on the ring lands, and since the top ring land is thinner, it pops off a chunk and ......... Well its not pretty.

I have also seen ring land on forged pistons being popped off from too much heat and improper engine build where the gap was not sized properly for the expected conditions in the combustion chamber.

[srt007]

I have seen forged pistons fail as well, no piston can withstand uncontrolled heat and resulting detonation.

The stock pistons I have seen fail were not from detonation, but rather that too much heat causes the upper ring to expand until it closes the ring gap. At that point as it continues to expand from the heat, it has no where to go other than to exert pressure up and down on the ring lands, and since the top ring land is thinner, it pops off a chunk and ......... Well its not pretty.

I have also seen ring land on forged pistons being popped off from too much heat and improper engine build where the gap was not sized properly for the expected conditions in the combustion chamber.

i have seen many cars turbos with high boost and whp and no have any issues without the assistance of meth inj. for example my import is running a turbo with alot of boost and whp and no issues whatso ever. is there a reason for that?

[srt007]

It depends on what year vehicle this was being performed on, I seriously doubt that it was on an OBD11 vehicle running a CANbus as the 05 up LX and 06 up other Hemi vehicles use.

A stand alone has to have a myriad of sensor inputs to calculate the injector fuel pulse and you can not cut those inputs loose from the factory ECU, nor can it simply be replaced as the CANbus would no longer function.

In addition, the ECU must still see cause and effect of the O2 sensor operation in closed loop, so that can not be cut loose either.

A vast majority of the operation of an FI vehicle is in the vacuum range of operation, and the factory ECU is fully capable of making all the myriad of calculations needed for normal operation. The iEMS3 does not disturb that function, and allows the factory ECU to continue to make all the fuel and timing calculations as it is designed to do.

What the iEMS3 can do that a Stand Alone can not, is to utilize the ECU's calculated injector fuel pulse as it's input and scale that pulse to the correct length to fire the larger injectors through it's own internal injector drivers with the new output being sent to the injectors.

The factory ECU no longer operates the injectors, it simply fires a dummy load board so it sees the spike on the injector circuits it does not measure the length of the pulse it only looks for the circuit spike.

The iEMS3 is based on a Stand Alone that has been heavily modified both from an electronics and software standpoint to read the ECU inputs and outputs in real time to make the proper calculations for the larger injectors based on the original fuel pulse as calculated by the ECU plus the desired additional milliseconds of fuel pulse added by the iEMS3 based on actual load (boost pressure).

The iEMS3 is actually more complicated than it's stand alone brother as it has to have more memory, processor speed, and in/out circuits.

how is the aem f/ic 8 (newer model) different from iems?

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

i have seen many cars turbos with high boost and whp and no have any issues without the assistance of meth inj. for example my import is running a turbo with alot of boost and whp and no issues whatso ever. is there a reason for that?

It all depends on the engine and primarily the piston design as too how much it can stand.

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

how is the aem f/ic 8 (newer model) different from iems?

It is similar in approach, however, I have reviewed it's functions and inputs/outputs extensively, and the functions are not configured in the manner that the systems on the Hemi function.

The manufacturer from Sweden for the iEMS3 actually spent three days here in my shop reconfiguring their software and electronics to work with the Hemi ECU systems.

[srt007]

It is similar in approach, however, I have reviewed it's functions and inputs/outputs extensively, and the functions are not configured in the manner that the systems on the Hemi function.

The manufacturer from Sweden for the iEMS3 actually spent three days here in my shop reconfiguring their software and electronics to work with the Hemi ECU systems.

if u have the time can u explain the what u mean by the functions are not confirgured in the same manner. what changes were made to the iems that made it more hemi friendly?
im really interested in a piggyback so im trying to get as much info about the only two piggybacks being offered for our hemi's at the moment

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

if u have the time can u explain the what u mean by the functions are not confirgured in the same manner. what changes were made to the iems that made it more hemi friendly?
im really interested in a piggyback so im trying to get as much info about the only two piggybacks being offered for our hemi's at the moment

Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to disclose the manufacturers technical information due to disclosure agreements, I hope you can understand. We have over three years of run time on the system on our own vehicles, so we learned first hand what worked and what didn't and made the modifications where appropriate to accommodate.

[srt007]

so they both basically have the same tools just one is a little more user friendly with the hemi's?

[srt007]

can u pm a price on an iems setup including whatever options the system is going to need?

[Darell]

Tim, is there any way to utilize the un-used inputs on my iEMS3 for additional data logging? I know for sure the old 'Cam signal in/out' digitals are available as I believe analogs ones are too. I would love to be able to log my intercooler water temp or turbo discharge temp and use the digital input to monitor the road speed.

[srt007]

still waiting on a pm with a quote for iems