00$$ mods!! :o

[magnum4sissies]

What can be done to achieve better perform or sound without dropping a time.. but maybe dropping some sweat, blood and tears? :]

Anything I can do to the exhaust?
Engine?
Electric?

I've been reading about people do little things to their exhaust to spruce it up some, but I don't exactly understand the entire exhaust/muffler/cat system to make sense of it.

Thanks.

[robbie]

Air silencer delete.....

[Super T]

Literally free? Like robbie said, remove the silencer under the stock airbox. Otherwise, start the piggy bank :-) You can get away fairly cheap on exhaust if you don't mind drone. The cheaper intakes don't do squat for performance... the Mopar, AFE II and AirHammer are pretty nice (in order from good to best).

[Samoan Tsunami]

What can be done to achieve better perform or sound without dropping a time.. but maybe dropping some sweat, blood and tears? :]

Anything I can do to the exhaust?
Engine?
Electric?

I've been reading about people do little things to their exhaust to spruce it up some, but I don't exactly understand the entire exhaust/muffler/cat system to make sense of it.

Thanks.

remove weight. if you dont need it, its making you slow. easiest form of weight reduction

The cheaper intakes don't do squat for performance

definately disagree.

also most any intake, will help performance. for starters it smooths out the air flow with the pipe, and most filters allow more air flow, hence thats a gain.

regardless of popular forum belief, price doesnt always dictate peformance. especially in the realm of intakes.

worst comes to worst, ask them for solid proof of their statements, or even some simple logic

[Super T]

worst comes to worst, ask them for solid proof of their statements, or even some simple logic

You missed the GIFO and MOFO threads, didn't ya Numerous intakes were dyno tested... same car, same day, back to back, with identical engine temperatures. Basically the most controlled environment you could possibly get. The results? Most intakes provided no or even NEGATIVE power changes. AFE Stage II and AirHammer are the only two proven to increase power. So where's the logic in that? Simple... the stock airbox isn't THAT bad. Plus it's more of a "cold air" than any of the aftermarkets that put the filter in the engine bay. The AFE and Hammer are the only two that combine a smoother/bigger tube with a less restrictive filter to net better flow into the engine. Doesn't get any more proven than that.
Hit up ye olde search feature for GIFO and MOFO.

[stitchmonkey]

You missed the GIFO and MOFO threads, didn't ya Numerous intakes were dyno tested... same car, same day, back to back, with identical engine temperatures. Basically the most controlled environment you could possibly get. The results? Most intakes provided no or even NEGATIVE power changes. AFE Stage II and AirHammer are the only two proven to increase power. So where's the logic in that? Simple... the stock airbox isn't THAT bad. Plus it's more of a "cold air" than any of the aftermarkets that put the filter in the engine bay. The AFE and Hammer are the only two that combine a smoother/bigger tube with a less restrictive filter to net better flow into the engine. Doesn't get any more proven than that.
Hit up ye olde search feature for GIFO and MOFO.

I was gonna say this, Real good info , it'll cost around $100.00 bucks but you can take off the resonators for sound

[Samoan Tsunami]

You missed the GIFO and MOFO threads, didn't ya Numerous intakes were dyno tested... same car, same day, back to back, with identical engine temperatures. Basically the most controlled environment you could possibly get. The results? Most intakes provided no or even NEGATIVE power changes. AFE Stage II and AirHammer are the only two proven to increase power. So where's the logic in that? Simple... the stock airbox isn't THAT bad. Plus it's more of a "cold air" than any of the aftermarkets that put the filter in the engine bay. The AFE and Hammer are the only two that combine a smoother/bigger tube with a less restrictive filter to net better flow into the engine. Doesn't get any more proven than that.
Hit up ye olde search feature for GIFO and MOFO.

the majority of those posts do not even show sheets anymore.

one stated that there were no intake gains unless there is an ECU upgrade like the jetchip MODULE, which basically is nothing more than an overpriced intake resistor which can be bought on ebay for under 5$. it doesnt improve shift points, it simply tricks the ecu into believing the temp is colder so it adds more gas and slightly advances timing as a result of the temp. this was directly from jetchip themselves.

and the guy who was doing the testing stopped back in april of 2006, which was the last post until 8-09-2007 of which nothing had been posted for over a year. FactoryD i think his name was??? FactoryD 3.5L Dyno shootout (crazy results)

thing is, back then there were really only Warm Air Intakes, currently there are a few companies making LEGIT COOL AIR INTAKES....ya know, intakes that mount the filter outside of the engine bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-06...spagenameZWDVW

personally i prefer Warm Air Intakes, or Short Ram setups, as they are easier to access the filter, the sound is a bit louder, and way more common. oddly enough everyone refers to these as CAI;s overhere, but the filter is located within the same air as the engine which is a heated source.


larger tubes do well, however no matter how large a filter, or tube, the throttle plate dictates how much air an engine will recieve, which is the reason pretty much every performance company that deals with intake setups, usually has a throttle body for sale. its no different than a front door of a house, only so much air can be forced through any opening. you can make the sound sound more agressive via resonance. it may sound meaner, but you can have a 30 inch wide filter with matching pipe. the air that enters the engine is only gonna flow as much air as the opening to the intake manifold allows... aka the throttle body.

the only way to lose power over stock is to actually have a dirty filter, or hinder flow, which would mean using a pipe diameter that smaller than the stock rubber tube.


also i doubt none of the newer intakes have been tested, especially the TRUE CAI's which mount similarly to the stock setups, where the opening for air to enter is outside of the engine bay and located in the front bumper in the wheel well area.

its almost 2008. 2006 is a long while ago, brah


also to point out, a LARGE majority of the posts i am reading, especially the CAI stuff, are mostly tests on the V8.
V8's are a totally different beast... for starters, the computer has far more advances and limitations, such as the MDS. the SRT seems to be the only all out race setup. the V6's are relatively underpowered and have room to improve. i appreciate input from all, but the V8 guys have to realize that the results from the V8 will not necessarily apply to the V6. thats why i post in the V6 forum, to try and find results from V6 tests. OHV vs SOHC, different displacements, etc. granted its all one giant air pump, even our V6 manifolds are "dual staged/dual tuned", which offers yet another difference in results during testing.

most people are under the impression that you need to change to a 180 degree thermostat, when thats whats stock in i believe most the LX's at least the 3.5's...

and that one post with statements such as this:

Power gains are significant if you'll then run 91 octane fuel, as the Jet Chip will see your octane level and advance timing (resulting in more power) accordingly

the jet chip doesnt recognize the octane of the fuel. theres no sensor/monitor the meausures the octane. the jet chip has resistors inside of it. those resistors as said are the same ones one ebay as i pointed out above. they translate the accurate.....well here, i did a post on this already, brah... a bit easier to explain it: V6 Jet Chip experience?



seriously, i appreciate the keywords for the link searches. just nothing really came up that was recent, or had the dynos. the links were busted and most of the tests were from 05 - early 06. theres been computer changes, and people says, nothing happens with intakes except for these 2 or 3, but with guys getting faster on the track with different intakes, custom exhausts, etc and still no programmer, or many with no modules installed...

my logic tells me times are a changin hope ya understand where i am comin from here. dont mean any disrespect, but not many of the claims on majority of the forums are validated by any proof. especially when new products come out. people have a tendency to stick with what they know or are comfy with.

it just seems not many at all here test things. and since butt dynos are not accurate....

[magnum4sissies]

Well, I'm assuming the air box silencer is the box around my air intake?

Do I just remove it? Is it supported without?

Also, what all goes into the resonator removal?

[NC-SXT]

Well, I'm assuming the air box silencer is the box around my air intake?

Do I just remove it? Is it supported without?

Also, what all goes into the resonator removal?

Silencer is under the air box, some have it some dont.

The resonator is the thing attached to your exhaust tip, it looks like a muffler but its not.

[magnum4sissies]

I searched the air silencer on Google without much luck.
I'll search on here and see if I can find some pics.

What all goes into removing the resonator?

[Paradog]

a 10mm bolt and a long reach

[Super T]

the majority of those posts do not even show sheets anymore.

one stated that there were no intake gains unless there is an ECU upgrade like the jetchip MODULE, which basically is nothing more than an overpriced intake resistor which can be bought on ebay for under 5$. it doesnt improve shift points, it simply tricks the ecu into believing the temp is colder so it adds more gas and slightly advances timing as a result of the temp. this was directly from jetchip themselves.

While I think the JET chip is a POS, it is more complicated than just a $0.40 Radio Shack resistor... still not a good solution, but better than nothing. That was speculation at the time because there was no tuning available... we were hopeful that even the more poorly performing intakes wouldn't be so bad if the car were tuned to them. We subsequently learned that the car has adaptives to compensate for minor mods and therefore it is a moot point.

and the guy who was doing the testing stopped back in april of 2006, which was the last post until 8-09-2007 of which nothing had been posted for over a year. FactoryD i think his name was??? FactoryD 3.5L Dyno shootout (crazy results)

There were several people involved in the testing... but there haven't been any real advancements in intakes since then. Why beat a dead horse?

thing is, back then there were really only Warm Air Intakes, currently there are a few companies making LEGIT COOL AIR INTAKES....ya know, intakes that mount the filter outside of the engine bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-06...spagenameZWDVW

personally i prefer Warm Air Intakes, or Short Ram setups, as they are easier to access the filter, the sound is a bit louder, and way more common. oddly enough everyone refers to these as CAI;s overhere, but the filter is located within the same air as the engine which is a heated source.


larger tubes do well, however no matter how large a filter, or tube, the throttle plate dictates how much air an engine will recieve, which is the reason pretty much every performance company that deals with intake setups, usually has a throttle body for sale. its no different than a front door of a house, only so much air can be forced through any opening. you can make the sound sound more agressive via resonance. it may sound meaner, but you can have a 30 inch wide filter with matching pipe. the air that enters the engine is only gonna flow as much air as the opening to the intake manifold allows... aka the throttle body.

the only way to lose power over stock is to actually have a dirty filter, or hinder flow, which would mean using a pipe diameter that smaller than the stock rubber tube.


also i doubt none of the newer intakes have been tested, especially the TRUE CAI's which mount similarly to the stock setups, where the opening for air to enter is outside of the engine bay and located in the front bumper in the wheel well area.

Study up on static pressure loss and fluid friction... Bernoulli's equation is a good place to start (not to bust your balls too bad but it's part of what I do for a living). The engine has a certain amount of suck/blow with which it has to draw air in and expel air out. Every inch of tube (intake or exhaust) counts against that value... the smaller and/or the rougher, the more it hurts. Every elbow counts for a ton... in round ductwork we assume one 90 degree elbow is equivalent to 15 feet of straight ductwork... wrap your head around that! Then of course there's the filter... the more open area in the filter, the less restrictive it is. Larger round filters with deeper pleats have greater surface area, and so for a given efficiency (basically how much open area and how small are the holes) will produce less resistance to flow. Things like transitions in diameter also impede flow. Ridges inside the pipe are EXTREMELY harmful. So between all the rubber elbows and the resulting internal ridges, and the insane length of additional tube, I contend that the "cold air" setups don't do squat for the car. Matt Robertson (member here) conducted lots of testing to determine if intake air charge affected performance. The result? Not to any level that could be measured.
its almost 2008. 2006 is a long while ago, brah


also to point out, a LARGE majority of the posts i am reading, especially the CAI stuff, are mostly tests on the V8.
V8's are a totally different beast... for starters, the computer has far more advances and limitations, such as the MDS. the SRT seems to be the only all out race setup. the V6's are relatively underpowered and have room to improve. i appreciate input from all, but the V8 guys have to realize that the results from the V8 will not necessarily apply to the V6. thats why i post in the V6 forum, to try and find results from V6 tests. OHV vs SOHC, different displacements, etc. granted its all one giant air pump, even our V6 manifolds are "dual staged/dual tuned", which offers yet another difference in results during testing.

most people are under the impression that you need to change to a 180 degree thermostat, when thats whats stock in i believe most the LX's at least the 3.5's...

This is very true. Problem is nobody with a V6 has taken the initiative to get together a bunch of parts and pay for a full day of dyno time. MOFO/GIFO weren't cheap by any means! Nothing's stopping people from getting results, other than lack of initiative. As far as the stat goes, it's cheap insurance.

and that one post with statements such as this:



the jet chip doesnt recognize the octane of the fuel. theres no sensor/monitor the meausures the octane. the jet chip has resistors inside of it. those resistors as said are the same ones one ebay as i pointed out above. they translate the accurate.....well here, i did a post on this already, brah... a bit easier to explain it: V6 Jet Chip experience?

The JET chip doesn't measure octane... but the car does! Not chemically of course. But the knock sensors keep the car running "safe"... run crappy fuel and the car sees the knock and pulls timing. Run better fuel, though, and the car doesn't know to push the envelope... that's what the JET chip does. Again, I think the thing is more show than go, but it does help a lil bit.

seriously, i appreciate the keywords for the link searches. just nothing really came up that was recent, or had the dynos. the links were busted and most of the tests were from 05 - early 06. theres been computer changes, and people says, nothing happens with intakes except for these 2 or 3, but with guys getting faster on the track with different intakes, custom exhausts, etc and still no programmer, or many with no modules installed...

If you took a bone stock car and tossed on a K&N intake, you wouldn't gain anything. Toss on a 3" exhaust with straight-through mufflers at the same time, and of course you see gains. Scientific method... change one variable at a time! We've seen w/ the Predator that you can wring 20 horsies and 20 ft-lbs out of a car just with tuning, and the difference gets bigger with mods. The PCM code (stock) is written to protect the car and provide a reliable, emissions-friendly performance. You can bolt a ton of stuff on, but the car will still try to reach "equilibrium"... which somebody defined inside the little black box. That point needs to be changed to realize the true potential of anything.

my logic tells me times are a changin hope ya understand where i am comin from here. dont mean any disrespect, but not many of the claims on majority of the forums are validated by any proof. especially when new products come out. people have a tendency to stick with what they know or are comfy with.

it just seems not many at all here test things. and since butt dynos are not accurate....

I absolutely, unequivically agree with this statement. Until you strap it down, you don't know squat. Race times and actual performance are the true measures, but there are sooo many variables that go into running a 1/4 mile that all you can measure there are significant changes. Anything less than 0.15s or so and who knows what caused it.

No disrespect taken man, friendly discussion is why we're here

[magnum4sissies]

Took out the air silencer.. that thing is a bugger to get out.
A LOT bigger then i thought.

I removed 2 screws from the shroud/bumper.
3 clips on the shroud to under side of bumper.
3 clips on the wheel well lip.

man, getting the thing out of the opening was the hardest parts. screws and all were fairly easy. And the Clips were a damned bitch to work back it, but I got them back in securely.

[Super T]

Well, I'm assuming the air box silencer is the box around my air intake?

Do I just remove it? Is it supported without?

Also, what all goes into the resonator removal?

First off, what engine do you have?!?! If you pull the airbox (the big black box that's connected to your throttle body via an ugly black tube, assuming you have an 8-cyl), underneath it there's a plastic tube that goes down through a hole in the frame to suck in cooler air. Yank that sucka out, it restricts airflow.

The resonators might also be called the rear mufflers. The big one in the middle of the car (affectionately called the "suitcase" due to its size and shape) quiets the whole thing down. The resonators are designed to tune out certain trouble frequencies (the resonant freqencies of the pipes an the car, for example). Both of these things use a baffle type design, which slows down airflow. Removing any or all of them and replacing with straight-through mufflers will improve your flow. Obviously, increasing the diameter of the tubing will help too. Anything over 3" is wholly unnecessary for our cars though... a little backpressure is a good thing and is needed for the engine to function properly. So any, removing them is easy, just some bolts and a hacksaw. But then you have to weld in pipe to replace them.

**edit* just noticed yoru signature, did you have that before???? You still have a muffler and a resonator on the V6, same rules apply. You can convert to duals too if you'd like :-)
And as far as intakes for the sixbangers go, the AirHammer H.O. was also dyno'd to show gains. And don't think I'm blindly supporting those guys. Scott, no offense here bud, gonna tell it like I saw it at the time... I was extremely skeptical of this hillbilly that came out of the woodwork with his brainchild 'thing' claiming he had invented a better mousetrap. Few dyno runs later, I started to come around. Talked to the guy in person, and I was blown away. Ain't nobody that tops the guys at hammer when it comes to dedication to the cause. His background is practical, not formal, but it serves him (and as a result, us) quite well. Look into that intake if you're considering one! PM Rev.Hammer or Wheelife for more details. They made a believer outta me.

I think that intake and a dual pipe conversion will get you off to a good start. No tuning for you guys yet, but it will eventually come. You can always put the car on the bottle... a 75 shot can make a big difference.

[magnum4sissies]

I'm not looking for speed or performance at all. This car is all looks/sound ... cruisin around daily drivin car for the next few years.


So, you lost me, is it possible to get the resonator out on the v6?
Also, if i had a Hemi, I doubt i'd post here asking for advice, heh heh.


I mean, if I can spend a little money, and get a fairly noticible result[Sound wise mainly], then I'll go with that for now. But, if getting a new catback/exhaust would do me better, then time and money will be put into place for a new exhaust system.

Yeah, I forget to say, I'm not trying to make the fast v6 here,, if i did I would had gotten a honda or some other little ricer. I just want a big, fat american cruiser that sounds and looks cool.

As for the AirHammer, I'm interetested in those and am planning to purchase one sooner or later.