CTV news Street racing law poll

[rampant]

Go to the bottom of the page and cast your vote as to whether you think the new law is fair or unfair.
So far the majority is voting that the law is indeed fair !!!

http://toronto.ctv.ca/

[3Dave3]

Well I voted no as it was a bill put through in too big of a hurry because it was an election year and leaves the situation totally at the cops discretion with no recourse whatsoever and if he is having a bad day then you just might be too.

Dave...

[Go Mango]

53% say it's unfair.

[rampant]

53% say it's unfair.

Around 4pm it was 84% said fair / 16% unfair

Lucky the cars guys have forums to communicate

We have banded together and turned the tables in a hurry. It will be interesting to see how the media pins that. I bet we do not hear a peep or it will be spun some how.

[Cdn_Magnum]

The law has to start some place. Though I am not 100% in favour of the way its implemented, I do feel that they need to do something to curb street racing. If a friend or relative of your was injured or killed as a result of street racing, I think you'd have a different opinion (as most of us would). So long as it doesnt directly effect us then we feel its ok to do it. Lets face it the laws are made for the good of the majority. If its an un-popular law then you do have the power to lobby to change it. If you want to change it then help your local politician with suggested changes.

[rampant]

The law has to start some place. Though I am not 100% in favour of the way its implemented, I do feel that they need to do something to curb street racing. If a friend or relative of your was injured or killed as a result of street racing, I think you'd have a different opinion (as most of us would). So long as it doesnt directly effect us then we feel its ok to do it. Lets face it the laws are made for the good of the majority. If its an un-popular law then you do have the power to lobby to change it. If you want to change it then help your local politician with suggested changes.

We will have to agree to disagree.

This law did not have the public in mind, in my opinion. It was a cash grab and a step towards removing our rights. It had nothing to do with street racing, that was just a political term to slip this law through under the typical Canadian sheeps noses. There were laws exisiting already to cover street racing, but you had rights. Now it has nothing to do with racing, it is stunting.

I personally have zero issue with bigger fines or punishing extreme speeders, though I do think that the highway and country road limits are 10-20kms to low. City streets I would not touch, maybe even lower a little in some areas.

I have had no tickets for 7 years and none for 7 years prior to that one. Chirping your tires is not street racing. I had a club member pulled over a threatened with towing for his tires spinning in the rain in a standard Camaro pulling away from a light. That is not racing, it is in fact pretty much normal for the tire to spin a couple revolutions.

If I am being given a ticket I get a day in court before any costs to me. Found guilty by a different person, and I pay the fine. I am good with that. The current law will cost you an minimum of $500 with no recourse or responsibility to the officer who towed your car or took your lic.

Even with an impaired charge you get taken back the to station and retested by a different person on a different machine. Again I feel this is fair.

New law, you get pulled over, accused, lic taken away, car towed, and left at the road side, with a big bill coming your way no matter what the judge says. You are striped of any rights at the road side. It sounds more like a Mexican roadside ticketing. Badges we don't need no stinking Badges. Well at least no judges are needed anyway.

I am all for safety, but I am not willing to give up my rights, for someone who will do the extreme, laws or no laws.

They have said that accidents are down, but that will be twisted by them to justify what they have done to us. They also have said people are driving less do to gas prices, less cars = less accidents.

Those are my thoughts. I do respect your rights to an opinion, I just do not agree with most of it.

[Cdn_Magnum]

We will have to agree to disagree.

This law did not have the public in mind, in my opinion. It was a cash grab and a step towards removing our rights. It had nothing to do with street racing, that was just a political term to slip this through under the typical sheeps noses. there were laws exisiting already to cover street racing, but you had rights.

I personally have zero issue with bigger fines or punishing extreme speeders, though I do think that the highway and country road limits are 10-20kms to low. City streets I would not touch, maybe even lower a little in some areas.

I have had no tickets for 7 years and none for 7 years prior to that one. Chirping your tires is not street racing. I had a club member pulled over a threatened with towing for his tires spinning in the rain in a standard Camaro pulling away from a light. That is not racing, it is in fact pretty much normal for the tire to spin a couple revolutions.

If I am being given a ticket I get a day in court before any costs to me. Found guilty by a different person, and I pay the fine. I am good with that. The current law will cost you an minimum of $500 with no recourse or responsibility to the officer who towed your car or took your lic.

Even with an impaired charge you get taken back the to station and retested by a different person on a different machine. Again I feel this is fair.

New law, you get pulled over, accused, lic taken away, car towed, and left at the road side, with a big bill coming your way no matter what the judge says. You are striped of any rights at the road side. It sounds more like a Mexican roadside ticketing. Badges we don't need no stinking Badges. Well at least no judges are needed anyway.

I am all for safety, but I am not willing to give up my rights, for someone who will do the extreme laws or no laws.

They have said that accidents are down, but that will be twisted by them to justify what they have done to us. They also have said people are driving less do to gas prices, less cars = less accidents.

Those are my thoughts. I do respect your rights to an opinion, I just do not agree with it.

Well your right about the ... we will agree to disagree. I'm not saying that it cant and isnt mishandled on the laws part (sometimes). As far as saying our speed limits are too low by 10 to 20 km... that will only mean that you will speed that much more over the limit. Lets face it there are too many accidents now from people driving too close at the speeds we have now. And dont go down the path of asking me if i drive over the highway limit ...as i do but not by much. There is driving over the limit then there is speeding/careless driving over the limit. I would say thats its more the street racing that pi$$es me off more than anything. If you want to race, why not do it properly at the track. I read reports almost every few days about a death from excessive speeds or racing (please understand that i see the police reports daily... the ones the public doesnt see/read about).
I'm not against having fun, but i am against the act of not taking into consideration the life of someone else.

[Zoban]

While I agree with the law in it's base form.. I strongly disagree with how it was implemented..

Aside from that we can argue pro/con back and forth all day and be no wiser for it..

[rampant]

Well your right about the ... we will agree to disagree. I'm not saying that it cant and isnt mishandled on the laws part (sometimes). As far as saying our speed limits are too low by 10 to 20 km... that will only mean that you will speed that much more over the limit. Lets face it there are too many accidents now from people driving too close at the speeds we have now. And dont go down the path of asking me if i drive over the highway limit ...as i do but not by much. There is driving over the limit then there is speeding/careless driving over the limit. I would say thats its more the street racing that pi$$es me off more than anything. If you want to race, why not do it properly at the track. I read reports almost every few days about a death from excessive speeds or racing (please understand that i see the police reports daily... the ones the public doesnt see/read about).
I'm not against having fun, but i am against the act of not taking into consideration the life of someone else.

Again, I think in some ways we want the same thing, but have different opinions of how to get there.

I am in my 40's and I am not a street racer.

As for the speed and proximity thing, I feel that is a result of people wanting to drive a speed you are comfortable at. If there are others going slower you get a big speed differential and that is the real hazard on the road. IMO.

Go to NB and drive on the highways with a 110km speed limits, almost no one is over 120-125 and there is no tailgating. Last week coming up I75 in the US the speed limit is 70mph and people are going 120kms which seems to be a more comfortable speed in todays cars. Almost everyone is at the same speed and more respectful of each other. when the speed limit is low, you get a split on comfort and follow the limit, that is a bigger hazard.

I also am a strong advocate of the take it to the track, hence why I am on the exec of a club dedicated to just that. But our politicains set up police and MOE, MTO road blocks outside of these track to harrass the people trying to do it legally. Does it really seem like they want us to take it to the track or just tally up fines for the government war chest. They are not trying very hard to protect the people on the street if they push the kids back onto the street. I would like to see the police hand out vouchers to encourage kids to take it to the track and be safe and respectful on the streets.

As mentioned I am a member of a motorsports club and it is hard to talk young guys into coming to the track when they get harrassed on their way there.


They always have some excuse why they do it, but always seem to have a willing fine book in hand too.

I will say it again, for the police and the politicians it seems to be more about control and money than about your safety. Look at Redlight cameras. They started removing them because they did not make them enough money, nothing to do with safety. Cold hard cash.

I am not a Police officer and do not have the get out of jail free card that some seem to get. I have seen many high speed runs by police cars on the high way only to see them later at the same service center I stop in. Are they better drivers than me? Maybe a few, but not many will be, and they did get there Timmys before me. A perk of the job I guess.

I have met many good LEO's (90%), but I have met to several power hungry ones (10%) too and giving them roadside power scares the hell out of me. There is no checks and balances in this law. None.

I think we both want the same thing, just have different opinions on how to get there and what we are willing to or not sacrafice for it.

[Cdn_Magnum]

Well like i said...lobby your politicians if your think you are right. Thats the problem in many cases, these laws are made because no one came up with a better version of it. As far as a money grab for police, hmmm not here, we dont see the money from fines levied .... the city gets it. In some cases with these cars its about safety when they set up the MOE/MOT safety checks. Many of these vehicles have multiple safety violations and are unsafe for the road regarless of what they look like on the outside. But there again, if its not to peoples liking lobby for change. If you honestly think that laws are just made to inconvienence people or as a cash grab then your being a bit narrow minded (no that wasnt a shot).

Oh and btw... i'm in my 50's .... I've done the muscle car thing (but never took it to the streets)

</rant> </end of my input>

[RFischer]

Rampant - you're bang on - no due course of justice with these laws !

[rampant]

Well like i said...lobby your politicians if your think you are right. Thats the problem in many cases, these laws are made because no one came up with a better version of it. As far as a money grab for police, hmmm not here, we dont see the money from fines levied .... the city gets it. In some cases with these cars its about safety when they set up the MOE/MOT safety checks. Many of these vehicles have multiple safety violations and are unsafe for the road regarless of what they look like on the outside. But there again, if its not to peoples liking lobby for change. If you honestly think that laws are just made to inconvienence people or as a cash grab then your being a bit narrow minded (no that wasnt a shot).

Oh and btw... i'm in my 50's .... I've done the muscle car thing (but never took it to the streets)

</rant> </end of my input>

Hey,

I'll listen to everyones opinion, I like to learn what the different points of view are. We each have our own views due to our unique pathes through life we have followed.

I have worked with politicians before on local zoning stuff and they are driven by money. The police are the foot soldiers and told what to do so they do it. As for contacting the local politicians, there have been some people that have organized petitions, which I have signed, but it will come down to the revenue generated if they can get away with it and they use the media very well to manipulate the truth.

I hope and pray one day we get some sensible leadership with a brain, including the police board.

I doubt it will ever affect me, other than if some one does not like the way my Firebird looks and decides to hassle me.

[EricD]

It is called Social Engineering

[fastlayne]

A number of headlines today are quoting OPP Sgt. Cam Woolley (see http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...olice-say.aspx
) who attributes a 40% decline in traffic fatalities in the last year, in part, to the new street racing law. I wonder what Cam is going to say when (and it will happen) the numbers show a 40% increase in traffic fatalities. There are so many factors, that making this type of connection is amateurish even for the headline seeking Woolley.

Let me take an equally ridiculous position and say that the ballooning charges of street racing (over 5000) in the past year indicates that there has been a 10-fold increase in street racing. Maybe the 50km/hr limit should be reduced to 30 to catch all these street racers. Or maybe some of those 5000 charges weren't really street racing.

When the 410 extension was opened in north Brampton, this past spring, it didn't take long for the OPP to set up their speed trap. (The extension currently dead-ends at a T-intersection controlled by a full traffic light.) The posted speed limits run from 100, to 80, to 60 as the 2 northbound lanes of the highway approach the intersection. So anyone, and there have been many, that was cruising at 110 or higher and did not adjust their speed, immediately became a street racer and could only watch as their car was hooked up and towed away.

Fair? Not even close! Cash grab? Obviously! The tow trucks were lined up 4 deep - they know where the cash is. And not to be outdone, the Peel Regional Police got into the act too.

I can only hope that a large number of the pending charges will be beaten in court and that the whole street racing law is thrown back to Queen's Park for rework.

[Copmag]

There were already several laws on the books that covered this depending on road conditions, area and speed limit. There was no need for the new law. Only change to actual racing would be for the police to not have to apprehend both vehicles for racing.
Acts such as Careless driving (HTA), Dangerous Driving (Criminal Code) and Criminal Negligence (CC) already were applicable and had severe penalties. It's just smoke and mirrors for the politicians to give the impression that they've really done something.