Wheel vibration

[Dr Teeth]

OK, here's my dilema. I bought a set of rims from Discount Tire Direct in early June. After I put them on I had a vibration at about 80 KPH, enough to make the steering wheel visibly shake, so I took the car to Blaskin and Lane and had them balanced. No difference.

Next I took the car to Harper's tireand had the road force balance done. Their machine said that two of the tires were marginal, but they managed to balance them anyway. That seemed to do it. No more shake at 80 KPH and 110 or 120 was OK too. I was completely happy, until the big M&G at Mikes place. Driving home I tucked in behind BlackSunshine. Everytime he and I hit 140 I got a wicked vibration through the car. OK, here we go again.

I called Discount Tire and explained what was going on. They felt the problem was likely due to the marginal tires, so they sent two more up, and I booked another appointment with Harper's tire to have them installed.

The morning of the install I took the car out for a run so I could describe the exact symptoms. To my surprise I could take it to 180 KPH without any vibration! I have no idea why it vibrated above 140 earlier on the QE II. Anyway, I figured I had the tires anyway, so I may as well get the marginal ones replaced.

After Harper's replaced the two marginal tires and re-road force balanced the other two rims I took it for a spin. CRAP! The vibration and steering wheel shake I had at 80 KPH before was back, only now between 90 and 100. So last night I decided to do some self diagnostics. I swapped the right front for the right rear. No change. Then I swapped the left fornt and left rear. Still no change. Finally I decided to put the stock rims and tires back on. Viola, no more vibration. Today, just to see if the vibration might somehow have been caused by the stiff sidewall on the aftermarket rims, I decided to increase the inflation on the stock tires to 51 PSI (the max on the sidewall). They now ride as stiff as the 20 inch Falkens, but still no vibration, so it's not a sidewall stiffness issue.

Obviously the aftermarket tires and or rims are the cause, but I'm still confused. Whay would the vibration above 140 KPH vanish without doing anything? And the new vibration (with the two new tires) would come and go on a straight stretch, almost like something was going in and out of phase, yet on a straight stretch the tires should rotate at the same speed, so they shouldn't go in and out of phase.

I'll be calling Discount Tire tomorrow morning, as well as Harper's tire, but in the meantime does anyone have any idea what the problem might be.

PS: I made sure all the hucentric adapters were still present (and the right size), the lug nuts show an even wear pattern all around the shoulder, so the shoulder angle seems correct; and I torque everything incrementally with a torque wrench.

[Hemi RT]

What rims and what is the specifications on the bolt pattern?

[Dr Teeth]

Voxx 20 inch, 5 on 115.

[Hemi RT]

Voxx 20 inch, 5 on 115.

OK, now on the back of the rims are there what look like areas around the hole where a washer might sit in, if not, take the retainer clips off the studs, usually 2 or 3 per wheel, these hold the rotor on during assembly and are not required afterwards.

Hope you know what I'm talking about

[Dr Teeth]

OK, now on the back of the rims are there what look like areas around the hole where a washer might sit in, if not, take the retainer clips off the studs, usually 2 or 3 per wheel, these hold the rotor on during assembly and are not required afterwards.

Hope you know what I'm talking about

Yep, I do, and sorry, I should have mentioned that I did that when I first mounted the rims.

[Hemi RT]

Yep, I do, and sorry, I should have mentioned that I did that when I first mounted the rims.

OK, Now it's getting interesting.

Have you checked the outer tie rod ends, there has been a problem with them, also the inners have been found to be loose.

I would ecpect the tie rod ends as it comes and goes.

Also were the wheel nuts supplied with the rims or are you using the factory ones. You may want to get some engine dye, paint it on the taper of the nuts, screw them down by hand and see if you are getting full contact with the bevel in the rim. I'm suspecting that you aren't getting full contact and the rims are moving slightly.

Another thing you can do is dial indicate the rims and see how much run out and out of round there is.

Finding a vibration can be fun and time comsuming.

[ExLx]

Hey Scot I have heard of a new cause to the vibration !!! Lift your car up and check for wheel slop, some members are now saying around 25,000km's there getting vibration. They have taken them to the dealerships to find out there wheel bearings are toast. And there isn't just one case there are numerous cases. Just check it yourself like your checking your ball joints, grab the top and bottom of the wheel and try to rock it back and forth.
Hey man I have heard all the stories. Also I have these guys up here at The Tire Warehouse that did my wheels on that computer print out balancer. They say this balancer can get with in 1/4 ounce as for the road force balance we did before was 1 ounce out on the same tire.
I'm not sure if you guys have a location in Calgary but I'll tell you it was night and day. Before you jump the gun though just check your wheel bearings, I know it sounds crazy and your most likely saying they fine JUST check them or fly it to the dealership and have them check them.
Just trying to help

[GRL70]

Had same problem...found out the rim was "out of round". They (Discount Tire) could see it wobble when they tried to balance it. Did the best they could, ordered me another rim...still waiting for it and hub rings.

[Dr Teeth]

A road force balance machine checks out of round. All four rims check out OK. I'm inclined to dismiss suspension/steering issues as it goes away when I put the factory rims back on. However Jim's idea of the engine dye intrigues me. I'm going to see if I can track some down and see if that shows anything.

[BAKBRNR]

A buddy of mine had a wheel bearing go on his SRT 300 as well as needing tie rod ends. He had it in for service at the dealer wanting an all points inspection before his trip to Vegas, they gave him the all is good. He still didn't feel comfortable with how it was handleing so he took it in for an alignment, only to be told the could not do it until he had tie rod ends and wheel bearing replaced. Now back to the dealer with a mad on to get the work done under warranty that should have been caught by them in the first place. Be aware that the bigger wheels will accentuate any existing problem, so even though the problem goes away with the stock wheels, it might be better to err on the side of caution. IMHO

[Dr Teeth]

I called Harper's. They're going to re-do the road force balance with the technician that did it the first time. If I still have the problem after that I'll have the dealer check the suspension.

Thanks everyone!

[Hemi RT]

Found anything out yet? The Force balance can check for out of round but not run out on the rim, you have to dial indicate it to see if the rim has run out. Seeing it's on the front I'd suspect something failing in the front end if the run out is within specs. Use the runout specs for the stock rim if you are going to check this. Find someone with a good dial indicator and you can do it yourself.

One more thing, did you change rotors? even if you didn't, check the rotor and hub face for run out, I had this happen once when the rotors were changed on another car.

[LX HEMI]

I'd say if your car was driving fine with the stock rims and tires and you only get the vibration with the new rims and tires and a balance of the tires doesn't resolve the problem then you'd have a bent rim. They can still balance a bent rim into normal range but you'll notice a ton of weights on that rim and that's not good. I'd get them to replace it if that's the case.

[Dr Teeth]

Well I had the road force balance done again and everything's still the same (Vibration between 95 and 100 KPH). I called Discount Tire and they're giving me VERY good service! I'm to ship the rims and tires back to them and then fax them all the bills for everything I've paid so far (balancing, duty on the repalcement tires, shipping everything back, etc.) They're going to reimburse me for everything, then check the tires and rims very carefully. If they find a fault they'll correct it and ship them back. If not they'll refund the purchase. I can't ask for more than that. Unfortunately that means I'll have the ugly stockers on for the M&G!

[ExLx]

Hey Scot why don't you run your car in and have the tie rods checked and the wheel bearings as well before going any further. It may not even be a wheel problem.