Dyno Time: 11:30 – 4pm
Dyno Temp Range: 79 – 85 degrees F
Dyno Location: SVS Automotive Research and Development Dept, Sacramento (www.svsrnd.com)
Dyno Driver and test administrator: Bob Crespo of SVS R and D
Dynamometer: Superflow AutoDyn SF 840 Chassis
Dyno Setup: All tests were run with a fan blowing from the front of the vehicle as well as across the tail area. The ESP fuse was pulled for all tests (fuse 17). The hood remained down for all tests. The computer was allowed to “reset” for 10 minutes between each new intake (more on the reset later).
Dyno Raw Data and WinDyn reader: https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/SS/SharedStorage.asp?id=4187206533921128193f26c50c483 00a26c53454487d271606a2315342c14297 (enter your username to download the zip file. Unzip it, install WinDyn and work with the files until you cant stand it anymore
Track Time: 7-9pm
Track Temp Range: guessing 80-75??
Track Location: Sacramento Race Way
Track Driver: gotls1 for all runs. She volunteered her extensive bracket racing experience and know-how. This lady really knows how to drive!
Lets get right to the numbers:
And here are the track results:
The above table was derived from actual dyno data (Max STP Hp and Max STP Torque), as well as externally measured readings (dB, Start and End temps). All the raw data is available to everyone here: https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/SS/SharedStorage.asp?id=4187206533921128193f26c50c483 00a26c53454487d271606a2315342c14297 (enter your screen name and you’ll be permitted to download the file, there is no password required). In order to view the data, you’ll need to unzip the file and then install the WinDyn software (also included in the download). You’ll then have the ability to view all the data we gathered in any way you wish. Compare runs, intakes, find averages, plot data, chart data… its all possible.
At the track gotls1 ran a couple of times with the stock setup and pulled an amazing 14.641 @ 96 mph. We then swapped out the stock setup with what seemed to be the day’s favorite, the Mopar. As you can see, she ran a very nice 14.63 @ 95.9 the first time, then waiting with the engine on for almost ½ hour she ran a 14.74 @ 95.5. We were thinking this *might* be heat soak, the track cooling off or maybe some transmission shifting factor… notice that her 60 foot time is almost exactly the same!
Obviously, these numbers will surprise some folks. Hell, they surprised a lot of us that were there! The only ones that didn’t seem particularity surprised were Bob of SVS and his crew. This was not the first time in their very extensive experience that a group of bolt on parts made little to no difference. When we explained that these numbers will provoke a wide range of reaction and some folks might actually get angry, he offered to discuss with anyone some of the more technical reasons these results shouldn’t be unexpected. He’s asked that if anyone has any question at all on a more technical level than I or anyone here can answer, that you call or email him. His contact info can be found at their (slightly under construction) website www.svsrnd.com. Bob has no vested interest in any intake as he sells nothing except his expertise and testing abilities. His offer is purely based on a desire to educate and we sincerely appreciate all his wonderful efforts.
Putting the raw performance numbers aside for a moment, the intakes themselves did not come out equal in terms of our general impressions. Here are a few thoughts I gathered from the general opinion of the crowd for each intake.
-Volant: A very nicely built, well-constructed unit. Its most certainly the most difficult to install and requires the most “wrench” know how.
There was significant initial confusion when these units were released, as Volant apparently mixed up 300 and Magnum parts. The official word from Volant was the pickup tube is in fact supposed to face sideways (the passenger side) and that’s how we ran the tests.
In terms of sound, the slightly louder “growl” was appealing to the folks that really enjoy a quiet cabin. When you get on it, you will hear the growl, but it’s more like a purr when compared to the others.
-Open Air: We were surprised to see this was not as loud as the Mopar intake. Beyond that, I think we were all cringing too much to notice anything else… we all had visions of the engine flying apart when something nasty got sucked down in… thankfully, nothing did!
-Air Charger: Again a well built unit. Many folks liked how it “seals” to the top the hood. There was considerable concern, however, that over time “heat soak” would affect it and actually reduce the performance.
-Mopar: I *think* this ended up being the crowd favorite. It’s the easiest to install, looks the best and flat out sounded mean. Heat soak may be an issue here too, however.
-Airaid 360: The general comments were positive here too. The use of the stock air box bottom made install straight forward. It also seals against the top of the hood. Since this unit is effectively captured between the stock box and the top of the hood, heat soak may be less of a concern.
-K&N Drop In. For those that like the stock box, this seemed like a winner. However, based on the performance numbers, it may seem the only benefit might be an increase in MPG and a lower maintenance cost.
This was interesting. As you may know, I installed the Volant the weekend before heading to Sac. During that week I drove approximately 400 miles before showing up to SVS. That should have been plenty of time for the computer to adjust. However, if you look at the numbers, there simply is no statistical difference between a fully “calibrated” computer and a completely “default” computer.
Now, what does “default” computer mean? There has been a lot of speculation regarding this. I’ve read many times how resetting the computer (PCM, TCM ect…) may or may not improve performance. I’ve also read how it can take 2 seconds to 2 days to fully reset the computer. Since I didn’t have 2 days, I had to come up with another solution. This was the result:
What you’re looking at is a disconnected negative lead. Attached to the still connected positive lead and the now disconnected negative lead is a 5w 12v light. If there was ANY current still in the system (a capacitor??) that light should have at the very least flickered. It did not.
This could mean two things: 1) there is some kind of diode setup that doesn’t allow backflow of current (something we can’t test) or 2) there simply is no capacitor and therefore no resident current that needs discharging off.
There still can be some programming or “memory” at the computer level. However, it would need to be in the form of an EEPROM or similar and no amount of discharge is doing to wipe that permanent memory.
We went ahead and “discharged” the computer for 10 minutes after each install anyway, just to avoid any questions…
The numbers don’t lie folks. This test, in the opinion of everyone that took part was as fair, impartial and as close to real life as we ordinary citizens can organize. We can talk theory all day. We can talk about what may or may not have gone wrong. We can talk about ram air effects and throttle body calibration. What we cannot deny, however, is the results generated. Simply put, they show us our stock intakes are every bit as good as any aftermarket intake we tested.
The question has been asked, “What are you going to do Jason, after seeing these results?” My answer is this: I’m going to buy myself a $2 Mopar sticker, slap it on the stock air box and call it a custom cold air intake.
There will be tons of pictures and video to follow. I hope you’ve found this test and these results as interesting as we all did.
PS: For those that attended... thanks! You really helped make it an event for the books. Please, feel free to comment, expand upon or correct me on anything I've said here. I'm sure you guys and gal observed stuff I've missed...
Last edited by CoolVanilla; 06-25-2005 at 03:55 PM.
In terms of hosting pictures, I'm happy to do it over at my Photobucket site. In terms of video, I'm also happy to do it over on my DataDepositBox site. Email or pm me and we can work out how to get me the files.
Thank you for all the hard work. Hope you are starting to recover from lack of sleep and the do;;ar drain on your pocket and time!
You are truly worthy of LXOM.
Of course you know that this is just the begining. The posturing will soon start, and the parameters will be challenged, and hypothesis will surface.
Well put CV. This really was a great event all around, as both tech session and M&G. Props to gotls1 for being the best -- and certainly most experienced -- driver in the field. Lots of great advice on how-to's at the track.
I learned a heck of a lot from Bob via his general comments thru the day -- for those not there he took time out between runs to discuss various aspects of what was going on -- Many of which I hadn't figured on. I think the other folks who had the opportunity to talk with him and hear some of his shop's experience with aftermarket mods -- particularly when we were in the office at the end of the runs -- will agree that it was worth the trip just for that.
Want to re-emphasize the shop's brand-agnostic position. Bob mentioned at one point that the dyno was the "mythbuster" and it was interesting to learn that, from a quality perspective, all dynos are not created equal. For example determining torque via actual physical resistance versus calculating it via extrapolation from other data.
As CV said, they expected this to happen before the first run was even started. I sure didn't but I don't do what they do for a living.
Emotions will run high over this. If you do wind up talking to Bob please remember not to shoot the messenger.
Last edited by MattRobertson; 06-25-2005 at 03:27 PM.
"LxF welcomes with open arms all members, regardless of social status, creed, color, sexual preference, or anything else. The only thing we discriminate against is douchebags."
Check out Darth Hemi in the LxForums Garage
Thanks Red. Everything else aside, it was really fun meeting such wonderful folks, seeing their rides in person, hanging with my dad who was able to make it up there with me, conversing with Bob of SVS and just listening to the years and years of performance experience pour out of him, and watching gotls1 kick the crap outta the other big bad guys at the track (sorry guys, thats a cheep shot I knowOriginally Posted by Cucamonga Red RT
Let the debate begin. I've got no personal attachment here. I invite anyone and everyone to rerun this same test elsewhere on a different car. For me, all the questions I had have been answered.
Excellent point Matt. Please, this man has offered his time up to anyone interested enough to contact him. How you act will reflect upon everyone here at LXForums. Treat him with respect and as you would like to be treated if not for yourself, then at least for the LXForums community.Originally Posted by MattRobertson
Wow guess i am gonna pop in a drop in K&N and be done with it! Great Results i am shocked!
I've already bought the K&N and I'm very disappointed in the numbers. It sounds great and I still think there was an increase in acceleration, but the number just don't agree.
I was there and I agree, all was well run.... but the numbers don't lie.
It was great though.....great meeting all of you and I had a great time.
Last edited by 1CoolVMagnum; 06-25-2005 at 03:43 PM.
Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be despair.com
'05 Magnum RT, Cool Vanilla (mine)
Very interesting indeed -- I was hoping that there would be a clear winner, with a substantial performance boost, and a VALUE correlation to it's cost.
I'm disappointed, but I'll leave all the word-slinging for someone else.
I do have the K&N drop-in -- good to know my maintenance costs will be lower! LOL
To CoolV and the gang, much appreciation for this Consumer Report -- thank you very much!
Oh, I almost forgot: can someone please explain the 340 HP rating vs. the 275-80 HP tested??? Thanks!
Last edited by da BoMM; 06-25-2005 at 03:43 PM.
6.1L HEMI #622 '07 TorRed MSRT8 1/165= TORRED >< 6.1L HEMI '10 Silver Jeep GC SRT8=4X4JETMSRT8 owners http://www.lxforums.com/board/groups/magnum+srt-8+owners/
340 is the engine tested at the fly wheel.Originally Posted by BragonMyMag
275 is HP at the rear wheels (per Bob at SVS the loss of power comes from all the gears, spinning wieght, ect. of the transmition, rear end, ect. and automatics have more loss the manuals)
Last edited by 1CoolVMagnum; 06-25-2005 at 03:48 PM.
CoolVanilla, and others
Thanks for doing this I know it was a lot of work but opfully the fun was enough reward.
I am disappointed that there is no A/F numbers but from the results I would assume they where as consistent as the HP numbers.
Although from my Dyno runs the mixture leaned out with the open air runs.
Can the run graphs be posted somewhere?
I would like to see the whole power curve.
Can someone post pics of all the different intakes tested? I don't know what any of them look like except the Volant.
2006 Inferno Red Magnum SRT8
2005 Silver Magnum RT - SOLD
2005 Brilliant Black Magnum RT - SOLD
maneval69, I strongly encourage you to download the dyno data and reader as mentioned in the first post. Grab that data, plug it into the reader and you'll be able to generate all the charts and curves you wish. You'll also find AF numbers for every run in there too.
My thought was to cover 80% of the folks out there with the easy to read summary table. The remaining 20% can get what they need via the raw data. If you grab the data and generate a plot or table you think others would be interested in, please email it to me and I will most certainly add it here. jason AT cr8urf8 DOT com.
I have one, but my ftp site has crapped on me again. anyone got a place I can put it?Originally Posted by Jim
the picture, not the crap :lol:
I'm reminded of a quote I've used at work:
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. "Lord Kelvin (William Thomson, 1st Baron) (1824-1907) English physicist and mathematician. In: Popular Lectures and Addresses, London, 1889, v. I, p. 73. See also: Life of Lord Kelvin, by S. P. Thompson, 1910, V. 2, p. 792.