Some ''interesting'' commentary on MFO testing results

[mjr5150]

I was kind of surprized to read this elsewhere regarding the methodoligy used in the recent testing of CAI's ....both new and old . Alot of us followed the testing and i thought it seemed very fair (even going as far as letting a vendor who was not ready / had some issues test theirs anyway ) . Apparently not everyone feels that way . This vendor didn't have an issue with the testing when his 5.7 L came out with the best numbers but found ''flaws'' when coming up short . Disclaimer.....i have a CF AH and love it .....but these are not my words . Make of them what you will but i thought the people behind this extensive testing earned major props for doing so . Seems some feel differently ..


airflowgo
Making fast go faster....

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fredericton New Brunswick
Age: 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cibalo
so when are you going to finish compiling the data for the 6.1L?

Where to start with a loaded one like that....

I assume you are referring to the testing done by LX forums?? re; MFO 6, basically the test data for the 6.1 L was a mess and I really don't want to start a war over testing procedures.

Unlike most, I have eaten and slept air intakes for the past 3 years, I understand exactly what is required to get a quantifiable data set, it requires much more effort than LX forums was willing to do.

At this point I am happy to have my existing customers post up about there observations of our products performance, fit and finish.

I also offer an unconditional 100% money back guarantee on all of our intakes, if you arent happy with its performance, fit or finish, simply return it for a full refund, I dont know any other air intake manufacturer offering that.

Having said this I am a firm believer in public, independant testing to which I am attempting to organize an event later this year to demonstrate how it should be done properly.
__________________






Another post on the subject ...........................


airflowgo
Making fast go faster....

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fredericton New Brunswick
Age: 44
Posts: 117
Vehicle: Magnum RT/Charger SXT
Trim Level: Magnum R/T
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One of the problems with the air intake business are companies making seemingly false claims of HP and torque improvement, I wanted Airflow Innovations Corp. to be different.

My hope was that allowing our intake to be independantly tested by LX forums that it would provide our customer with an honest reflection of expected perforance and overall value.

In fact our intake ARIA was the best performing intake against all others on the 5.7 engined cars.

Ultimately I feel our customers are far better at communicating both the performance improvements as well as value for dollar so my initial objective was not publishing our own test data but to rely on the independence of groups like LX forums testing and ultimately my own customers to publish their findings.

A problem arose with the testing by LXFORUMS for the 6.1L engined cars, rather than create a public fire storm over my opinion, I simply decided that we wouldnt use this data.

If you analyze the data for the 6.1 cars you see that no intake did well including ours, this in and of itself implies the testing methodology for the 6.1 cars was flawed, I wont go into details as to why, I simply decided that the data was not credible for the 6.1 cars.

I will not discuss why or what part, i think, the testing is flawed.

Here are the dyno runs.

The Numbers:






The Graphs:
Baselines are in blue. Aria is in red






COMPARISONS:
The Aria is in mustard yellow:







The following was written by the LXFORUMS STAFF
COMMENTS:
The Aria has been the source of much controversy and discussion since it was unveiled. The MFO did its best to avoid all that stuff, and instead to focus on the unit itself. Thankfully when the actual event rolled around and folks got a chance to see it in real life, all the other stuff drifted away. There's simply no denying that this is a quality peice that performs. Its unclear why it dropped so sharply in power numbers against the AFE baseline, but speculation has it this filter is a far denser filter and in theory that should mean better protection for your motor. And given that you have a plethora of color choices, something that is to date unique to Airflow Innovations, this kit deserves serious consideration. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this based on its quality of construction, its supplied hardware and its dead sexy look when installed.


The questions really start from post # 37 on page 4 on and the responses get more confusing as you go . Make of it what you will.......some could care less . I just find it amusing.....



http://300cforumz.com/showthread.php?t=58683&page=4

[higshemi-less]

What's amusing is you decided to start this thread with what intentions? We all know where this is going to go.

Posted via LXFMobile

[Junior]

It is what it is. Folks can decide which data they want to look at.

[mjr5150]

In all honesty .......i am not looking for heated debate man . I just fail to see how you can disregard testing numbers for the 6.1 L ( which you did not have the highest gains ) and champion the 5 . 7 L ( which you did ) without coming off as somewhat hypocritical . And then not quantify as to why you feel the test was not done correctly . Up until now.....i don't think anyone really cared about CAI gains anyway . Serious HP junkies certainly don't care about 3 HP ( although CAM's / other Dual CAI could seriously change the landscape of that statement with Dan's gain's ) . Just found the LXF testing slam to be a bit self serving . Not looking to explode this up into one of those silly threads..........didn't see it that way at the time but i can see how you can . Just found it ironic is all . If it turns into a flame thread......i'll delete it . Was wondering if anyone else found.....or heard issues about the testing ? From what I remembered reading....it seemed more than fair across the board .

What's amusing is you decided to start this thread with what intentions? We all know where this is going to go.

Posted via LXFMobile

[Mosie]

I was kind of surprized to read this elsewhere regarding the methodoligy used in the recent testing of CAI's ....both new and old . Alot of us followed the testing and i thought it seemed very fair (even going as far as letting a vendor who was not ready / had some issues test theirs anyway ) . Apparently not everyone feels that way . This vendor didn't have an issue with the testing when his 5.7 L came out with the best numbers but found ''flaws'' when coming up short . Disclaimer.....i have a CF AH and love it .....but these are not my words . Make of them what you will but i thought the people behind this extensive testing earned major props for doing so .

Thanks for the compliment. A lot of people worked hard, and it is nice to get props, when nothing is expected back in return.

Cool.

[mjr5150]

And it looks like next time around you'll be testing dual TB / filter set ups like CAM's . I can't wait to see it in person on FlyByU Dan's car . Looks like some serious piping . As if Dan needed more HP. My luck I'll end up staged next ot him at some point this season and i will get to admire it from afar . Real far....lol .

Thanks for the compliment. A lot of people worked hard, and it is nice to get props, when nothing is expected back in return.

Cool.

[Mister HP]

As someone who has been modifying high end cars professionally for over 15 years, I can tell you that the MOFO events are the only independant testing for aftermarket products that I have ever seen. With that said, I think the MOFO people should be commended for what they do. Not only are they trying to perform the fairest test possible, but they are also willing to "bend" their own rules to try and help a manufacturer if needed.

I think it's sad that some manufacturers have used this test to "beat thieir own drum" or try to "put themselves on the map" with the results. Some were even so ignorant as to claim victory DURING the live chat while testing was still taking place! You know who you are.

I also think that it's pathetic that the guy who did the least amount of work on his intake,and blatently stole it's design from another manufacturer, would have the nerve to question the testing procedure. You sir, are very lucky that LXforums even tolerates you as a sponsor, and my advice to you would be to keep your mouth shut and sell your intakes without making waves.

Kudos to the MOFO people, good,bad, or ugly, the testing was fair and any manufacturers that don't agree, should really withold their products from any future testing, because honestly, your fellow manufacturers really don't want to hear your whining. We all work very hard to put out our products, and bring the best thing possible to the LX Community. I don't know about other shops, but I take it as a slap in the face when someone steals anothers hard work and takes credit for it as their own.

If I have offended any of the people in question, too bad, you offend me by your mere existence.

If I have offended any of the honest, hard working members of the forum, then I am sorry, that was not my intent, but these people really should know how others view their actions, and I am sure I am not alone with my feelings on this subject.

Ed

[rcboarder76]

[higshemi-less]

Just curious what level of education CV has in math. The overall hp and tq numbers are off on roughly half of the comparisons. Maybe theres a simple explanation but I can't find any correlation between some of them.

[pmpn8ez]

I also think that it's pathetic that the guy who did the least amount of work on his intake,and blatently stole it's design from another manufacturer, would have the nerve to question the testing procedure. You sir, are very lucky that LXforums even tolerates you as a sponsor, and my advice to you would be to keep your mouth shut and sell your intakes without making waves.


If I have offended any of the people in question, too bad, you offend me by your mere existence.


Ed

LOL.......YOU SIR

[MattRobertson]

Let me make it abundantly clear from the start that I am posting as a longtime member of the LX community, who has had his eyes open for some time, and done what I can to help my fellow community members... and not a staff member here.

Got that?

... And then not quantify as to why you feel the test was not done correctly .

If you look at the history of the person in question, you'll find innuendo and disparagement used in conjunction with self-puffery is a signature tactic. I'm not in the least bit surprised, or disappointed. I expect this from him. The posts are here to evidence the pattern... unless they have been deleted or sanitized. The whole, appalling "Wheelife without the Hammer" thread is perhaps the most disgusting example.

Just curious what level of education CV has in math. The overall hp and tq numbers are off on roughly half of the comparisons. Maybe theres a simple explanation but I can't find any correlation between some of them.

Specifics? Since math is universal, unemotional and plays no favorites you should be able to lay the matter bare with no problem. What did you spot that was otherwise missed?

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

If you look at the history of the person in question, you'll find innuendo and disparagement used in conjunction with self-puffery is a signature tactic. I'm not in the least bit surprised, or disappointed. I expect this from him. The posts are here to evidence the pattern... unless they have been deleted or sanitized. The whole, appalling "Wheelife without the Hammer" thread is perhaps the most disgusting example.

[MattRobertson]

Now speaking as a staff member: Vendor-on-vendor bashing is not allowed here.

Vendors are welcomed as contributing members of the community. However the realities of this medium and competition creates conflict between competitors. As a result, vendors are held to a more restrictive standard with regard to their freedom to comment on other vendors or other vendors' products. In short: say nothing negative about any other Supporting Vendor or their products. "say nothing" includes innuendo, smarty-pants remarks, surprisingly catastrophic test results, poisoned cigars or any other creative tactic that the creator thinks is too clever or subtle to be caught onto by the staff. Here again the spirit of the law is what matters, and final judgment is left to the staff as to violating content and the sanctions that may be imposed. Additionally, ordinary members who choose to engage in conduct that is deemed so extreme that they are a vendor's proxy combatant -- be it out of enthusiasm for a vendor's cause, or any other reason -- can result in those members being treated as vendors under these guidelines.

No More. And...

Enough said about that. Publicly at least.

[CoolVanilla]

mjr, I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

I'm not going to address Lance's comments in general. If he has a concern, he can publicly step up to the plate and ask me specific questions. I'll answer them to the best of my ability. If anyone else has a concern based on Lance's comments, by all means lets talk about them. But beyond that I'm not willing to justify his verbal embarrassments by wasting any more time than they deserve.

Higs, please explain your concerns. I still have all the raw data as well as the excel charts. If you've found a problem with my math, please give specifics and point them out so that I can fix them and update the charts.

My 'office' door has always been open. It always will remain open. If someone has a concern, I want to hear it and work it out. I'm not in this for money, or personal gain, or the fame (haha). I'm in this to help fellow LX'ers passionate about their rides make the most informed decision they possibly can. If a vendor such as Lance finds himself butthurt in the process by the truth, so be it.

[higshemi-less]

Lets look at the KrazySRT's first chart for example, baseline numbers were 374 hp and 371 TQ.
Next column down are the results for the C&L w/ no box, the numbers here were 371hp and 365TQ. Now the part I'm trying to figure out is the posted gains or losses. You have down -2 hp for a loss and -6 loss in TQ. Should it not be -3 hp in the hp gains column where as tq numbers are spot on. This goes on through both charts CV, just trying to grasp the findings here and were the numbers came from.