MOFO6 - Heat Resistance of CAI's

[done]

A large number of new CAI’s that have been released since the last MOFO. As part of the ongoing discussion of the pro’s and con’s of all of these new gadgets, much discussion has happened regarding the resistance to heat transfer of underhood heat to the intake air stream.

We see many variations of design intended to thwart heat transfer and have heard many opinions about the validity of each design. As a pioneer of measuring temperatures in the intake (December of 04) and an addicted drag racer, I suggested to CV and Matt that we test heat resistance this year.

Naturally, they volunteered me to head this testing up. Now I cannot make it to MOFO this year, so I immediately recruited more volunteers among the group that will actually be in attendance.

Junior – Wrench, driver and donor car. The testing will be conducted on his Charger Daytona. The key mods that are important to this test are a 180* thermostat, GSM Fan mod and the removal of the lower left radiator baffle.

Mosie – Predator Operator, Computer Operator and data compiler/reporter.

Here is the preliminary protocol for the test.


The test sequence will travel a fixed course on each run. The Predator will be connected and logging Ambient, ACT, ECT and MPH:

1. Using car with 180* thermostat and fan controller that will run both fans), warm to 180* ECT and install CAI.

2. Measure temperature on throttle body to set a consistent staring temp. Cool down or run engine as necessary to obtain temperature. This step is important to account for the radiated heat from a warm engine.

3. Start engine, begin log and close hood and idle with fans on for 7 minutes and log temperatures for each minute. This test simulates waiting in staging lanes at a drag strip.

4. Immediate drive X distance at 30 mph and log temps each minute for x miles. The x miles will depend upon the course that Mosie and Junior choose for the runs but will be about 5 miles. This test simulates city driving.

5. Stop and bake at idle for 3 minutes and log temps.

6. WOT 0- 70 mph and hold at 65 mph for X miles. Measure temp drop over first 10 seconds, 30 seconds and 1 minute and at minute increments afterwards to see how fast the temperature drops to a minimum constant value at constant speed. The X miles will depend on the course chosen but will be the same for all tests.

The Procedure is really simple. Run the test procedure with each intake while logging the entire run through the Predator. Then dump the logs to a .CSV file and into Excel. Then publish the values(Ambient, ACT, ECT, MPH) along a timeline of 1 minute intervals, broken into segments that show idle, low speed, high speed.


This protocol is open for discussion and comment. Please be specific in your comments.

[sidetrack]

I have done some testing of the stock box ACT temps after adding a heat shield. I logged 5 different days during my drive to work without the heat shield, and 5 days with the heat shield. I started the log at the same place on the freeway, about 6 minutes before I arrived at work. I then let the car sit and idle after I arrived at work.

The graph below is the 5 day average, without the heat shield, while the car idled after arriving at work. The red line is the most important as it shows how fast the ACT temps increased compared to the Ambient temps.
The graph shows that the average difference between my ACT and Ambient temps was 12 degrees (ACT 73 degrees less AMBient 61 degrees) at the momement I stopped/parked my car at work.
The increments are 5 seconds. After 1 minute the ACT temp had increased to 79 degrees, or a 6 degree increase.

From my test, I found that my ACT temps ran about 3-4 degrees cooler with the heat shield while driving. I also found that my ACT temps were about the same as stock when parked. These results were actually opposite from what I thought they would be. I thought the ACT temps would be cooler when parked with the heat shield, and the ACT temps would be about the same when driving on the freeway.

I was hoping for a bigger ACT temp reduction with the heat shield. Based on my limited testing I have concluded the heat shield hasn't added much value.

I have since added a heat shield blanket to my catch can, and wrapped a heat shield blanket around the bottom of the air box that faces the engine (not shown). I found the air box side facing the engine would get very hot, even with the heat shield. Since wrapping the bottom of the air box with a heat shield blanket the interior of the box stays cool at all times.

[Mosie]

A large number of new CAI’s that have been released since the last MOFO. As part of the ongoing discussion of the pro’s and con’s of all of these new gadgets, much discussion has happened regarding the resistance to heat transfer of underhood heat to the intake air stream.

We see many variations of design intended to thwart heat transfer and have heard many opinions about the validity of each design. As a pioneer of measuring temperatures in the intake (December of 04) and an addicted drag racer, I suggested to CV and Matt that we test heat resistance this year.

Naturally, they volunteered me to head this testing up. Now I cannot make it to MOFO this year, so I immediately recruited more volunteers among the group that will actually be in attendance.

Junior – Wrench, driver and donor car. The testing will be conducted on his Charger Daytona. The key mods that are important to this test are a 180* thermostat, GSM Fan mod and the removal of the lower left radiator baffle.

Mosie – Predator Operator, Computer Operator and data compiler/reporter.

You are going to trust those hooligans?!?
Great... there goes the neighborhood!!

Here is the preliminary protocol for the test.

The test sequence will travel a fixed course on each run. The Predator will be connected and logging Ambient, ACT, ECT and MPH:

1. Using car with 180* thermostat and fan controller that will run both fans), warm to 180* ECT and install CAI.

2. Measure temperature on throttle body to set a consistent staring temp. Cool down or run engine as necessary to obtain temperature. This step is important to account for the radiated heat from a warm engine.

3. Start engine, begin log and close hood and idle with fans on for 7 minutes and log temperatures for each minute. This test simulates waiting in staging lanes at a drag strip.

4. Immediate drive X distance at 30 mph and log temps each minute for x miles. The x miles will depend upon the course that Mosie and Junior choose for the runs but will be about 5 miles. This test simulates city driving.

5. Stop and bake at idle for 3 minutes and log temps.

6. WOT 0- 70 mph and hold at 65 mph for X miles. Measure temp drop over first 10 seconds, 30 seconds and 1 minute and at minute increments afterwards to see how fast the temperature drops to a minimum constant value at constant speed. The X miles will depend on the course chosen but will be the same for all tests.

The Procedure is really simple. Run the test procedure with each intake while logging the entire run through the Predator. Then dump the logs to a .CSV file and into Excel. Then publish the values(Ambient, ACT, ECT, MPH) along a timeline of 1 minute intervals, broken into segments that show idle, low speed, high speed.

This looks really good Don!

I'll be mapping out a course over the next week that will allow us to mix city, freeway & WOT to adhere to the testing you've created for us. I'll have more specifics, IE: time & mileage of each part of the course once an actual mapped out course has been selected.

I am really looking forward to going thru the testing with Junior in his Nanner, and seeing what value will be added to the LX world via your testing procedure!

[Mosie]

This just came up in another thread so I want to post it here as it pertains to this test.
The first thing is going get a base line for what the stock set up does.
After that, depending on the time available (and a couple of other variables we may not realize until we start testing) we "should" be able to heat test a couple of extra CAI's that are NOT going to be dyno’d.


If there is a CIA that has been tested for performance before and there is a substantial question of HEAT BOGGING IT DOWN, PM Jason (CoolVanilla) to see if we can squeeze it in. Of course, we’ll need to have a unit to test. So it’s limited to what you can get your hands on, get to us in Sacramento, and we’ll go for broke.

[Hemi Chef]

[Carfinish]

just doing this to subscribe and offer some interesting reading on CAI material selection I found long time ago.... my take...plastic/rubber = bad, steel = bad, aluminum=good.

long good read enjoy

http://easyperformance.com/Tech_Info...r_Thermal.html

[DA H.N.I.C.]

How good is Carbon Fiber in regard to heat resistance? Is it just nice to look at or does it have some other functionality?

[MattRobertson]

We will see with real data soon enough. I believe we will be testing units made out of plastic, steel, carbon fiber, alloy... the gamut. I'm really looking forward to seeing these results and correlating them with the dyno/track/airflow performance.

[rwalshphoto]

The system we are submitting is primarily carbon but does contain some fiberglass elements. Based on our testing even the fiberglass tube stays much much cooler than other units made of ABS plastic and metal. We also developed our cold air induction side of the system to be adaptable with other intakes on the market...so far the results adding it to an AFE and Mopar have been notably good, particularly with the AFE according to the customer. Depending on results of this heat test we may consider using only structural carbon for production units.

[done]

just doing this to subscribe and offer some interesting reading on CAI material selection I found long time ago.... my take...plastic/rubber = bad, steel = bad, aluminum=good.

long good read enjoy

http://easyperformance.com/Tech_Info...r_Thermal.html

In the real world, you have to consider the total package. These intakes have many parts of differing materials and several significant design elements. We can "eye ball" them and guess that A is better B is better than C. However, the purpose of the testing is to gather actual temperatures under conditions that are found in the real world. Then, do a relative comparison of those numbers for each intake tested.

To me, the interesting ranking will be the Heat Resistance Temps compared to the Flow HP rankings. Same? Different? We don't know. Surprises coming? I don't know. Let's see some numbers.

[MattRobertson]

Same? Different? We don't know. Surprises coming? I don't know. Let's see some numbers.

Thats the part that has me going here. In a world where we have been playing around hands-on with this stuff for years and think we know everything, we don't really *know* this. I have some ideas but I won't be the least bit surprised if I am totally sideways.

Anticipation.

[CoolVanilla]

Mike, it looks like your car will be the heat test vehicle? Have we decided on that?

[Junior]

Mike, it looks like your car will be the heat test vehicle? Have we decided on that?

I thought that was the plan. Sorry if anyone was waiting for me to confirm that, but yeah, it'll be ready and willing!

I do need to do the "Chilly air mod" - if someone wants to point me in the right direction, I could do that today.

[MattRobertson]

X E Ryder's Chilly Air Intake Mod

I think the scoop he makes in his version is optional. If you just pull the baffle you get the desired result. Not sure it can be improved. Or should be for purposes of the test since so many don't do this.

[CoolVanilla]

I thought that was the plan. Sorry if anyone was waiting for me to confirm that, but yeah, it'll be ready and willing!

I do need to do the "Chilly air mod" - if someone wants to point me in the right direction, I could do that today.

Ok cool. Just trying to get a handle on who I have available to help wrench on a couple of these intakes. You've been 'the man' in the past and I'd hate to give ya up as a resource this time

Having said that... who's driving your car for all the heat tests? IMHO it should be the same driver for all of it, be it Mosie or you or someone else? Its probably a two person trip, yes? One driver, one keeping an eye on the logger making sure its doing its job?

Sorry if I'm coming in on this late. Just trying to make sure I'm in on the loop when it comes to shared resources.