Mods Face Off Result: Jet Stage II Combined with Superchips 91

[CoolVanilla]

Mods Face Off Result: Jet Stage II Combined with Superchips 91
This test consisted of testing the Jet Stage II Chip combination with the Superchips 91 tune, on an extensively modified 2005 Magnum RT, and an extensively modified 2005 300C at the Mods Face Off 5 (MFO5).

Mod Tested: Jet Stage II / Superchips 91 Tune Combo
Date: 10/12/06 - 10/13/06
Dyno Location: SVS R&D, Sacramento CA

***Remember to always review and keep in mind the Mods Face Off Testing Methodology Q&A while reviewing these results.***

The Good:

• Rich! Check out those AF graphs for Meister, and you'll see the Jet fattens up the loaded end.

The Bad:

• Gas mileage; everyone I talked to about this combination reports significantly reduced MPG. My own tests back up these reports; on average I'm 2-4MPG less when the Jet is combined with the Superchips 91 tune.
• Why didn't CoolVanilla show the same change richness in AF? This could mean significant variability between installs (and might have to do with a given mod combination)
• Performance numbers are significantly down for CoolVanilla, and just slightly for Meister. Again, this might be due to the variance in each's specific mod combination?

The Numbers:

CoolVanilla's Results:


Meister's Results:


The Graphs:

These two pulls closely follow the averages for the entire set. This is average vs average, not worst vs best.

CoolVanilla's Results:


And the AF ratio comparison for the same run pictured above:



Meister's Results:


And the AF ratio comparison for the same run pictured above:

[HighHorseman]

Sounds right. The Superchips' makes power by leaning the car out just a bit since it's so rich to begin with (but not making it lean). Adding the Jet Module in conjuction with the Superchips and piggybacking them (never recommended) works against the changes that the Superchips has already done. When used together, it apparently causes the PCM to work against the Superchips tune... pretty much no surprise here.

Good work guys!
Joshua, HHP

[MomsR/T]

Nice numbers there CV..........339+/341

I still think there is more there.

[CoolVanilla]

Heh thanks Moms. You aint alone in that belief. Someone outta make some tuning software...

Based on what we saw with the AFs and timing, we're thinking theres 25-30ish sitting in the tune alone. Timing was around 23ish deg of advance. 30deg is where I ought to be with this setup...

[MagnumFreak]

Someone outta make some tuning software...

Werd!!

[MomsR/T]

CV.......we have a common friend in which we discussed this setup. I'm interest in how you dialed in your cam. Are you SURE you installed straight up and not retarded?

I will be running this very very similar setup.......

A little different head, same cam, hammer, full SRT exhaust, B&GII, and 170 stat.

Plans are for 4 deg advance..............

If you are interested, we can post numbers.........we were going to do a before/after but now my car is whiped out.

I will stay off this subject as to not hi-jack..........but I am willing to step up and work with you CA-fellas to get a result you'll be more happy with. I just know its right.......

I'd be happy to PM you my # and take steps ya'll feel would help ya'll too.

[HighHorseman]

Are you SURE you installed straight up and not retarded?

I'm just waiting for the peanut gallery's comments...

[CoolVanilla]

CV.......we have a common friend in which we discussed this setup. I'm interest in how you dialed in your cam. Are you SURE you installed straight up and not retarded?

Moms, I just checked with my install guru; according to him, up is the only way we could install the cam (and not have serious problems). There is no provision for altering the cam timing with the stock timing gear. It can be done but we would have to redrill the gear and make some sort of offset bushing on the cam drive. To go one full tooth would be way to much probably around 20deg or so.
I still say somebody outta make some tuning software...

[Cam]

I'm just waiting for the peanut gallery's comments...

Well if you insist, here goes.









Someone should really make some tuning software for these things.

[MagnumFreak]

Someone should really make some tuning software for these things.

Werd!!

[monty1269]

Keep hope alive! (See sig) I refuse to give up!!

[Allevon]

Im going to take a stab at this. Im running the piggyback setup. I have done nothing more than BETTER times with each track visit (Provided I got sleep night before and didnt sleep on the re-action time), and my MPG is up about an average of 3 MPG. My question is, did you first run the car for 20+ miles after installing the Jet chip, then after doing that, program using Superchips and driving another 20+ miles between the dyno runs?

The reason I say this is that the cars computer needs to adjust to thenew settings.

As with every rule of thumb with these computers, I ALWAYS run the car on ANY new mod a MINIMUM of 20 miles before assessing gains in performance. 200 Miles would be optimum, but I can understand time constraints with using the dyno.

So basically, according to my anaylsis of an ESTIMATE based on my best run down the track in a lightly modded R/T I pulled a 13.616. If you use the average with DA and time, I pulled about 349 RWHP and calculated 18% drive train loss comes to about 412CHP. But again, this is just a rough estimate using an online calculator.

So any more of these tests going to be run on this particular tune setup and what about the 20 mile runs in between?

[CoolVanilla]

Alle, I don't specifically know for Meister so my comments are for my setup alone.

My MPG comments were based on two tankfuls; approx 600 miles. For some reason at my level of modification and my 05 PCM, the rich condition persisted across these two tanks and cost me significant MPG.

I agree with you with respect to the computer learning a particular setup. But based on our extensive tests, I'd propose your computer is learning how to nullify the effects of the piggyback, not take advantage of it.

There is no doubt this setup makes the system run pig rich. Pig rich systems are dogs; too much fuel will most certainly kill performance. The computer is undoubtedly adjusting its fuel trims so that the measured values fall back in line with the expected values; in other words, its detuning itself to account for the pig rich condition the SC/Jet introduces. So it only makes sense that the longer you're running this piggyback setup, the stronger you're getting. But I'd propose you're no stronger than you would have been had you just ran the SC alone (we've shown the Jet is of marginal benefit).

Unless there is significant further interest, I don't plan to retest this. The results are sound IMHO and they are explainable given our current understanding of the PCM and its extraordinary ability to tune itself.

[Allevon]

Ok thanks that makes absolute perfect sense. I appreciate the quick reply and hopefully, if I get the chance to dyno, Ill post my results to this for the record.

[CoolVanilla]

Ok thanks that makes absolute perfect sense. I appreciate the quick reply and hopefully, if I get the chance to dyno, Ill post my results to this for the record.

Please do! I look forward to reading 'em.