Mods Face Off Result: HEAT Stage I vs Comp Stage I Camshafts

[CoolVanilla]

Mods Face Off Result: HEAT Stage I vs Comp Stage I Camshafts

This test consisted of testing the HEAT Stage I and Comp Stage I Camshafts at the Mods Face Off 5 (MFO5).

Mods Tested: HEAT Stage I & Comp Stage I Camshafts
Date: 10/9/06 - 10/13/06
Dyno Location: SVS R&D, Sacramento CA

***Remember to always review and keep in mind the Mods Face Off Testing Methodology Q&A while reviewing these results.***

The Pre Notes:
There are a handful of things to understand before these results can properly be interpreted.

• The table below shows two nearly identical 2005 Magnums RTs.
• Both Magnums underwent head and cam installs at the same time; both received Frank Racing Ported & Polished heads.
• CoolVanilla's Magnum received the HEAT Stage I Cam. This cam is a NON-MDS camshaft. CoolVanilla's Magnum is unable to operate in MDS mode after the installation of this cam (as advertised).
• MattRobertson's Magnum received the Comp Stage I Cam. This cam is MDS FRIENDLY. MattRobertson is able to operate in full MDS mode, just as normal (as advertised).
• The results below are NOT cam specific. Keep in mind, both Magnums received identical heads in addition to the camshafts. True performance increases due to the camshafts alone are not known or demonstrated via these numbers.
• MattRobertson's Magnum only had two comparable pulls in the after phase of testing (the third pull's data is unusable).

The Numbers:



The Graphs:






The Track:

• Under identical conditions, CoolVanilla's Magnum was able to run a 13.5 and MattRobertson's Magnum was able to run 13.66. Both were on 20" rims and street tires.
• CoolVanilla had significant traction issues. Multiple drivers gave it their best shot, including gotls1 and RobADG, and still the tires seemed to be the new limiting factor. Opinion was that given drag radials of proper size, another 2/10ths are possible off this time.
  • CoolVanilla's Magnum with this cam seemed to have no greater "pull" from 700-2500RPM than stock. The drivers had to strike a balance between staging the engine to get thru that RPM range faster, and not loosing traction. Again, a good set of drags would have made a world of difference here.
• MattRobertson had excellent launch ability and opinion was that the car pulled extremely well throughout the RPM range.

The Post Notes:

• Opinion at SVS, after reviewing the AF ratio's of CoolVanilla's run was that we might have just reached the limit of the stock 5.7 injectors. An effort was made to find 6.1 injectors at the last minute but none could be found.
• Driving impressions: CoolVanilla
  • There are no idle issues. The engine simply purrs like a kitten, and only slightly lopes at idle
  • Off the line, say from a stoplight with no staging, is underwhelming. My personal opinion is that the car pulls no harder than it did when the stock heads and cam were installed.
  • From 2500RPM and up, however, hang on. It will simply pin you and you will break traction between the gears at WOT if your not careful.
  • Non-MDS: Gas mileage has almost not changed. Testing on this is still ongoing, but averaging 26MPG is still commonplace (as per EVIC) on local highways.
  • Overall, the general consensus was that this setup has a ton more potential and that high 12 seconds is not out of the question once a few tweaks can be made to the timing and/or full PCM tuning.
• Driving impressions: MattRobertson
  
  • Power throughout the RPM range, plain and simple
  • There is a slight lope at idle and strangely enough it seemed to be more pronounced than CoolVanilla's cam.
  • MR describes the drive as a car that has lost 500lbs
  • MDS: MPG ratings are still pending. However, MR has noted that MDS now sounds more droney when engaged thru his Zoomers.
  • Overall, the general consensus was that this setup is perfectly suited for an MDS daily driver; its right in the "sweet spot" between performance and drivability. Trying to tweak too much more out of it might require a different cam or significant other changes.

[RobAGD]

Nice write up as usual Jason. I will be very intrested to see/hear how the car reacts to a converter and maybe the TCM.

-R

[lafrad]

it looks like Cool Vanallia's shift points were at higher RPM than Matt's were...

Could that be affecting max HP of the Comp Cam? (seems bigger cams with heads want more revs to get the big "HP" numbers...)

[lafrad]

hmmm
after looking again.. it looks like Matt's cam is more "torquey" in the curve.. producing a flatter power curve.. and both cams (before and after) fall off near the end... so the extra RPM might not help...


Hmm.. the first parts of the graph.. it looks like the cams produce OVER 50 MORE HP at 50 mph... is that for real?


Can you post the "before" graphs and "After" graphs... instead of all 4 runs on eachother?

[CoolVanilla]

Can you post the "before" graphs and "After" graphs... instead of all 4 runs on eachother?

You're looking at torque and hp curves, for only the after runs. The before runs are not pictured.

I'll try to clean these graphs up tomorrow. Right now, I'm sure I'd screw somethin up as I'm starting to see crosseyed

[lafrad]

ahhhhh...
ok
that clears up a *LOT*

[RobAGD]

*cough* 1 gear pulls *cough* :D

Oi!

-Robert

[MattRobertson]

You've got me down as a best of 13.7. I thought gotls1 did a 13.6 in my car? I got a 13.66 as a personal best and I'm certain I didn't beat her best time.

[Cam]

You've got me down as a best of 13.7. I thought gotls1 did a 13.6 in my car? I got a 13.66 as a personal best and I'm certain I didn't beat her best time.

Sounds like you got gipped...........................but it's OK Matt, I believe you..........sure you ran a 13.6.

[Meister]

...the general consensus was that this setup is perfectly suited for an MDS daily driver; its right in the "sweet spot" between performance and drivability. Trying to tweak too much more out of it might require a different cam or significant other changes...

That description of MR's experience with the Comp Cams stage 1 cam (260 grind) pretty much matches my own, CV. It's a sweet cam throughout the entire normal powerband, and, when the heads are complimented with high-performance valve springs, takes one nicely to the next rpm level. Mine pulls strongly to its 6000 rpm shift point.

I would add that intervention via a Stage 2 Jet Chip, Superchips (or another) tuner, or a B&G-flashed ECM is required for the car to idle properly with the stage 1 Comp Cams cam installed. The stock ECM simply cannot adapt on its own to the differences of this cam at idle (only).

[CoolVanilla]

You've got me down as a best of 13.7. I thought gotls1 did a 13.6 in my car? I got a 13.66 as a personal best and I'm certain I didn't beat her best time.

Opps. You've got that slip for prove right? I'll need to see that slip before...

First post updated

I would add that intervention via a Stage 2 Jet Chip, Superchips (or another) tuner, or a B&G-flashed ECM is required for the car to idle properly with the stage 1 Comp Cams cam installed. The stock ECM simply cannot adapt on its own to the differences of this cam at idle (only).

Matt, can you comment on having or not having had a similar experience?

[MattRobertson]

I definitely have my 13.66, you dog :-)

Gotls1 is gonna have to back me up on the 13.60 or not. But I'm pretty sure thats what she told me.

Opps. You've got that slip for prove right? I'll need to see that slip before...

First post updated

Matt, can you comment on having or not having had a similar experience?

[gotls1]

13.64 was my best in MR's car. We're going to have DRs for MFO 6, right? Both cars would benifit from them.

CV - is there a way to effectively lop off the 2nd gear portion of the data set, and just graph the 3rd gear part of the run so we can see power vs. RPM? Was Bob making the runs up to a certain RPM? Did you have a different rev limiter? I'm just curious why Matt's run ends at about 110 MPH and yours goes past 120.

[MomsR/T]

Good to see this comparo...........its the one I've been waiting for.

Has Meister done a dyno for comparision? How does he fair?

Are you happy with the end result CV?

Is there anything someone should know BEFORE he does this same HEAT Stg I cam in your oppinion???

Knowing what you know now, is this the cam you would have gone with?

[CoolVanilla]

13.64 was my best in MR's car. We're going to have DRs for MFO 6, right? Both cars would benifit from them.

Rumor has it we're gonna have more than that; SVS, v2 Frank Racing, DR, HEAT... I don't even want to think about organizing this yet.

CV - is there a way to effectively lop off the 2nd gear portion of the data set, and just graph the 3rd gear part of the run so we can see power vs. RPM?

Not at present. MagnumFreak, however is working on a tool that will allow just this thing. Should be available soon, and I will update all the graphs at that time. Remember though, a true single gear pull will always yield more hp and torque than an acceleration style pull. We really need to get something that will just lock these damn things into third so we can make single gear pulls.

Was Bob making the runs up to a certain RPM? Did you have a different rev limiter? I'm just curious why Matt's run ends at about 110 MPH and yours goes past 120.

Bob & crew noticed mine was making power above 120, while Matt's wasn't. When we noticed that, Bob changed the sample size to allow for a manual start/stop rather than the traditional way of manual start, auto off at 120. Until this head/cam combo, none of our 5.7s have made power beyond 120. This was totally new to the MFO testing.