Mods Face Off 6 (MFO6): Summary, conclusion and discussion

[CoolVanilla]

MODIFICATIONS FACE OFF 6
DECEMBER 4 - 6 2008

2 days on the dyno, one fogged out track day, 11 intakes, 4 LX's, 15 hours of live streamed video & chat, 94 dyno hits, some damn hard work, a handful of 'on the fly' decisions, a few tears, a little blood, a bunch of pizza, a whole lot of drama, countless laughs, and even one now legendary tongue lashing... yeah, you could say it was a good time

Whats a "MFO?" What the heck is this business?
Not sure what the Modifications Face Off is? (sometimes called "MFO" or "MoFO")? Be sure to read this Q&A: Mods Face Off Testing Methodology Q&A

What was tested this time?
Official test results were found for the following production ready units:
-AirHammer Carbon Fiber Gen II: Click here to see the detailed results
-Aria: Click here to see the detailed results
-Billet Tech: Click here to see the detailed results
-Roto-Fab: Click here to see the detailed results
-RDP: Click here to see the detailed results

Prototype and/or incomplete intakes we ended up testing despite our demand for production ready units:
-AE Carbon Stage 1 and Stage 2: Click here to see all the drama
-C&L: Click here to read why we didn't release official results
-True Flow: Click here to see all the drama

Who made all this happen?
Before going any further, I want to take a moment and thank everyone involved. Without you guys and gals, we don't have an event, period. Without the contributors we don't have any money to make this happen. Without the support of SVS R&D, Bob, Mark, and Hank we don't have a venue nor the expertise needed to derive the results. Without KrzySRT, Mosie and kaps we don't have cars to play with. Without the support of the vendors supplying parts we don't have anything to test. Without the hands on installing help of Junior, MAGFX, Mosie, kaps, Trojan, Cam and others, we dont have anyone able to put these things on and rip them off machine gun style. Without TehKing and LadyNilla we don't have a live video feed and webchat. Without EllaSRT, hillbilly, Cam, kaps and Trojan we dont have anything to eat or drink. And without LXForums we don't have a place to communicate and orchestrate all this.

An event like this requires enormous resources in manpower, in finances and in expertise. Without anyone one of the folks or parts I've mentioned, and more I haven't, this entire deal falls flat on its face. If you take anything from these results or the retelling of events, you owe each and every one of these folks a debt of gratitude. Buy 'em a drink if you ever get the honor!

Summary of Results
Ok then, lets get to it! Here is the summary of results for all three cars and all intakes:

KrzySRT's stock SRT8


Mosie's lightly modified RT


kaps' lightly modified SRT


The results in bold in both "HP @ RPM" and "Trq @ RPM" represent the "official result" when the high and low values are tossed out. The "Ave HP" and "Ave Trq" values are the result of the three runs averaged together. Those values in red represent the lows for the test set and those in green represent the highs for the test set.

Here is the STP horsepower curve overlay for the three sets
KrzySRT's


Mosie's RT


Kaps' SRT



Here is the STP torque curve overlay for the three sets
KrzySRT's


Mosie's RT


Kaps' SRT



Here is the Air/Fuel overlay for the three sets
KrzySRT's


Mosie's RT


Kaps' SRT


Raw Data
Click here to download the raw data (94 dyno files)
Click here to download the Superflow DataViewer software installer
Click here to download the Superflow DataViewer software manual

[CoolVanilla]

The AE Carbon drama explained. Where I went wrong, and how it rolled down hill from there.
You'll notice that the results found for the AE Carbon unit are grayed out in our spreadsheets. This is not a mistake in formatting; unfortunately the bottom line on this intake is that it was clearly a prototype unit, not anything close to resembling a production ready intake as we required.

So how is it then that it was at the event, much less ran 11 times across 3 cars and two days? How was it allowed to be tried in three different configurations? Why did AE Carbon get to show when guys like lxlinemoney and his R-Value intake were dropped? The answer is very simple: I didn't stick to my guns.

Let me be really clear about this. Because I didn't enforce my "get your intake into my hands by xxx or have it dropped" rule, I allowed the MFO to get caught into a slippery slope situation, the result of which was lost dyno time and more importantly the loss of other intakes that might have been more ready than the AE Carbon. But I'm getting ahead of things...

When the plans for this event first were made public, I clearly stated that I needed to have all hardware in my hands by xxx date. If the hardware was not in my hands by that date (or at least a tracking number), that missing intake would be dropped, period. The purpose behind this is two fold: it avoids any last minute missing parts (TrueFlow or C&L, anyone?)/shipping mixups/and just general garbage that usually accompanies last minute stuffs. The second purpose is to get these parts into my hands for a sort of preapproval. If I look at your parts and find them to be not production ready, I have time to get with you and ask basically, "WTF?".

As the deadline approached, a few companies literally busted their butts in order to meet it. Expedited shipping charges, finishing touches, etc etc. About two weeks before, one manufacturer contacted me and informed me there was no way they'd be ready. So rather than send me something late or incomplete, they chose to pull their entry out and therefore respect our event and my rules. I thanked them very much and we left things amicably.

At this same time, Junior and AE Carbon contact me saying something to the effect of "well gee Junior's right here [he lives locally to AE Carbon], and he's coming to the event so why doesn't he just bring it up?" Knowing Junior and knowing that when he says something, its as good as done, I said ok. What I did NOT do was explain to Mike how important it was to get the parts by our deadline anyway, for all the reasons I've already explained. I flat dropped the ball on that and put it out of my mind.

That, right there, was the mistake. It was mine alone, and not in any way Junior's. Had I expressed all this properly to Junior, I have no doubt that he'd have taken my instructions to heart and we probably would not have had an AE Carbon unit at the test.

Now here is snowball progression from there: AE Carbon delivers the unit to Junior literally one hour before he leaves for the MFO, over two weeks past my deadline. Junior brings it with him and I'm so busy doing everything else, my first look at the unit is when Junior pulls me over to the car (its installed) to show me how the lid doesn't fit right. Not only that, but there's a piece we can't install without tearing apart the entire front end of the car; something I'm unwilling to do given the time constraints. I make the snap decision to not install the other piece, and to sandwich the lid down onto the box via the hood of the car. My thinking there was that since it was the design and all the parts were in place, we didn't have to worry about road safety and we were not affecting the units design in any way by sealing it as designed, if not as implemented. We make the runs and move on.

Some time later in our testing, someone brings my attention to the chat and to AE Carbon's insistence that piece I chose not to install MUST be installed in order for the thing to work right. I have AEC get with our install team and in a few minutes they work out a way to install it without tearing things apart, however it will be wedged in there in a non-road-worthy way, again emphasizing the prototype-ness of it. We make the pulls and finish the day.

Fast forward to Friday. We're to the AE Carbon portion of the test on the 5.7 Magnum. My installers bring me over and show me how there's zero way this unit will work on a Magnum. It flat wont fit. I have them pull it off and we move on. Now via chat, I'm told, AE Carbon makes it clear it was never designed for a Magnum. This is news to me. They also go on to ask that we test their "Stage 1" unit. Uhh stage what? Turns out AE plans to sell this unit in two flavors; a "Stage 1" kit which includes the tube and filter only. The "Stage 2" kit we (apparently) tested the previous evening includes the addition of a box and that other piece we wedged in there. Thru gritted teeth, I agree to test their Stage 1 kit. This is precisely why the MFO does not get involved in R&D. Its not what the contributors donated for. However we have the parts and the time and we're promised what we're about to test is exactly what they plan to sell so off we go. We make the pulls and move on. The RT comes off the rollers and the SRT goes on.

At some point before the AE (now "Stage 1") is to go on the SRT, my attention is yet again drawn to the chat. In fact I end up getting on the phone with the design engineer of the intake, and he assures me what we tested this morning will never be sold. The Stage 1 kit I thought I was testing in reality should have been the tube and a 10" filter, not the included smaller filter (the one supplied with the stage 2). And not only that, but we happen to have one of those 10" filters at the MFO (MAGFX has one on his car, just cleaned and all fresh). I'm assured that a true "Stage 1" kit will include the exact tube I have and the exact filter MAGFX has. With that assurance, I give the go ahead to test on the SRT.

Next thing I know, my installers tug me over and show me that there is zero zip and zilch way this tube and this 10" filter are going to work. They flat will not fit in the space. Its painfully obvious at this point that this combo has never been test fit before, and I tell them to get it off the car and move forward with the next intake.

All is well... for about an hour. Yet again I'm brought to the chat window. I'm told in no uncertain terms that a new business deal has been struck with AE Carbon and wheelife, Airflow Innovations, supplier of the Aria. wheelife is now the sole supplier of filters to AE Carbon, and the filter that will be shipped with the AE Carbon "Stage 1" kit is the very same filter on the Aria, sitting on the table right over there.

Now there's some back and forth at this point that crosses over into the TrueFlow drama that I'll explain later. But the bottom line is that I gave the choice to PPP and AE Carbon; we would use the elbow from the Billet Tech kit to make the TrueFlow unit work, and the Aria filter to make the AE Carbon unit work. If both companies agreed to this, the MFO would test both intakes. If one did not agree, neither would be tested. Of course, both agreed and as such, both intakes were tested.

After all the dust had settled, and the MFO team went to dinner and talked about all this, I decided that the only fair thing to do to all companies involved at this point (all those that respected my rules in the first place) was to not make any "official" MFO result for either of these two intakes. Instead, I've listed the numbers for them, and I plan to make a review of each and what I saw, but I will not be giving either the full MFO treatment in terms of results. What you see above is all I plan to do.

In the future, I've learned that I must stick to my guns. I had the right idea in forcing everyone to get their stuff to me early, but I didn't carry it thru. As a result, we ended up with a ton of useless drama, an incomplete test and I'm sure some pissed off vendors. I'm not willing to let that happen again. I sincerely apologize to everyone and I hope my lack of judgment won't detract from the integrity of the MFO. To many people worked too damn hard to have something like this ruin it for all.

[CoolVanilla]

Open for discussion. I've still got a ton of work to do. I'll be filling in the outline I started above as I can. Any and all questions comments and thoughts are welcome.

[DMAG]

Thank you to all those who worked hard to once again bring the MFO to the entire community of LX owners. Thanks especially to Jason for his continued work in getting these events together.

A big thanks to the vendors who supplied their units for testing and those who volunteered their cars to test these units out on.

Finally thank you to the MFO team for once again using LXForums as your platform to communicate with the LX community!

[dumpster]

thanks everybody that did this... not what i had expected but good to know

[BritishNate]

Thank you to all who particpated and made the MFO possible, also thanks to all the companies that supplied the intakes for testing and all the LX people who lent their cars for the testing.

[Hemi31]

Very cool so far Jason.Looks like victories were claimed that didn't exist.

[imahemi]

thanks all!!!!

look forward to the rest of the info...

[done]

Heat tests?

[CoolVanilla]

Charts are up.

Done I need to get with Mosie and put our heads together on what we came up with. Temps were down in the 40deg range, and from what I saw no matter what we did we never saw IATs over 65. More on that later though when Mosie and I have talked.

[Jerseyboy]

I see you tracked ECT and Oil Temp during the dyno runs, did anyone track IATs? What about actual spark cyl1 and knock retard? It might have been beneficial to remove IAT and ECT retard and disable the knock sensors. It's a good way to limit test to test variation. Each gain or loss would have been directly related to the intakes themselves, not some other condition. With some tests hsowing an 8-10hp swing from test to test, I'm sure there was more going on in the background (knock retard?) then we think. Waiting on the results of the street and track testing.

J

[USCG Charger]

Sweet man... thx for all the hard work.

[CoolVanilla]

I see you tracked ECT and Oil Temp during the dyno runs, did anyone track IATs?

It not that we tracked these values, its that we used them in order to make each start condition consistant for each test within each vehicle. Consistancy was the target here. And by ensuring oil and ect temps were as similar as we could, we achived that consistancy I think.

As for IATs... we didn't specifically track that, no. It would have required significantly more equipment and effort and in my opinion, neither were worth it. And here's why...

We tested these things in rapid succession, on the same day, in the same shop, in the same enviornment, and maybe most importantly in 45degree weather. In other words, the same air was avaiable for all intakes throught the test set. So the tracking of IATs, while nice to have, wasn't warranted in my judgement.

What about actual spark cyl1 and knock retard? It might have been beneficial to remove IAT and ECT retard and disable the knock sensors. It's a good way to limit test to test variation. Each gain or loss would have been directly related to the intakes themselves, not some other condition. Waiting on the results of the street and track testing.

J

You're describing a very different test than we designed and executed. You might want to read the MFO Q&A to understand our goal and how we achive that goal.

The track was fogged out so we didnt get to run. And the street testing (heat) might not be worth anything. Again I need to compare notes with a few others before saying that for sure though.

[PaCharger]

To all of you that took the time to help run another great round of tests - KUDOS for all of your hard work and a big Thanks for helping make this place a better place. These days - thats a bigger accomplishment than the thread by thread whining we seem to have delved into.

Great work, great vidstream, commentating, etc....wish I could have been there!

Doug

[1FST4DR]

To all of you that took the time to help run another great round of tests - KUDOS for all of your hard work and a big Thanks for helping make this place a better place. These days - thats a bigger accomplishment than the thread by thread whining we seem to have delved into.

Great work, great vidstream, commentating, etc....wish I could have been there!

Doug

I couldn't have said better myself..Well done everyone..