3.5 High output owners... is the predator worth it?

[Samoan Tsunami]

alright, I'm not going to do this data logging crap or whatever, I'm just gonna go straight up and run the proper octane for the canned tune.

Will I be okay if I ran any canned tune with the proper octane and added aces IV in it? for example, 93 tune with 93 octane with aces 4 added in it? Will i be getting the most performance and best efficiency like this?

without datalogging, you are asking people who have never seen your car, driven your car, or worked on your car to give you an answer, which is virtually impossible to do.

i can say this though, when i ran the 93 tune WITH Aces IV, i still had ST and LT KR (knock retard) which means i probably needed a bit more octane. LT was around 1.0-1.5 and sometimes ST jumped to 4.5

on this i would definately agree with Jonny, and FTR i use the top tier gas (BP, Exxon, Shell) and also use less noticed brands (CF, Hess, Sunoco)...funny thing is i have pics of some fill up trucks at multiple stations, like a CF truck at Sunoco then the BP across the street...

running a 93 tune and 93 gas with aces IV and STILL getting KR, to me is pointless. your running advanced timing, but the computer is just cutting back full potential. running a 91 tune on 93 and aces may be the better bet and less chance of KR. but without logging, you will never know. even if you DONT log, atleast monitor it every couple of trips... you can setup the tuners to monitor live data. the trinity, you just put it on a guage.

running a higher octane tune and having the computer cut back on timing is like squatting 405, but you can only do 315, so your spotter has to lift the extra 90lbs of every rep. sure it may look impressive, but you're not really getting the full weight, gains, and power of the rep. in tuning terms, you get to say you run a 93 tune, but the computer is really cutting it back to something akin of a 91 tune...

It was certainly like flipping a switch for me...but only at the gas pump.

The Predator makes the engine louder, and makes the transmission shift very clunky.

Waste of money for me. As much as I wanted to notice a difference, it was placebo only. Sold the unit at a loss, hopefully somebody else can get some enjoyment out of it.

Lets be fair here so false things arent said to scare others who will actually note the benefits of a tuner..... if i remember right, you have a 4 speed, and the diablosport does nothing for the 4 speed transmission. so please explain how a tuner would make your shifts clunky, when it doesnt have the ability to on the 4 speed transmission? that kinda puts an aftermarket dent in your criticism credibility...


another thing suspect on your diablo sport useage and criticism, you had shifting issues/lagging power even before you got a diablosport tuner: Struggling Acceleration - 3.5 v6

in that very same thread you posted a link and said this is exactly what happens to your car Post #8: Struggling Acceleration - 3.5 v6 and within that link one of the problems was listed as:

i notice a thud in the rear end when the change happens . dealer was no help . is this the torque converter kicking in or something else

sorry, but the predator has been proven to give power increases and driveability improvements over stock. its not placebo. i honestly think your were expecting a bit WAY too much from just a tune on a relatively stock car in addition to blaming your cars inherent problem on a tuner. some overhype the tuners ability and make it seem like it turns a 3.5 into a 5.7L but it doesnt. but it will have the car to perform like it just took an energy drink or preworkout supplement like Jack3d or Superpump250

[jonny]

On my 3.5l, I ran the 93CAI tune with 93 octane, 10% ethanol gas and had normal, acceptable levels of ST knock.

It all depends on your car and local fuel.

[gunracer]

just remember one thing, for every degree of timing the sensors pull is about 1-3 HP loss as long as its pulling it. By retarding the timing you stop that from happening.

[hskr]

just remember one thing, for every degree of timing the sensors pull is about 1-3 HP loss as long as its pulling it. By retarding the timing you stop that from happening.

What are you trying to say here? By using the diablo tune to retard the timing you don't get the 1-3hp loss that happens when the PCM retards the timing when it senses knock? Because that makes absolutely zero sense.

[gunracer]

From from I've gathered from listening to tuners, tuning the timing to be. Where you want it puts the power in check, but letting the knock sensors do it for you will slow you down. Picture yourself running with a sled of weights behind you. If you get the weight just right and your properly fueled and given enough air then you could run all day. But have someone throw more weight on it all of a sudden it will make you slow down( retard your speed). Does it make since now.

[hskr]

From from I've gathered from listening to tuners, tuning the timing to be. Where you want it puts the power in check, but letting the knock sensors do it for you will slow you down. Picture yourself running with a sled of weights behind you. If you get the weight just right and your properly fueled and given enough air then you could run all day. But have someone throw more weight on it all of a sudden it will make you slow down( retard your speed). Does it make since now.

No, because if you are using timing adjustments to prevent the sensors picking up knock, then you will be pulling timing in the tune in the exact same place, if not sooner, than when the sensors detect it and the PCM pulls the timing. So you will end up with the same net result of timing being pulled and probably even more hp loss because to prevent knock, you will need to pull timing sooner and more of it then what the PCM will as it starts to sense it. What it does help with is keeping your motor healthy because the PCM doesn't retard timing until after knock is detected. And any pre-detonation(knock) isn't good for the motor. Now if you choose to add fuel to try and prevent knock you may get a different result with added hp.

Pulling timing, is pulling timing and will cause the same result whether you let the PCM do it, or use a tune to do it.

[gunracer]

True, then instead of tuning out the knock the every tank just add some expensive octane booster and call it a day. But the only octane booster I have found results with that you buy at autozone is Lucas and it's 10 a bottle. The other cheaper ones never did work

[hskr]

You'd have to add a lot of octane booster bought from a parts store in order to make enough of a difference to counter act pre-detonation from lack of octane. More than just one or two bottles per tank.

[Samoan Tsunami]

You'd have to add a lot of octane booster bought from a parts store in order to make enough of a difference to counter act pre-detonation from lack of octane. More than just one or two bottles per tank.

thats true, but there was a test done and the NOS brand seemed to actually DO something. theres also a few more out there that accomplish what its set to do. Heres one test with it vs toulene

0503Ec Techboost Chart2 Photo 12

had a similar gain of 2 octane gain in 91 shell gas, similar to adding 20% of toulene.

also found an older test that was done with a few more options for anyone wanting options...

Entire test results...

Typed Version of the Article:
Octane boostersare popular in the performance scene because they often regain power last through detonation. Sold for around $25 in a handy bottle, they’re a convenient fuel additive and horsepower helper. But with so much brands on the market, you may be fooled into thinking they’re all as effective as each other. Which they’re not! Differing chemical compounds, additives and even volumes, mixed in with a good percentage of advertising, ‘independent" testing and testimonials all conspire to confuse the consumer away from the single most important paint: does it improve the octane rating?
Let’s see what’s worth it in octane boosters.
DO I NEED AN OCTANE BOOSTER?
The boys at "The Macquarie Library" describe detonation as: "Excessively rapid burning of the fuel mixture, often caused by auto-ignition due to excessive temperatures in the combustion chamber, incorrect ignition timing, lean mixtures, too high a compression ratio or unsuitable fuel," – as in too-low an octane rating.
Heard as a faint, metallic rattle, detonation is accompanied by a loss of power and can cause serious damage to piston crowns.
The significance of detonation is such that many companies produce fuel additives designed to increase the inherent octane rating of a given fuel. The proliferation of octane boosters has in part come about in recent times thanks to low quality Australian fuels. White or "Super" leaded fuel has been reduced from 98 to 95-96 octane, Premium Unleaded has alsodropped to a minimum of 95 octane. And this presents a problem for high-performance cars designed to run on higher octane European or 100 octane Japanese fuel. Japanese import performance cars, Subaru’s STI WRX for example, runs an ECU program for 100 octane, but sometimes detonates on our Australian PULP.
All engines are different though and with Honda’s S2000 2.0-litre engine running a high 11.0:1 compression ratio, it relies on advanced engine management as much as quality fuel. But it can sustain its power on PULP. And of course any turbo owner who has experimented with boost will know if you run too much, itwill detonate, so improving the octane is vital for maximum performance.
We must state that unless an engine is detonation through low RON fuel, octane boosters have little use. However, in a turbo or high compression application, the inclusion of a better grade of fuel allows the engine management system to optimize ignition timing and fueling.

THE CONTESTANTS

For this test we tracked down nine different makes and models of octane boosters, two fuel "additive," a straight race fuel and a drum of Toluene. Where there were several different "levels" of octane boosters in the one brand, we chose the strongest version.
The biggest claims the bottles have is the amount of "points" they claim to increase. This is ambiguous as a "point" can relate to either 1.0 RON (Research Octane Number) octane points, or 0.1RON octane points.



The list of entrants in our octane Olympics included:
-STP Octane Booster
-Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster,
-Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost,
-Super 104+ Octane Booster,
-VP C5 Fuel Additive,
-ELF HTX 330 Racing Fuel Stabilizer,
-Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster,
-PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based,
-PowerFuel Max Race Nitro Based,
-NF Octane Booster Racing Formula,
-NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula,
-Toluene,
-VP Motorsport 103 Unleaded Racing Fuel

THE TEST

To conduct these tests we contracted independent laboratory Intertek Testing Services, who would test our products on a knock engine.
We had to also find a base fuel to add our boosters to so we went to the closest public petrol station, a Shell on the outward-bound side of the Westgate Bridge in Melbourne.
Being a performance-based test, we chose premium unleaded fuel as this represents the most common high performance fuel (ie: if you start with regular unleaded, you’re wasting money!). We should add that "some" boosters would have improved the octane rating of regular unleaded proportionately more than our tests with PULP.
With a RON rating at a minimum of 95, we first established the exact octane of the PULP. The biggest surprise was our randomly select Shell resulted in a quite high 96-8 RON.
We precisely measured and mixed each additive to the PULP, according to each manufacturer’s recommendations and specs and poured each into the knock engine’s tank. The compression ratio was then slowly increased until it started to knock, gaining athreshold of detonation and subsequently a maximum RON rating.
Of less importance but still worth mentioning is the design of the bottles: since most people will be pouring it straight into a tank, the design of a bottle is important to prevent any spillage on paintwork causing damage.
So let’s look at the results!

THE RESULTS
BASELINE OCTANE 96.8

Octane points

It’s very easy to confuse octane ratings as there are a number of separate international standards. MON (Motor Octane Number) is the number derived from a fuel when it’s applied to a test engine run at 3000rpm rather than 600rpm and higher inlet temps and ignition advance. The Australian importer of 104+, Andrew Holdsworth, suggested MON is seen as a more real-world test.
Though none of the fuel companies promote the MON figure which is normally between 7 and 10 numbers less than RON (Research Octane Number).
Intertek’s Graeme Marks believes RON provides the general public with an idea of which additive works more effectively. And being the most commonly-used reference, we’ve used RON for all our tests.
11th
PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based
946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $35
Right from the start, we were told PowerFuel’s additives weren’t necessarily octane boosters, but horsepower helpers. We kept this in mind when testing both the products, but of the two only the Super Street claimed it was specifically designed to increase the octane rating of PULP. With a 20-percent nitro mix, Super Street Nitro-Based still improved octane ever so slightly (0.2RON) but the real test for these two would come on the dyno runs.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
10th
PowerFuel MaxRace Nitro Based
946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $45
Containing another 15 percent more nitromethane than the SuperStreet formula, MaxRace doesn’t claim to increase octane, but the verbal recommendation was the same, ie: its main characteristic is to boost horsepower, not octane. For a fair comparison of these two additives, you need to look at the power they produce. As for octane, it proved very similar toe the SuperStreet formula bumping up octane ever so slightly.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
9th
STP Octane Booster
350ml treats 57 litres RRP: $10.95
One of the cheapest of the group, the STP was also one of the hardest to find. Auto stores either didn’t stock it, or had simply run out! Claiming to increase the octane 2-5 points, in a well-designed-for-pouring bottle, the STP – used in the ratio determined by the label - improved the octane marginally by just over half a point. A little disappointing unless you interpret STP’s claim actually meant 0.2-0.5 points. Then it’s a good result!
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.4 (+0.6 RON)
8th
Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster
325ml treats 60 litres RRP: $10
The Wynns was the cheapest of the lot and claimed an increase between two and five points, again not actually listing what a "point" related to. Strangely though the 10+ could indicate 1RON and if this is the case going by our tests it almost lived up to its name. It didn’t quite live up to its claims however, increasing the octane rating by 0.8RON.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.6 (+0.8 RON)
7th
Super 104+ Octane Boost
473ml treats 83 litres RRP: $25.95
The acknowledged winner of all previous testing in this country, Super 104+’s bottle stated we should expect an increase between four and seven point. With a new formula introduced about 12 months ago, identified by an "Eagle" logo on the back of the bottle, the Super 104+ seems to have lost its edge with a marginal gain of just less than 1.0RON.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.5 (+0.9 RON)
6th
VP Racing C5
355ml treats 75 litres RRP: $19.95
VP has a strong reputation with fuels and its high octane formulas are very popular (VP?) with drag racers. VP Racing’s C5 Fuel Additive lacked any indication of contents nor claims, but the C5 additive still provided a reasonable increase of 1.3RON.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.1 (+1.3 RON)
5th
NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula
355ml treats 60 litres RRP: $28
NOS, a relatively new octane booster, comes in "1/10th" scale bottles designed to emulate the actual nitrous bottles of its successful NOS systems. The Racing Formula is the strongest of three concentrates and containing Hydrotreated Aliphatics and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (try saying that 10 times in a row), it contains a lead replacement which NOS claims increases the octane rating by as much as seven points. Obviously not recommended for street use, it also included with a handy pouring spout. In testing, it proved a good result improving the octane rating by almost 2RON.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON) as much as 7 points
4th
ELF 330 Fuel Stabilizer
1000ml treats 50 litres RRP: $45
"If you spill it on your paintwork, don’t rub it off – rinse it with water" were our works of warning. We were also told to "pre-mix" the ELF before adding it in a fuel tank (which with this test we were doing anyway) as the ELF has a tendency to settle to the bottom of fuel if it’s either not mixed properly or left to sit. This was made somewhat more difficult by the design of the bottle, which tends to drip when pouring. With some nasty stuff known as Aniline, the ELF doesn’t claim any numbers, and provided a decent 1.8 RON point improvement.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)
3rd
Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost
354ml treats 57 litres RRP: $23
Recommended for off-road and racing use, the Amsoil Series 2000 claimed to increase the octane rating by up to seven points. It came up a little short, but still proved surprisingly good with a full 2.0RON improvement. And good enough for the bronze medal in our Octane Booster Olympics.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.8 (+2.0 RON)
2nd
Toluene (Toluol)
20 litres treats 100 litres RRP: $48
Since toluene (pronounced toll-you-een – also known as methyl benzine) isn’t a commercially advertised octane booster. We were unsure of exactly what ratio to mix the clear Toluene to the fuel, with recommendations between 10 and 30 percent. From personal experience, we have seen high percentages increase octane even further, though 30 percent is considered the maximum. Available only from various fuel distributors (it is a special order through services stations), under advice we ran a 20 percent mix (quite a lot more than the others) and saw an impressive improvement of 2.5 RON, for the silver medal.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.3 (+2.5 RON)
1st
NF Octane Booster Racing Formula
250 ml treats 80 litres RRP: $29.95
Time for an Aussie-made product. From Perth, the NF Octane Booster Racing Formula was the smallest bottle in the field, but looking at the mixing ratio, also the strongest NF relies on an incredibly small dose – a mere 3 percent! Claiming to increase octane as much as 6.0 RON, NF took the gold medal in a surprising tie. If it were a split decision based on concentration though, it would be the clear winner.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
1st
Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster
500 ml treats 60 litres RRP: $20.95
Note: Also available in four-litre container for $110
The Australian-made Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster is the top of the range Nulon fuel product, claiming to boost octane "up to seven number". The Pro Strength gained a test-winning, gold-medal-gaining and Nf-equalling 2.8RON increase. And at $21, it’s good value too!
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
VP Motorsport 103 fuel
Used straight fuel (20-litre minimum) RRP: $70
Purely for interest, we decided to also test a straight racing fuel. While there are a number available (such as ELF) for no particular reason we chose VP. The highest octane VP fuel which was still totally street-legal was the Motorsport 103. Working out at $3.50 per litre and "designed for maximum power and throttle response", the VP was very impressive with an octane rating of 107RON – more than 10RON points more than PULP. Obviously more expensive than the boosters, if octane is problem, racing fuel like VP may be the answer.
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 107 (+10.2RON)
As the name suggests, a knock engine is designed to test the detonation or anti-knock rating of fuels and fuel additives. It’s a slow revving engine capable of running most fossil fuels through an adjustable compression ratio. As the comp ratio increases, it accurately measures the intensity of the knock and determines the fuel’s octane rating.
The world standard is a one-cylinder two-valve four-stroke engine with exposed valve gear. Archaic in appearance, a carby is fed from any one of three fuel bowls to allow three different fuels to be run back to back. The mixture is actually controlled via gravity feed and by raising or lowering the float level of each bowl!
Run under load via a belt-drive linking the flywheel and load system, it ensures a real world situation and ensuring minimal variation between tests, oil temperature, intake air density and air temperature are all monitored and controlled.
The engine is somewhat agricultural, however its unique ability to vary the compression ratio while running between 5.0:1 and 15.0:1 is quite amazing. The operator simply winds a handle and the entire head and cylinder assembly moves up and down relative to the crankshaft.
A knock sensor measures both the frequency and intensity of the ping (as displayed on a knock metre). Figures are then cross-referenced on a chart using the information provided by the knock meter, plus the height of the head and barrel.
Finally, knock intensity is figured in and the fuel’s octane rating determined.
Taking two hours to warm, this $200,000 engine is super robust and rarely needs rebuilding. Individual tests can then proceed at approximately $120 per test sample.
Being subjected to so much detonation, you can only imagine how much maintenance an engine of this nature must need. Interestingly, this isn’t the case as the piston and rod assembly are rejects from a monstrous ship engine (just kidding)! They’re frigging huge with the incredibly thick piston crown contributing to a combined gudgeon pin and piston weight of 1794 grams! Likewise, the rod weighs an astonishing 1929 grams. The bottom line is these engines which have replacement value of over $200,000 and almost never require rebuilding.

DYNO BOOSTERS

Ultimately, the role of an octane booster, is to regain horsepower lost through detonation or retarded ignition timing due to detonation. But two of our products, the nitro additives, weren’t specifically designed to increase octane. Instead, they contain a mix of nitromethane (the petrol Top Fuellers run) in a "percentage" concentrate. Power Fuel’s Super Street and Max Race additives has 20-percent and 35-percent nitro respectively, and the Australian importer specifically claimed they would increase power, not necessarily octane.
So, we took those two products, and the two best-performing octane boosters to MRT Performance for some Dyno Dynamics dyno testing. Interestingly, we were going to use MRT’s rally Civic, which normally runs on avgas. On PULP – even with the booster – it was pinging too much, so a Jap-spec EF Honda Civic was used with a 1.6-litre VTEC and about 10.0:1 comp ratio.
The graphs tell the story though, and to be fair to the products, with variables such as heat soak, the results weren’t as conclusive as could be gained from an engine dyno. But that is not to say the products don’t work. As our test prove, they do, but it’s not as easily measured on a chassis dyno. Plus the Civic had no detonation problems on PULP, further hampering the "apparent" effectiveness of the boosters.
With changes too small to accurately measure, we would suggest if your engine is sensitive to octane, a booster is for you. If not, try the nitro or racing fuels.

CONCLUSION

Both the Nulon Pro Strength and the NF Racing Formula rated the best octane boosters in our test. And considering that less NF was needed than Nulon, it evens out a little with a slightly higher cost. Still, both proved extremely effective at increasing octane, even outranking Toluene, which needs much higher levels of concentration. The VP Motorsport 103 fuel was an interesting exercise, and if a little more effort (ie: buying it from the selected outlets) is worth the octane, it’s a good representative of what to expect from straight racing fuel. As for the nitro additives, if you’re not experiencing any type of detonation, they’re definitely worth a try. So whether you detonate or not, we’ve found a fuel additive for you!
Material courtesy of Fast Fours Magazine Nov/Dec 1999.

[hskr]

Unfortunately, all those products are mostly sold in Australia. Other than Amsoil, STP, and NOS, I've never heard of any of them(I'm taliking the octane boosters). Toluene seems to be easier to get here in the states though as it can be found at most stores that sell painting supplies. And if additives are anything like most products, the stuff distributed overseas uses a different formula that what you get stateside. Possibly why the Australian test only shows a 1.8 RON increase with the NOS racing formula but the other one had almost a 3.0 increase in RON. Either way MMT isn't good for street driven vehicles with catalytic converters and if used frequently will kill your O2 sensors and cats.

[Bulkybear]

Ok. I'm a noon to all this timing stuff. So are u guys saying that I run a 91 octane tune and 91 octane gas that I will get knocking? And that the pcm will pull back timing to compensate thereby loosing any hp gains I was supposed to get. If that's the case ill stick to the stock tune. My 3.5 is bone stock btw.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[jonny]

Ok. I'm a noon to all this timing stuff. So are u guys saying that I run a 91 octane tune and 91 octane gas that I will get knocking? And that the pcm will pull back timing to compensate thereby loosing any hp gains I was supposed to get. If that's the case ill stick to the stock tune. My 3.5 is bone stock btw.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Not necessarily, it depends on your car and the gas you get.

The only way to know is do some datalogging with the Predator, preferably with it hooked to a laptop.

[hskr]

You don't get much hp gain from the canned tune in the predator. Most of the "gains" are in overall driveability and throttle response and just how the car reacts. You should be just fine running 91 oct on the 91 tune. If you don't like that because you are worried about it pulling timing, then run the 89 tune with 91 oct and just not get the same performance.

[torred 3.5]

This might be a dumb question, but does the predator slowly kill our engines over time compared to the stock tune? or is it totally safe and effective to get a bit more performance out of our engine?

[SilverSteel300]

Lets be fair here so false things arent said to scare others who will actually note the benefits of a tuner..... if i remember right, you have a 4 speed, and the diablosport does nothing for the 4 speed transmission. so please explain how a tuner would make your shifts clunky, when it doesnt have the ability to on the 4 speed transmission? that kinda puts an aftermarket dent in your criticism credibility...


another thing suspect on your diablo sport useage and criticism, you had shifting issues/lagging power even before you got a diablosport tuner: Struggling Acceleration - 3.5 v6

in that very same thread you posted a link and said this is exactly what happens to your car Post #8: Struggling Acceleration - 3.5 v6 and within that link one of the problems was listed as:




sorry, but the predator has been proven to give power increases and driveability improvements over stock. its not placebo. i honestly think your were expecting a bit WAY too much from just a tune on a relatively stock car in addition to blaming your cars inherent problem on a tuner. some overhype the tuners ability and make it seem like it turns a 3.5 into a 5.7L but it doesnt. but it will have the car to perform like it just took an energy drink or preworkout supplement like Jack3d or Superpump250

The Predator does nothing for the 4 speed TCM. It does, however, reduce torque management through the ECM. How do I know this? With the Predator 91 octane tune loaded, the car literally "jolted" at wide open throttle upshifts. It was very noticeable to me and my passengers. With the stock tune loaded at wide open throttle, it gives a smooth shift.

Now as far as the other inherent problem I was describing, it is actually the way the 4 speed TCM is programmed. The torque converter clutch hampers acceleration. This is not a problem specifically with my car, but rather with all 4 speed LX vehicles. I posted an extensive thread on this issue not long ago.

So basically I bought the Predator hoping it would increase performance - but that is not the case. Sure it made the engine louder and made my wide open throttle upshifts harsh, but there was no performance increase to be had. I'm not gonna pay extra for high octane fuel just so that my car shifts sloppy and my engine runs loud.

Results? Stock tune restored, and Predator sold. I'm not gonna lie to people on here and say that I was happy with it when I clearly wasn't. Sure, some people are happy with their Predator on the v6, both 4 and 5 speed owners alike, but I am not one of them. The question the OP is asking is whether or not the Predator is worth it; I don't feel that it is. Therefore I have given my account of my experience with the Predator.