Questions regarding the Pirelli Scorpion Ice&Snow

**dbblackdiamond** · 10-31-2006, 04:20 PM

Hi,

I bought a set of Pirelli Scorpion Ice&Snow for Maggie for the winter months. I have been running them for the last couple of weeks and really liked the way they handled in dry conditions. I would say that they are better than the Contis.

Last weekend, we had the first snow of the season. To make matters a bit worse, the ground was still warm when it started snowing, so the snow melted and turned into ice later, then got covered in snow. I thought "Awesome" I'll get a feel for how the Ice&Snow handle in the real stuff and boy was I surprised: I was slidding all over the place!!!! Everytime I touched the brake pedal, the ABS would come on. At every intersection, if I was turning left or right, the ESP would come on.
I know the conditions were pretty slick, but I have used H-rated winter tires on all of my previous cars in some pretty dire conditions and none of them had that slippery feel to them.
That got me thinking that maybe there are several version of the Ice&Snow as folks on this forum seem to like them. The ones I have are the 235/60 18 107H XL N0. For those who are happy with their Ice&Snow, do you have the same ones?

If so, what is your experience?

Thanks a lot in advance.

**Jaak** · 10-31-2006, 06:04 PM

I have them in 20's and I find them decent on ice, but lousy on snow. But it could just be watching the AWD's eat me alive that is the problem.

The tires look to be a compromise, not an agressive snow tire, but in Toronto, you can usually get away with all season radials, so I'd actually classify them as good all seasons, not great snow tires.

But they smoke pretty good...

**UnderTaker** · 10-31-2006, 06:07 PM

i have them too, they are (ok) i'm sure if i had the AWD i would like them alot more... i'm going to put them on this weekend i think.

**dbblackdiamond** · 10-31-2006, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by jaak

I have them in 20's and I find them decent on ice, but lousy on snow. But it could just be watching the AWD's eat me alive that is the problem.

The tires look to be a compromise, not an agressive snow tire, but in Toronto, you can usually get away with all season radials, so I'd actually classify them as good all seasons, not great snow tires.

But they smoke pretty good...

Well, if I decide to change them, then I will use them as my summer tire as the Contis are pretty bold, so I might try a few burnouts with them.

**dbblackdiamond** · 10-31-2006, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by UnderTaker

i have them too, they are (ok) i'm sure if i had the AWD i would like them alot more... i'm going to put them on this weekend i think.

Well,when I look at how they did last weekend, I am not sure AWD would have done anything more. To get going required very gentle application of the throttle, but where I was disappointed was in the cornering ability of the tires and AWD would do nothing for you there.

**formerice** · 11-01-2006, 09:58 AM

I put 100 lbs sand bags in the back and mine did ok but wore out pretty quickly. I'm going to try something different this winter, heck maybe the BFG KDWS's. If it gets bad' I'll just drive my Ram.

**dbblackdiamond** · 11-26-2006, 08:06 PM

Hi,

just a quick update. After giving the Scorpions a chance, I decided that I didn't feel comfortable with them, especially considering that the car will have to be driven through mountain passes on a regular basis, so I phoned a tire shop and they advised me to put the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 on the car. I searched the net trying to find reviews on them, to make sure that this time they would do the job. I couldn't find much, so I phoned another tire shop and asked the same question and they told me again about the LM-25. I decided to take the plunge and to get them installed. Luckily for me, we had some good snow here and it has been snowing since I got them installed. As soon as I started the car on the snow covered parking lot, I could feel the difference. I got all the way home without the ABS or the ESP coming on. I had found what I was looking for: traction and grip!!!!

It has been snowing for the last 2 days here, so all the streets are covered with it. Today I took Maggie out for a spin to get give the tire a good workout and they performed flawlessly: no more ESP or ABS, just traction.
With the help of the ESP and the ABs, Maggie is a joy to drive on snow. Of course, one needs to be delicate with the throttle when starting as the amount of torque available makes it easy to break the tire, but other than that, the LM-25 are the $h*t for me.

I am sure the Scorpions are nice in other type of winter, but not for the stuff we get in Calgary.

**Jaak** · 11-26-2006, 08:39 PM

Good to know they do indeed lack in ability. Kind of suspected that.

So what else fits 20's?

**Token** · 11-26-2006, 09:02 PM

Glad you found a tire that works well for you

So ...... are you selling off the Scorpions then? Toronto isn't nearly as bad as Calgary.

**Jaak** · 11-26-2006, 09:11 PM

No, I'm still going to use them this winter...

**Token** · 11-27-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by jaak

No, I'm still going to use them this winter...

Not you!!!

**Jaak** · 11-27-2006, 03:31 PM

LOL! What, you figure AWD will make up for lack of traction? Why not just stick with what's on there?

**Token** · 11-27-2006, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by jaak

LOL! What, you figure AWD will make up for lack of traction?

Actually YES! Same tires, same wintery conditions, our 2 cars at a stoplight, GREEN... who's leaving first? And who's more likely to safely navigate the bend in the road up ahead?

Originally Posted by jaak

Why not just stick with what's on there?

What's on there now are the Conti. 4X4 Contact, essentially an all season tire, a rather agressively treaded all-season, but an all-season just the same, with about 20,000km on them. I have my DUB rims for summer use, so I only really need a winter setup, not an all-season. While the Scorpion Ice are obviously not the greatest winter tire, they will likely be better than my current all-season tires.

dbblackdiamond found that for his conditions they do not meet what he was looking for. By the sounds of it, those conditions are far worse than we typically experience in Toronto.

He was going to use them as summer tires, but they won't last very long at all in summer, the rubber compound is way too soft for that.

So I just thought, rather than him spending twice for winter tires, only to end up with a set that won't even get him through the summer, he could recoup. some of his losses, sell the Scorpions to me, which SHOULD be adequate for our winter, use that money towards a set of tires of his choice for summer.

Sure I'm taking a chance that the Scorpions won't be good enough for the winter here either, and whatever he decides to sell them for would definately be a consideration, but I'm betting they will, at least, be as good as the Conti's. So worst case senerio, I have 2 sets of "marginal" winter tires, where again the AWD should help in making them passable.

**Jaak** · 11-27-2006, 09:51 PM

Well, you've got yourself convinced, what are you waiting for? My opinion of the Scorpions are they're slightly better than all season radials, but not much. I think calling them a snow tire is a bit of a misnomer. Maybe that's why they don't call them Snow & Ice instead.

What's navigating a bend have to do with AWD? AWD only helps you go, not stop or corner!

**Token** · 11-27-2006, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by jaak

My opinion of the Scorpions are they're slightly better than all season radials, but not much. I think calling them a snow tire is a bit of a misnomer.

Well, if they are really that bad, maybe I should consider something else.