Camber Kit? Alignment specs inside...

[Speedy!]

2009 Challenger R/T

I had my alignment checked after doing the Eibach Pro Kit. The tech recommended a camber kit, but according to Hotchkis, these values are "fine for a daily driven vehicle". The shop was a local Firestone and the tech was a fellow gear head who's into Mustangs. The store manager said he'd not fool with camber kits unless the settings are just "way off".

Here's the link to Hotchkis: 09 Challenger FAQ
Note the section on alignment.

Here are the readings from my Challenger today. It was a Hunter alignment machine.

[novawagonmaster]

Hunter makes some nice equipment. We use their tire mounting/balancing equipment, as well as their alignment machine (camera style).

I agree, those specs aren't too bad. Over time, you may get some cupping on the inside edge of the tires. The OEM tires (Goodyear RSA) have a rounded shoulder and will not get torn up too bad. If you are running wider tires, and/or tires that have more of a "square" shoulder, the inside edge wear will be more noticeable and occur sooner.

Having said all of this, your car should now feel like it is on rails

[Speedy!]

Hunter makes some nice equipment. We use their tire mounting/balancing equipment, as well as their alignment machine (camera style).

I agree, those specs aren't too bad. Over time, you may get some cupping on the inside edge of the tires. The OEM tires (Goodyear RSA) have a rounded shoulder and will not get torn up too bad. If you are running wider tires, and/or tires that have more of a "square" shoulder, the inside edge wear will be more noticeable and occur sooner.

Having said all of this, your car should now feel like it is on rails

Tires are:

Front 245/40ZR20 Nitto Invo on Boss 338 8.5" wheels
Rear 295/35ZR20 Nitto Invo on Boss 338 10" wheels

It definitely handles well I just don't want to ruin my new tires.

[novawagonmaster]

Your camber is borderline. It will get worse should the springs settle at all.

It will take a while, but you will eventually notice inside edge wear. My specs came out very close to yours, and I did not correct it yet. I only have 4k miles on it since, so the tires are fine (keep in mind mine are 245's all the way around, too). Since I get my tires at cost, I don't get too worked up over it.

Just keep a close eye on it. If you start to notice inside edge wear, correct the camber.

[Speedy!]

It's odd to me that there are different camber specs for left and right in the front. If the left matched the right specs, I'd be very close.

The Invos have a bizaar tread pattern which may make it difficult to track tire wear. I've got a gauge to check tread depth, but since the tread varies so greatly across the tire, I'm not sure measurements will be applicable.

I only drive my car on weekends, so it probably won't see 5,000 - 6,000 miles a year. It'd probably take a LONG time for me to see tread wear differences.

[novawagonmaster]

Camber specs are often different for left and right. It is done to take things into account such as weight distribution, road crown, etc.

[Speedy!]

Here's what Hotchkis says:

"From our experience tuning suspension systems, vehicles will benefit by running negative camber in the front which allows more tire contact patch during cornering. Owners are sometimes concerned about tire wear when running negative camber. The truth to the matter is, camber (unless excessive -2.5" or greater) plays less a role in tire wear than does toe. Often the cause of uneven tire wear is blamed on camber when the true problem is toe. By properly aligning the vehicle after lowering and setting the toe settings to 1/16 front and 3/16" rear total toe in, tire wear can be minimized.

After installing our 19108 Sport Coils Springs (Front: 1-7/16" Rear: 11/16" Drop) on a 09 RT we were able to achieve the following alignment specs without the use of any aftermarket alignment products.
Front Camber -0.8°
Rear Camber -1°
These camber settings are perfectly acceptable for daily driving and will not adversly affect tire wear. Toe was set to front 1/16” total toe in and the rear 3/16” total toe in. These are the settings you should be using for Toe."

I'm not sure why they give toe specs in inches instead of degrees, but using a little trig to convert, my toe is exactly what they're suggesting.

I know out of all the folks on this site with lowering kits, SOMEONE with some miles on it has to know something about all this?

[novawagonmaster]

I agree that toe will wear tires faster than camber. I also agree that it will take a long time for inside edge wear to develop with the specs you (and I) currently have. Just keep in mind that you will not be rotating tires, and your tires are wider than Dodge had planned for when designing alignment specs. It will happen, it's just a matter of how long it will take. If you drive like me, you'll need new tires for other reasons before you wear out the inside edge!

Granted I don't have hard proof on my car because of the low mileage. I am simply offering information based on what I have seen over the last decade that we have been working with and aligning lowered vehicles in our shop (ricers, pickups, Mustangs, etc.).

[Speedy!]

I agree that toe will wear tires faster than camber. I also agree that it will take a long time for inside edge wear to develop with the specs you (and I) currently have. Just keep in mind that you will not be rotating tires, and your tires are wider than Dodge had planned for when designing alignment specs. It will happen, it's just a matter of how long it will take. If you drive like me, you'll need new tires for other reasons before you wear out the inside edge!

Granted I don't have hard proof on my car because of the low mileage. I am simply offering information based on what I have seen over the last decade that we have been working with and aligning lowered vehicles in our shop (ricers, pickups, Mustangs, etc.).

Ah, cool. I didn't realize you dealt with this stuff every day. The problem with the Challenger is it's so new, most folks haven't driven them enough miles lowered to really know what's gonna happen. I figured some Charger owners had, and could chime in on what they saw and what they're specs were. I only found one example on this site where someone posted pics of their tires and they were SHOT, but his specs on camber were in the -2.X degree range which is quite a bit more than I'm showing.

So, looking at the rest of the specs from my alignment, do you see anything I should have adjusted? The shop did a free check, and didn't adjust anything other than a little bit of toe to see if it'd help the camber situation at all, which it didn't.

Car tracks perfectly straight and feels and handles well.

As far as the camber kits go....I understand how the front works with it's adjustable ball joint.

I'm not understanding the rear bushing camber kit though. Is it adjustable to +/- .75 degrees depending on how the bushing is installed? For example, with the bolt hole at say 5 o'clock is it giving you +.65* of adjustment, then with the bolt hole at 3 o'clock you'd get +.75* of adjustment? Or is the bushing installed only one way and you get either +.75* with the bolt hole facing the inside of the car or -.75*with it facing the outside of the car?

One other question.....Why does it seem there are so many different specs for the alignment on this car? The SRT Engineers provided one, the shop manual has a different one, the dealer uses yet another set, and the Hunter Machine unbelievably had yet another set of completely different specs.

[novawagonmaster]

I'm not understanding the rear bushing camber kit though. Is it adjustable to +/- .75 degrees depending on how the bushing is installed?

If you put the hole at 12:00 or 6:00, you will have the same specs as before.
With the hole closest to the differential (rotating the bushing 90 degrees from 12:00), you will be +.75
Splitting the difference (rotating the bushing 45 degrees), you will be +.37

One other question.....Why does it seem there are so many different specs for the alignment on this car? The SRT Engineers provided one, the shop manual has a different one, the dealer uses yet another set, and the Hunter Machine unbelievably had yet another set of completely different specs.

I know what you mean about multiple specs. However, those specs, even though slightly different, are usually pretty close to one another in the real world (not much adjustment to achieve one vs. the other).

After a car has been on the road for a while, sometimes tire wear problems will arise that were not accounted for from the factory. At this point, the manufacturer will do one of two things. Either issue a TSB with revised alignment specs or say it's "normal". This is but one reason for finding multiple specs for the same vehicle.

I tend to use the Hunter specs. They are typically very close to the manufacturer specs. Having said that, the two guys that I have doing most of our alignments know which cars are trouble, and often go beyond the listed specs to minimize tire wear (rear camber on Ford Focus for example).

[Speedy!]

What were your specs? Do you see anything I should have adjusted outside of camber on mine?

I called SPC and spoke to their tech guy. Told him my specs, and yet again the specs SPC have were different from the other 4 specs I've found!!!!

Anyway, he said to just drive it and keep an eye on the tires. He said the alignment parts "are expensive and don't use them unless you see problems with your tires start to arise".

Interesting that he didn't try to sell them to me.

Although I know to get the Eibach parts at half the price.

[novawagonmaster]

Here are my current specs (all specs in degrees):

Camber:
LF: -0.7 ....RF: -1.1
LR: -1.3 ....RR: -1.0

Toe:
LF: .02 ....RF: .04
LR: .17 ....RR: .18

Front cross camber: .4
Front total toe: .06

Rear cross camber: -0.2
Rear total toe: .35
Thrust angle: 0.00

[Speedy!]

Thanks. Yeah we're very close.

Another guy has the same Eibach kit with similar alignment specs. He told me he just did a 3,000 mile road trip and checked his tread depth before and after on the inside and outside of the tires. They're still the same after the 3,000 mile trip.

I called SPC today to ask their techs about the camber kits. The tech said not to do it unless I see uneven tire wear, so I think we're on the right track here.