Options for lowering if I have Nivomats?

[NVRDUN]

I want to lower my Magnum but I have the Nivomats. What can I do beside bag or coil over? Are those my only options?

[MattRobertson]

You have to remove the Nivomats and replace them with something else, as they will level the car out to where they think its supposed to be no matter what you do.

You can do an SRT suspension which will lower it some, improve your ride performance enormously and be cheap.

You can put on stock non-leveling shocks and the do springs... but since that will usually ruin the shocks in a few months don't do it.

And then there's coilovers and bags.

[NVRDUN]

Alright, what about mopar springs with stock shocks (non nivomat). Would that put about the same height as SRT take offs?

[UPS92008]

Im in the same boat as you nvrdun. I cant lower the car to much cuz it will not get into the driveway, and that is bad.
How much lower is the SRT8 suspension?
How do springs ruin the shocks? I remember that my koni's didnt last long on my mustang.
Will keep a eye on this one.:)

[MattRobertson]

I don't know how far the Mopar springs will lower the car. I am going to guess that the SRT springs/shocks lower it less but I really have no idea. The SRT suspension lowers the car 1/2" from stock, so its not so much in the lowering dept.

Aftermarket springs kill stock shocks because they reduce the shock's ability to travel. An Eibach ProKit reduced my spring travel to about 4"... and that was before they settled. The shocks can't handle that and they blow out. They may last a long time if you are a cruiser, and if you drive on uneven roads or bumpy highways you can expect near-sudden death. Mine lasted less than six months but I drive like a madman.

What do I mean by blown out shock? Check this video out:

http://foohbar.com/ul/mOV00439.mpg

You are pogo'ing on your springs with shocks like that. Note how easily I pushed the shock down, too. Thats a very typical result.

[NVRDUN]

Alright, lets say I decide to get Eibach springs. What shocks/struts would I need to get?

[MattRobertson]

uh... bad ones. The only alternative with Eibach springs that I know of is Eibach shocks, and there were a buttload of horror stories on those, and how Eibach handled the warranty claims (you pull the shocks off, you buy and install new shocks -- all at your expense -- and send in the bad ones to Eibach and they decide whether to give you a refund). The shocks, as I recall, are around $600. Between that and the springs that would put you awfully close to a set of coilovers, wouldn't it?

[SRT8U]

If you are not going to do Coilovers...although that would be my suggestion since the price for coilovers is not that much more...but you could do the Eibach Springs and Dampers. You can buy them individually or as a kit.
Here is the kit.
http://www.bmcspeedshop.com/product_p/eib-2873-780.htm
And the Dampers
http://www.bmcspeedshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EIB%2D2873%2D840
Let us know is we can help.

[chibow]

If you decide to pull your Nivomat shock off let me know. I am looking for a set and have had very little luck.

[NVRDUN]

Yea, thats what Ive noticed. The only shocks ive found are the Eibachs. But the price with eibach springs and shocks is close enough to coilovers that I may as well just get the coilovers. Oh, well Ill just keep saving the pennies till I can get some coilovers.

[MattRobertson]

HHP sells what I think are the lowest-cost coilover systems here (http://estore.websitepros.com/802805/Detail.bok?no=1010). Most of the coilover systems out there are actually made by KW. Including Eibach's and those ST's at HHP, which are basically KW V1's. Even the Mopar coilovers are KW's - with the KW label still on them.

[Hotnslow1]

Monroe makes standard rear shocks for LX's
SENSA-TRAC® PASSENGER CAR SHOCK ABSORBERS #5797
Ebay for $35.00 each http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-05-DODGE-MAGNUM-R-T-Shock-Absorber-MONROE-5797_W0QQitemZ200197770206QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 200197770206&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 http://catalog.tenneco.com/monroe/partImageDisplay.do?partNumber=5797
2 of these and a set of lowering springs could be the cheapest route. The springs still may ruin the shocks since they are OEM style but $70.00 for two would be a cheap replacement.

[moonstreaker]

You can get the Eibach Pro-kit (springs and dampeners) to your door for around $625 if you look hard enough. And this is from a very reputable company that everyone here knows. So it is actually a much cheaper option than coil overs if you do your homework.

[ko4000]

You might as well pick up some coilovers.
I just picked up some TEIN SS Coilovers that will be installed this weekend..
There is a thread on here about how the KW's were giving people problems and then I did some research and realized (like MattRobertson said) a lot of the coilovers that we can choose from are made from KW, including Mopar. So I opted with the TEIN's and I will let you know how it goes. You can also get what is called EDFC that will change you dampening on the fly.. pretty neat but a bit pricey for something you might only use for the 1st couple months after installing teh CO's

[Andrew@pm-fl.com]

Pedders Rear coils (2941) can be used with the nivomat shocks or any shock that is 59mm+

Check out their website for some more info.

www.peddersusa.com (http://www.peddersusa.com)

If you need any help, please give me a call (727) 494-0694.

Thanks,
Luis
Precision Motorsports
luis@pm-fl.com

[Darthvader]

I live in crap country. Had Nivomats and went with adjustable coilovers. Air was way to expensive and not good in crap weather. I can adjust my rears easily from inside the car.

[jhs914]

Pedders Rear coils (2941) can be used with the nivomat shocks or any shock that is 59mm+

Check out their website for some more info.

www.peddersusa.com (http://www.peddersusa.com)

If you need any help, please give me a call (727) 494-0694.

Thanks,
Luis
Precision Motorsports
luis@pm-fl.comThe Pedder's web site describes these as lowering springs. If so, the Nivomats (self-leveling) will not let the spring lower the ride height. It maintains a constant ride height no matter the load or spring height.

If you are not familiar with the Nivomats, read this:


Nivomat looks like a standard shock absorber with a piston rod with damping valves at the end, an outer tube and a cylinder tube. Several components are added to provide the leveling function. Two reservoirs are contained in the outer tube, an oil reservoir (or low pressure reservoir) and a high pressure chamber. Inside the piston rod is the pump chamber (with inlet and outlet valve) and the pump rod, which serves as a height sensor or regulator and a release bore which releases the pressure after the vehicle has reached level.

A load initially causes static compression of the vehicle's suspension. Once the vehicle begins to move, the pump is activated by the relative movement of the body. Extension of the piston rod causes oil to be drawn through the inlet valve into the pump. Compression then pushes the oil through the outlet valve into the high pressure chamber. The pressure in the oil reservoir decreases as the pressure in the high pressure chamber increases. The increasing pressure acts on the piston rod and raises the vehicle at a continuous rate.

Once the vehicle has reached optimum height, oil is no longer drawn in. The height regulator opens a bypass between the high pressure chamber and the pump chamber preventing oil from flowing out of the oil reservoir.

When the vehicle is unloaded the vehicle begins to rise. The height regulator opens the release bore. Oil flows out of the high pressure chamber into the oil reservoir, the pressure drops in the high pressure chamber and the vehicle lowers to the initial height.

Since Nivomat is mechanical, the vehicle needs to be moving before the pump starts to work and it takes about a mile to a mile-and-a-half of travel before the vehicle reaches its optimal level point.

But the Nivomat system doesn't just level the vehicle under load. As the load increases, the pressure inside the shock increases as oil is displaced from the reservoir to the inside of the unit, compressing the gas volume. This creates a progressive increase in spring rate and damping with little or no change to ride frequency.

My Magnum RT with the towing package has these shocks and they work as advertised. As long as they are on the car you cannot lower the rear with springs, the shocks will pump up to raise the ride height to the preset level.

[Andrew@pm-fl.com]

The Pedder's web site describes these as lowering springs. If so, the Nivomats (self-leveling) will not let the spring lower the ride height. It maintains a constant ride height no matter the load or spring height.

If you are not familiar with the Nivomats, read this:


Nivomat looks like a standard shock absorber with a piston rod with damping valves at the end, an outer tube and a cylinder tube. Several components are added to provide the leveling function. Two reservoirs are contained in the outer tube, an oil reservoir (or low pressure reservoir) and a high pressure chamber. Inside the piston rod is the pump chamber (with inlet and outlet valve) and the pump rod, which serves as a height sensor or regulator and a release bore which releases the pressure after the vehicle has reached level.

A load initially causes static compression of the vehicle's suspension. Once the vehicle begins to move, the pump is activated by the relative movement of the body. Extension of the piston rod causes oil to be drawn through the inlet valve into the pump. Compression then pushes the oil through the outlet valve into the high pressure chamber. The pressure in the oil reservoir decreases as the pressure in the high pressure chamber increases. The increasing pressure acts on the piston rod and raises the vehicle at a continuous rate.

Once the vehicle has reached optimum height, oil is no longer drawn in. The height regulator opens a bypass between the high pressure chamber and the pump chamber preventing oil from flowing out of the oil reservoir.

When the vehicle is unloaded the vehicle begins to rise. The height regulator opens the release bore. Oil flows out of the high pressure chamber into the oil reservoir, the pressure drops in the high pressure chamber and the vehicle lowers to the initial height.

Since Nivomat is mechanical, the vehicle needs to be moving before the pump starts to work and it takes about a mile to a mile-and-a-half of travel before the vehicle reaches its optimal level point.

But the Nivomat system doesn't just level the vehicle under load. As the load increases, the pressure inside the shock increases as oil is displaced from the reservoir to the inside of the unit, compressing the gas volume. This creates a progressive increase in spring rate and damping with little or no change to ride frequency.

My Magnum RT with the towing package has these shocks and they work as advertised. As long as they are on the car you cannot lower the rear with springs, the shocks will pump up to raise the ride height to the preset level.

Thanks for the info jhs.

I double checked with the techs over at Pedders and these will drop the LX about 25mm with the nivomat shocks.

Luis
Precision Motorsports
(727) 494-0694
luis@pm-fl.com

[jhs914]

Thanks for the info jhs.

I double checked with the techs over at Pedders and these will drop the LX about 25mm with the nivomat shocks.

Luis
Precision Motorsports
(727) 494-0694
luis@pm-fl.comCall me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it. There is nothing magical about Pedders springs that make them behave differently with Nivomats than any other spring. They may lower 25mm (.985") when you first put the car on the ground, but after you drive the car the Nivomats pump back up and restore the ride height to the engineered specification for the shock.

Find a customer with an RT with the towing package, install the springs, drive the car for a few miles, and I guarantee the ride height in the rear will be where it was before the install.

I'll buy you a beer if I am wrong :beerchug:

[Hotnslow1]

I wonder if u pulled the rear springs out on a Nivomat Do you think they could pump back up to the height? Just a thought

[jhs914]

If they detect a lower than specified height they pump themselves back up to the engineered height as the car is driven and the shocks work up and down. The SRT8 rear shocks are Nivomats also, but have a slightly lower setting than the other LX Nivomats.

When they pump up they also stiffen up and ride much stiffer.

From the answer by Luis, it is apparent that the Pedder's engineers he is talking to have no idea what the Nivomats are. You cannot lower the rear with Nivomats. The shocks sense the lower ride height and pump themselves up to restore the height they are designed for.

These are automatic load leveling shocks designed for towing and heavy loads, but the only way they sense a heavier load is reduced ride height. They cannot differentiate between a lower ride height caused by more weight in the car or caused by shorter springs. It is that simple. I don't know why the Pedder's guys have such a hard time understanding that.

[jhs914]

Thanks for the info jhs.

I double checked with the techs over at Pedders and these will drop the LX about 25mm with the nivomat shocks.

Luis
Precision Motorsports
(727) 494-0694
luis@pm-fl.com

Luis, send this link to the Pedder's techs you talked to. It is Sach's technical paper explaining their Nivomat system, written by engineers for engineers.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/nivomat.pdf

[Hotnslow1]

I'm no engineer(didn't even make it through high school) so if this doesn't make sense... LOL
I'm thinking that the Nivomat controls level by the weight it and the spring are engineered to support. By how much load pressure is put on the hydraulics in the shock. So the Nivomat can compensate for additional weight put on the spring system (the nivomat and spring combined) by pumping the shock up by shaft movement. It seems to me a spring could work if u transfer all the static weight to the spring and not to the Nivomat. That would cause the Nivomat not to pump up until it has more weight on it. I'm thinking a shorter coil with tighter windings and a thicker gauge would trick the Nivomat by removing the Load on the Nivomat. From the look of the 3 rear springs Pedders make it would seem to support my theory but I've been wrong before.

[diamondrmp]

I'll chime in here from experience. When I bought my Magnum in 05 I had the Nivomats. The next day I put the Mopar lowering springs on it (by the dealer) and I sware that when they drove the car out from the garage it was actually higher. You must remove the Nivomats in order to lower your Mag. I remember a thread a couple of years ago talking about a guy in Washington state that was modifying the Nivomats to lower the ride height.

[jhs914]

I'm no engineer(didn't even make it through high school) so if this doesn't make sense... LOL
I'm thinking that the Nivomat controls level by the weight it and the spring are engineered to support. By how much load pressure is put on the hydraulics in the shock. So the Nivomat can compensate for additional weight put on the spring system (the nivomat and spring combined) by pumping the shock up by shaft movement. It seems to me a spring could work if u transfer all the static weight to the spring and not to the Nivomat. That would cause the Nivomat not to pump up until it has more weight on it. I'm thinking a shorter coil with tighter windings and a thicker gauge would trick the Nivomat by removing the Load on the Nivomat. From the look of the 3 rear springs Pedders make it would seem to support my theory but I've been wrong before.

What the Nivomats sense is ride height/shock compression. If the shock is constantly compressed lower than its designed height, the valves in the shock transfer fluid to the load leveling device built into the shock thereby pumping it back up to the engineered height as the shock rebounds and compresses while being driven.

Again..... whether the shock is compressed below its designed height because you have 400 lbs. of horse feed in the trunk or because your springs are shorter than stock, the Nivomat can't tell the difference. It will pump itself back up either way. Talk to the guys who have these shocks. The will back me up on this.

[Hotnslow1]

I read that thread he tried to trick the shock by extending the shaft higher in the mount. My thinking is that did nothing because the weight on the nivomat remained the same. My thinking is to get the nivomat unloaded by putting a higher pound spring. The drop would be limited because you would need the coils to be thicker and tighter as to not bind the springs. How high is the back of a LX if you pulled the Nivomat out? My thinking is the car would be lower. Along that thinking the Nivomat is designed to handle part of the spring loading. I'm basically saying the nivomat compensates for weight loading not height. Hope I made a little sense!

[jhs914]

I'll chime in here from experience. When I bought my Magnum in 05 I had the Nivomats. The next day I put the Mopar lowering springs on it (by the dealer) and I swear that when they drove the car out from the garage it was actually higher. You must remove the Nivomats in order to lower your Mag. I remember a thread a couple of years ago talking about a guy in Washington state that was modifying the Nivomats to lower the ride height.
BINGO! Thank you, daimondrmp!

If the Pedders guys install their springs on a customers car because their tech guys think it will work, they will get the same result, and a dissatisfied customer. The Mopar springs are designed for about a 1" drop, the same as the Pedders springs Luis noted. And the Pedders will produce the same result as your Mopar/Nivomat combination did.

[jhs914]

I read that thread he tried to trick the shock by extending the shaft higher in the mount. My thinking is that did nothing because the weight on the nivomat remained the same. My thinking is to get the nivomat unloaded by putting a higher pound spring. The drop would be limited because you would need the coils to be thicker and tighter as to not bind the springs. How high is the back of a LX if you pulled the Nivomat out? My thinking is the car would be lower. Along that thinking the Nivomat is designed to handle part of the spring loading. I'm basically saying the nivomat compensates for weight loading not height. Hope I made a little sense!
Your theory makes sense, but unfortunately, that is not how the Nivomats work. Read the .pdf link I posted for Luis for a detailed explanation as to how they work. Also, read what happened when Diamonrmp put Mopar (1" drop) springs on his Nivomat car.

If at the same time you put 1" lower springs on the rear you also moved the top mounting location for the shock 1" higher, then it would work. Get out the plasma torch and the welder to make that work though.

[Hotnslow1]

All springs are not the same. If you design a spring stiffer but shorter u can drop the height but keep the same or increase the load capacity. Here's an example of what I'm thinking: If the Nivomat and spring are designed to a static load of 1000lbs and say the spring has a 800lb spring rate the Nivomat has a spring rate of 200 lbs. And the Nivomat can compensate for a extra load of say 300 lbs (there has got to be a limit to how much the Nivomat can compensate for.) then the trick would be to have the spring handle the weight and the Nivomat not trying to compensate for a load. I'm thinking that this is the only theory that would make the Pedders springs work and not all the other lowering springs which are designed for regular shocks.

[Hotnslow1]

I think somebody needs to buy these springs. Maybe Pedders would send us freebies to prove or disprove the product. Luis are these available now or not?

[jhs914]

All springs are not the same. If you design a spring stiffer but shorter u can drop the height but keep the same or increase the load capacity. Here's an example of what I'm thinking: If the Nivomat and spring are designed to a static load of 1000lbs and say the spring has a 800lb spring rate the Nivomat has a spring rate of 200 lbs. And the Nivomat can compensate for a extra load of say 300 lbs (there has got to be a limit to how much the Nivomat can compensate for.) then the trick would be to have the spring handle the weight and the Nivomat not trying to compensate for a load. I'm thinking that this is the only theory that would make the Pedders springs work and not all the other lowering springs which are designed for regular shocks.I don't know any other way to say it. The Nivomat is HEIGHT sensitive (not WEIGHT sensitive) and if the spring lowers the static height of the car it doesn't make any difference what the spring rate is. It will give the car a lower static height, compressing the shock, causing the shock to pump itself back up to its original height.

You could remove the spring, put a Mack truck spring its place that holds the car at a lower static height than stock and the Nivomat will pump itself up as soon as you drive the car.

If you guys don't believe this, OK. I give up. I just want the first guy with Pedders lowering springs installed with Nivomat shocks to report what the results are. Like I told Luis, I'll buy you a beer if I'm wrong, and you buy me one if I'm right. I prefer a cold Sam Adams! :beerchug:

[bcplatinum]

There is a guy on another forum with a daytona that put the eibach prokit on and left the nivomats on. He said he has 1.5" drop on the rear and I believe he now has about 15000 miles since he lowered it.
I thought the nivomat shock for the srt and daytona was the same? If I am not mistaken it is the same part number?
The explanation I heard why the srt springs and some spring kits work with the nivomats is the nivomat has a tolerance of what it will take before it self adjusts. This made sense since the srt sits 1/2"-1" lower than an r/t. Also not every car sits exactly the same, so maybe the tolerance is built in to be about an inch. With that in mind it would explain how some people with nivomats have been able to get the eibachs or mopar springs to work.

[jhs914]

There is a guy on another forum with a daytona that put the eibach prokit on and left the nivomats on. He said he has 1.5" drop on the rear and I believe he now has about 15000 miles since he lowered it.
I thought the nivomat shock for the srt and daytona was the same? If I am not mistaken it is the same part number?
The explanation I heard why the srt springs and some spring kits work with the nivomats is the nivomat has a tolerance of what it will take before it self adjusts. This made sense since the srt sits 1/2"-1" lower than an r/t. Also not every car sits exactly the same, so maybe the tolerance is built in to be about an inch. With that in mind it would explain how some people with nivomats have been able to get the eibachs or mopar springs to work.The SRT Nivomats (and probably the Road and Track package Nivomats on the Charger) are designed for a lower ride height than the standard LX towing package Nivomats, which I have. They are both Nivomats, but with different design parameters.

[bcplatinum]

The SRT Nivomats (and probably the Road and Track package Nivomats on the Charger) are designed for a lower ride height than the standard LX towing package Nivomats, which I have. They are both Nivomats, but with different design parameters.

Makes sense! If that is the case dodge/chrysler has two or three different nivomat shocks. One would be for the srt/daytona and one for the tow package. So there should be different part numbers. If not the tolerance would have to be at least an inch+ to account for the difference in height between the srt/daytona and a magnum/charger with the nivomat tow package.
My only thought was that there has to be some sort of tolerance, and maybe that is how a few people have gotten them to work while most have failed miserably.
I would be curious to know exactly what kind of tolerance the nivomat has before it self adjusts.

[diamondrmp]

There are no pumps, gas etc. The shocks are fully enclosed and are pre height set. I went through a lot of research because I didn't want to get rid of mine. In the end I got rid of them and the dealer redid my contract and took off the cost of the shocks because I told them before the purchase that I wanted to lower the Mag and they said it could be done with the tow package.

[jhs914]

There are no pumps, gas etc. The shocks are fully enclosed and are pre height set. I went through a lot of research because I didn't want to get rid of mine. In the end I got rid of them and the dealer redid my contract and took off the cost of the shocks because I told them before the purchase that I wanted to lower the Mag and they said it could be done with the tow package.
So your dealer also believed the lowering springs would work with the Nivomats, but learned he was wrong after he tried it. At least he was a stand up guy and refunded you the cost of the Nivomats.

As far as there being no pump, there is no external pump. The compression and rebounding of the shock acts as a pump to pressurize the lifting mechanism in the shock. A pretty ingenious process. There is no other shock like it.

[Andrew@pm-fl.com]

Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it. There is nothing magical about Pedders springs that make them behave differently with Nivomats than any other spring. They may lower 25mm (.985") when you first put the car on the ground, but after you drive the car the Nivomats pump back up and restore the ride height to the engineered specification for the shock.

Find a customer with an RT with the towing package, install the springs, drive the car for a few miles, and I guarantee the ride height in the rear will be where it was before the install.

I'll buy you a beer if I am wrong :beerchug:

This is a Charger with lowering springs on Nivomat shocks.

http://www.lxforums.com/gallery/files/2/0/1/6/0/Chargerpedderized.gif

If they detect a lower than specified height they pump themselves back up to the engineered height as the car is driven and the shocks work up and down. The SRT8 rear shocks are Nivomats also, but have a slightly lower setting than the other LX Nivomats.

When they pump up they also stiffen up and ride much stiffer.

From the answer by Luis, it is apparent that the Pedder's engineers he is talking to have no idea what the Nivomats are. You cannot lower the rear with Nivomats. The shocks sense the lower ride height and pump themselves up to restore the height they are designed for.

These are automatic load leveling shocks designed for towing and heavy loads, but the only way they sense a heavier load is reduced ride height. They cannot differentiate between a lower ride height caused by more weight in the car or caused by shorter springs. It is that simple. I don't know why the Pedder's guys have such a hard time understanding that.

A nivomat shock is a partial load carrying damper. It does not carry 100% of the load. The coil carries the balance. You cannot drop a nivomat 70mm, but you can drop it 25mm.


Luis, send this link to the Pedder's techs you talked to. It is Sach's technical paper explaining their Nivomat system, written by engineers for engineers.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/nivomat.pdf

Will do.

I'm no engineer(didn't even make it through high school) so if this doesn't make sense... LOL
I'm thinking that the Nivomat controls level by the weight it and the spring are engineered to support. By how much load pressure is put on the hydraulics in the shock. So the Nivomat can compensate for additional weight put on the spring system (the nivomat and spring combined) by pumping the shock up by shaft movement. It seems to me a spring could work if u transfer all the static weight to the spring and not to the Nivomat. That would cause the Nivomat not to pump up until it has more weight on it. I'm thinking a shorter coil with tighter windings and a thicker gauge would trick the Nivomat by removing the Load on the Nivomat. From the look of the 3 rear springs Pedders make it would seem to support my theory but I've been wrong before.

You should have been an engineer! This is very close to how I believe the rear suspension works on Nivomats.


I think somebody needs to buy these springs. Maybe Pedders would send us freebies to prove or disprove the product. Luis are these available now or not?

These are readily available for installation and guaranteed to work. The proof is in the pictures.

[jhs914]

Luis,

You and Rob Anderson need to get together and have a meeting of the minds on this.

To quote Rob: (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=102143)

Lets hold up a bit here for a sec.

The 2941 can not be used on nivomats, i've tried.

Luis and Bob may be confused with the new part numbers there are a few choices.

We do make a spring that does lower it a bit, but not an inch. it's more like 1/2 max.

Bottom line is if you have nivomats, and you want to lower it, throw the nivomats away, and replace the rear shocks. There is no 'special' spring that will allow it to be lowered an inch or more with nivomats. The 2941 with the nivomats will sit a bit lower, until you drive it, and if you hit oscillating bumps you will feel like your riding on solid rear suspension.

There has been some confusion on the springs and what will work with what. Please be patient as we run through our first sets of cars and test everything out.

How did that Charger sit after it had been driven on the street a few miles and the Nivomats pumped up?

[JusticePete]

Sorry for any confusion. Chrysler uses so many rear shocks with very different specs on the LX it is confusing. This should clear it all up.

The Nivomat does not carry 100% of the load in an LX. They carry a percentage of the load. A Nivomat is height sensitive. They cannot be dropped inches. Pedders 2941 coil is designed to work with a LX that runs with a Nivomat with a lower tube body OD of 60mm or larger. The drop will be as specified.

There are very important installation details that must be followed. There are so many rotational arms in the LX suspension to create improperly timed bushes. ALL of the bushes must be timed to the new suspension ride height. Loosen ALL the rotation bush bolts -- not falling off loose, just a couple of turns. Drive the vehicle SLOWLY around the shop lot. Drive on to a rail type lift -- an alignment lift. With the car empty except for a 1/4 tank of fuel with the weight of the car on the wheels, tighten all the rotational suspension bolts. This process will time the bushes to the new ride height. Now the car can be properly aligned.

We have done quite a few SRT 8s. One that I am aware of was done in Houston last week. The owner loves it. When the coils are designed to fit the vehcile and all the associated suspension bits you can get excellent results with lowering coils and Nivomats. Make certain that the lower Nivomat tube OD measures a MINIMUM of 60mm. Anything below that will not work.

For vehicles with factory rear dampers -- that are NOT Nivomat the 7981 coils will work well. Of course the factory damping rates on the non-Nivomat and Nivomat units are not what we would spec at Pedders, the 2941 works with the 60mm and larger Nivomats and the 7981 with the non-Nivomats. If you want to lower and have your LX drive correctly -- do NOT start with coils or dampers. Start with the foundational bushes. Your rear sub-frame connectors, upper front control arm bushes and front radius rod bushes are functionally a step above the consistency of Jello for any one who drive above the legal speed limits. The amount of bumpsteer is 9mm. That is far to great a range for a performance sedan in our opinion. A Pedders bumpsteer correction kit is another foundational bush. Once these bits are in place, you can proceed to change ride heights and dampers with significantly better results.

Here is the good news -- We have an adequate stock of 2940 & 2941 coils to sell individually.

Here is the bad news -- The majority of our LX bits are on an allocation basis. They are sold as complete kits to Dealers for installation only. We are doing this for two reasons. First is that I am an anal control freak and I want to make absolutely certain that the LX launch is thisclosetoperfect. It is a complex platform. It is a very complex launch. We will be through with our launch process by the end of March. For every Dealer in our network, we are doing in house installations with our Pedders Corporate people on hand. The second is that, we are sold out through the end of March. There is a waiting line for bits. To make certain that our launch was thisclosetoperfect, I ordered an initial manufacturing run of only 150 Track II vehicle complete packages. It doesn't sound like much until you look at the retail sale value -- the volume is substantial. This short run would allow us to tweak any bit specification without delay. I thought this would last three months -- it lasted about three weeks. My bad... Sorry.

Place your order for individual bits and complete kits with your Dealer a.s.a.p. as we fill Dealer orders based on what they have retails sold. i.e. when thier order comes in marked as retail sold with the electronic date and time stamp.

[Hotnslow1]

I'd like to thank you guys for clarifying this subject and responding so fast. It's nice when company's actually will respond to questions and try to help. LXforums is lucky to have many vendors that will listen to and actually respond.

[Bob@pm-fl.com]

Hey guys,

I am the owner of our company, and I have been watching this thread as it has unfolded. I want to let you all know that as the owner of our company I can say that Pedders is THE best company and product line of ANY that we have ever sold, bar NONE. (Not talking just suspension, but all the products we sell, including superchargers, headers, tuning, Heads, Cams, everything). :)

They are actually the only manufacturer that cares enough to send their president (Pete) to show the dealers the correct way to work on new product lines, like the LX's and not charge us a penny. No other manufacturers care to provide that level of service to their dealers (they are very choosy about dealers as well). In fact, most manufacturers don't even give us a call when something new comes out.

If anyone doubts the ride quality and incredible handling from these kits, come to Florida and take a ride in our new "G machine" (Company 2006 Charger R/T with a track 2 kit). Many HEMI people did at our open house Saturday (the 16th) and came back with jaws dropped. Let's just say it's almost to .90G's now (up from .64 G's stock) on stock compound tires, and with sticky tires I suspect it will do much better still. Thanks for everyone's attention and questions, we look forward to working with you all. :)

Bob

[jhs914]

Sorry for any confusion. Chrysler uses so many rear shocks with very different specs on the LX it is confusing. This should clear it all up.

The Nivomat does not carry 100% of the load in an LX. They carry a percentage of the load. A Nivomat is height sensitive. They cannot be dropped inches. Pedders 2941 coil is designed to work with a LX that runs with a Nivomat with a lower tube body OD of 60mm or larger. The drop will be as specified.

There are very important installation details that must be followed. There are so many rotational arms in the LX suspension to create improperly timed bushes. ALL of the bushes must be timed to the new suspension ride height. Loosen ALL the rotation bush bolts -- not falling off loose, just a couple of turns. Drive the vehicle SLOWLY around the shop lot. Drive on to a rail type lift -- an alignment lift. With the car empty except for a 1/4 tank of fuel with the weight of the car on the wheels, tighten all the rotational suspension bolts. This process will time the bushes to the new ride height. Now the car can be properly aligned.

We have done quite a few SRT 8s. One that I am aware of was done in Houston last week. The owner loves it. When the coils are designed to fit the vehcile and all the associated suspension bits you can get excellent results with lowering coils and Nivomats. Make certain that the lower Nivomat tube OD measures a MINIMUM of 60mm. Anything below that will not work.

For vehicles with factory rear dampers -- that are NOT Nivomat the 7981 coils will work well. Of course the factory damping rates on the non-Nivomat and Nivomat units are not what we would spec at Pedders, the 2941 works with the 60mm and larger Nivomats and the 7981 with the non-Nivomats. If you want to lower and have your LX drive correctly -- do NOT start with coils or dampers. Start with the foundational bushes. Your rear sub-frame connectors, upper front control arm bushes and front radius rod bushes are functionally a step above the consistency of Jello for any one who drive above the legal speed limits. The amount of bumpsteer is 9mm. That is far to great a range for a performance sedan in our opinion. A Pedders bumpsteer correction kit is another foundational bush. Once these bits are in place, you can proceed to change ride heights and dampers with significantly better results.

Here is the good news -- We have an adequate stock of 2940 & 2941 coils to sell individually.

Here is the bad news -- The majority of our LX bits are on an allocation basis. They are sold as complete kits to Dealers for installation only. We are doing this for two reasons. First is that I am an anal control freak and I want to make absolutely certain that the LX launch is thisclosetoperfect. It is a complex platform. It is a very complex launch. We will be through with our launch process by the end of March. For every Dealer in our network, we are doing in house installations with our Pedders Corporate people on hand. The second is that, we are sold out through the end of March. There is a waiting line for bits. To make certain that our launch was thisclosetoperfect, I ordered an initial manufacturing run of only 150 Track II vehicle complete packages. It doesn't sound like much until you look at the retail sale value -- the volume is substantial. This short run would allow us to tweak any bit specification without delay. I thought this would last three months -- it lasted about three weeks. My bad... Sorry.

Place your order for individual bits and complete kits with your Dealer a.s.a.p. as we fill Dealer orders based on what they have retails sold. i.e. when thier order comes in marked as retail sold with the electronic date and time stamp.
So if I install the 2941 rear springs on my Magnum RT (not an SRT8) with the towing package Nivomats I can acheive a 25mm drop. Or do I have to install the $2,000 worth of suspension bushings along with the springs to make them work with the Nivomats?

[Andrew@pm-fl.com]

So if I install the 2941 rear springs on my Magnum RT (not an SRT8) with the towing package Nivomats I can acheive a 25mm drop. Or do I have to install the $2,000 worth of suspension bushings along with the springs to make them work with the Nivomats?

To receive the full benefit of the Pedders suspension, it is recommended that you at least replace the Rear Cradle bushings, bump steer bushings, and upper control arm kit.


Since the stock bushings are somewhat poor in their performance, it would be advisable to change them, as to have a good foundation for future performance modifications.

The street I kit includes:

(1) EP1172 Rear Cradle Bushings
(1) EP2113 Bump Steer Correction Kit
(1) EP4107 Lower Front Shock Mount
(1) EP6567 Front Radius Rod Bushings
(1) EP6568 Front Lower Control Arm Bushings
(1) EP6570 Front Upper Control Arm Bush Adjustable Camber
(2) EP7277 Rear Control Arm/Radius Arm Bush Adjustable

Price: $1632.73

This kit would take care of all the foundation bushings.

[diamondrmp]

So in other words without the rest of what you recommend the coils alone will not drop the vehicle.

I will say it is fantastic that you guys have come up with a solution to drop a vehicle with the Nivomats.

Maybe I missed it but is this GUARENTEED to drop a Nivomat equipped vehicle?

[jhs914]

I have no doubt that the stock suspension bushings are not conducive to performance driving and that the Pedders bushings offer a huge improvement. However this discussion has been about lowering the suspension with Nivomats, specifically if installation of the Pedders 2941 lowering springs with rear Nivomats will lower the car.

I do not need the bushings nor do I want to pay for them. I cruise, I don't race or autocross this car (I have a Honda S2000 for that).

Will the installation of the 2941 springs alone lower the car 25mm (.985")?

If you say yes, can you give us the name of an LXForums member who can give a testimonial as to how well this setup works? Rob Anderson said he has tried it and it did not work. Until someone else who has tried it says otherwise, I remain skeptical.

[MikeEast]

I would like to see another Picture of that Charger after it just did a hundred miles of significant road use, not just around the block a few times.

Suspension is my next focus, I've already proved that the damn thing is fast enough...

Mike

[wheelgarage]

If you say yes, can you give us the name of an LXForums member who can give a testimonial as to how well this setup works? Rob Anderson said he has tried it and it did not work. Until someone else who has tried it says otherwise, I remain skeptical.

+1

I'm now on a budget. I just closed on a new home.....after a kitchen redo that is needed...:roll:

I thought I had enought for c-overs, sways and 22" vipers. Now I looking just to lower the car on springs with the stock shocks and the vipers. It's just a daily car, so I am not interested in the bushing kit. I will have to wait over six months to get the suspension set....so, if the 2941's are a good option, I buying them.

My other option is to sell my R/T chrome 20's to recoup the cost of the c-overs and sways since I'll have new wheels anyway....damn...hate being broke..

[JusticePete]

I would like to see another Picture of that Charger after it just did a hundred miles of significant road use, not just around the block a few times.

Suspension is my next focus, I've already proved that the damn thing is fast enough...

Mike

Skeptics are created when vendors over promise and under deliver. At Pedders we strive to under promise and over deliver.

We cold wind coils that are used specifically for motorsport applications. We hot wind coils for long life in street driven vehicle applications. Every coil we make at Pedders is fully scragged to permanently set the coil / ride height. Every coil we make at Pedders is placed in a load cell to verify it is withing 2mm of the specified ride height. The industry standard is 15mm. Essentially when you buy a Pedders coil you are buying a race matched set. After 100 miles you'll see no difference in the look of the vehicle and should see little difference after 100 miles or 100,000 miles.

At Pedders we don't ask anyone to buy based on what we post or people say. We make available Pedderised vehicle to provide real life-seat-of-your-own-pants reasons to buy. The bottom line is always in the drive. Contact your local Pedders Dealer to get in a Pedderised LX.

[jhs914]

Skeptics are created when vendors over promise and under deliver. At Pedders we strive to under promise and over deliver.

We cold wind coils that are used specifically for motorsport applications. We hot wind coils for long life in street driven vehicle applications. Every coil we make at Pedders is fully scragged to permanently set the coil / ride height. Every coil we make at Pedders is placed in a load cell to verify it is withing 2mm of the specified ride height. The industry standard is 15mm. Essentially when you buy a Pedders coil you are buying a race matched set. After 100 miles you'll see no difference in the look of the vehicle and should see little difference after 100 miles or 100,000 miles.

At Pedders we don't ask anyone to buy based on what we post or people say. We make available Pedderised vehicle to provide real life-seat-of-your-own-pants reasons to buy. The bottom line is always in the drive. Contact your local Pedders Dealer to get in a Pedderised LX.

Nobody is accusing Pedders springs of settling. The issue with the Nivomats is that after the car is driven, the shocks pump themselves up to the preset ride height. That is what Mike East was talking about. Sorry, but I still don't believe that there is anything magic about a Pedders spring that will prevent the Nivomat from pumping itself back to the preset ride height.

[JusticePete]

Nobody is accusing Pedders springs of settling. The issue with the Nivomats is that after the car is driven, the shocks pump themselves up to the preset ride height. That is what Mike East was talking about. Sorry, but I still don't believe that there is anything magic about a Pedders spring that will prevent the Nivomat from pumping itself back to the preset ride height.
It isn't magic. It is hydraulics, spring rate and coil height. Take your LX to the nearest Pedders Shop. Print this post.

Pedders and insert shop name ________________________ Guarantee our LX / Nivomat solution. If you don't love our 2940 / 2941 coils we will take them off and reinstall your OE coils. We will also REFUND 100% of your money.

Peter G. Basica
President
Pedders USA, LLC

Its is all about the drive and sometimes a money back guarantee.

Having driven SRT 8s with OE dampers and SRT 8s with Pedders Dampers and coils, I would eBay the SRT 8 OE bits and install Pedders faster than I typed this post.

[jhs914]

It isn't magic. It is hydraulics, spring rate and coil height. Take your LX to the nearest Pedders Shop. Print this post.

Pedders and insert shop name ________________________ Guarantee our LX / Nivomat solution. If you don't love our 2940 / 2941 coils we will take them off and reinstall your OE coils. We will also REFUND 100% of your money.

Peter G. Basica
President
Pedders USA, LLC

Its is all about the drive and sometimes a money back guarantee.

Having driven SRT 8s with OE dampers and SRT 8s with Pedders Dampers and coils, I would eBay the SRT 8 OE bits and install Pedders faster than I typed this post.Give me the name of a Pedders dealer in Pensacola, Florida and I'll take you up on it.

[batwood]

That may be a little difficult. Closest one I believe is in Slidell LA.

You in for a little drive?