Aftermarket Speaker Fit Questions

[Scorpx]

I was wondering what size speakers the auio guys in the forum have been using. I am upgrading and am debating between just replacing the fronts with 6x9's or going component speakers. If I go component should I use 5 1/4's(which will require a fabricated piece) or will 6 1/2s fit without cutting? I have not pulled the panels off yet to see what type of mounts are there. Any advice will help. I want to do as little modification as possible so if I get rid of the car in a few years I can DROP the factory stuff back in easily.

[shiltz]

well I haven't actualy replaced the speakers in mine yet, but I will be going with 6 1/2" component speakers, they will fit in a 6x9 opening, you just need an adaptor plate, crutchfield sells pre-made ones if you don't feel like making them yourself too

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3KMF0wGCI3W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=103200&I=142SA69

[henry]

Well since Scorpx seems to have an SXT he may well have the non-Boston audio system. That has 6-1/2" speakers in the doors.
It would be silly to REPLACE those with nasty 6x9 speakers. Upgrade to proper 6-1/2" round speakers - they will sound much better. Use good quality pieces like MB Quart or Focal.

[Jim]

Well since Scorpx seems to have an SXT he may well have the non-Boston audio system. That has 6-1/2" speakers in the doors.
It would be silly to REPLACE those with nasty 6x9 speakers. Upgrade to proper 6-1/2" round speakers - they will sound much better. Use good quality pieces like MB Quart or Focal.


All the documentation says that all the speaker packages have 6x9's in the doors FROM the basic 4 speaker package all the way up to the 6 speaker package in the 300. Where did you read that the SXT has 6.5" speakers?

[henry]

There were some non-Boston systems that came with 6-1/2" speakers in the doors.

I have seen both. There are even web sites with photos of 6-1/2" speakers in the doors. Do a search for it and you'll see.

The service manual says that there are 6x9 speakers in the front doors for all models so that may be the case with current cars.

Henry

[Jim]

There were some non-Boston systems that came with 6-1/2" speakers in the doors.

I have seen both. There are even web sites with photos of 6-1/2" speakers in the doors. Do a search for it and you'll see.

The service manual says that there are 6x9 speakers in the front doors for all models so that may be the case with current cars.

Henry

Hmm, I pulled those sizes FROM TechAuthority... I'm not saying your wrong, I haven't seen one myself so maybe DC changed it after they published their documentation.


http://home.comcast.net/~adaptivesystemdesign/Images/speakers.png

[shiltz]

i've seen one person who had the 4 speaker setup say he had either 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 (forget which off hand) in the front when he changed his speakers, he had posted pictures of it too, looked like it had a 6x9 hole but with an odd looking plastic adaptor that he said was on there FROM the factory, it did look like a factory part not an aftermarket adaptor plate.

[Jim]

i've seen one person who had the 4 speaker setup say he had either 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 (forget which off hand) in the front when he changed his speakers, he had posted pictures of it too, looked like it had a 6x9 hole but with an odd looking plastic adaptor that he said was on there FROM the factory, it did look like a factory part not an aftermarket adaptor plate.

Huh, weird that they would have done that. Must have had a shortage of the 6x9's or a surplus of 6.5" that they wanted rid of... Cool, thanks for setting me straight guys.

[henry]

There are cars with 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. I saw them myself yesterday. (They were base 300's) And I did see photographs of an SXT Magnum with the base stereo with 6-1/2" speakers in the doors a few months ago.

However I can verify that the elisive animal known as 6-1/2" speaker does exist.

In any case, whatever is there should be replaced with a high quality 6-1/2" speaker. 6x9s don't cut it in the sound quality department so if they are there to begin with you should buy or make an adapter plate and install a proper 6-1/2" speaker.

Henry

[gumby]

I had 6-1/2's in the front doors of my magnum. I replaced them with Precision Power 6-1/2's and they sound great. I used the factory plate that fit the 6-1/2 in the 6x9 hole and just trimmed the inside enough to let the new 6-1/2 sit flat.

[ssmith47201]

I have been designing and making speakers for over 20 years. If designed equally well, the 6x 9 should have better bass and also be a little louder since it has more surface area. The key is in the design. I was Chief Engineer at Jensen speakers , then head of engineering at Onkyo speakers until starting my own small speaker company here in Indiana called SEI (Sound Enginering Inc,)

We make custom speakers where you tell us what you want and we will build it for you.
American designed and made...Even make custom dust dap logo's.
Can't wait to get a Magnum SRT-8 for a company car and do a great system.
Saw some cool systems at CES in Vegas.

Check out our website if you wish: www.soundengineeringinc.com

Mopars Previously Owned : 66 440 Charger, 74 Dodge Colt GT, 88 Dodge Grand Caravan, 89 Dodge Colt GT-Turbo, 95 Avenger, 99 300M

[Fred]

How would the pricing of your custom hand designed and manufactured speakers compare to existing commercially available products? Is it at all feasable for you to compete or are we looking at a niche market here?

[Rev.Hammer]

Sooo what are we talking $-wise there Ssmith?

[ssmith47201]

Our prices are about the same or maybe less since there is no middle man. We have been involved throughout our career in designiing/manufacturing both OEM and aftermaket customers. We are a GROUP of 8 FROM engineering and manufacturing backgrounds that have worked for Jensen, Harmon and Onkyo. Our average experience is over 8 years. I was a speaker Engineer at Jensen and left as Chief Engineer 15 years later to lead the engineering GROUP at Onkyo here in Indiana. After a change in ownership, we formed our small company and bought Onkyo equipment and inventory of parts.

We have dsigned / manufactured for AR, Advent, Acura, Chrysler, Eclipse, Ford, GM, Hammond Organ,Honda, JBL, JL Audio, Jensen, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Phase Linear, Rockford-Fosgate, Toyota and Others

We can build or REPAIR almost anything you want ...I can also provide before and after acoustical measurements if you send me a OEM driver.
Guess I should CHECK INTO becoming an official vendor
:wink:

Stan Smith
www.soundengineeringinc.com

[ssmith47201]

I wish I had a Magnum to CHECK out for you. I may do some quick research to see what I can find that will fit. Is there any way for you to tell how much more room you have beyond the OEM driver. If you decide to stay with a 6x9, I'll measure the old one for you, design something better and SHOW you the difference. 50% discount given to the first person to send an old one, since it will assist me in designing a better one that can be offeredto all Magnum owners.

I can also design a 6.5 to beat the 6 x 9 too.

[henry]

The OEM speakers in the LX cars are not hard to improve upon.

The "Boston" 6x9 is just a crappy paper coned tin basket job with a tiny magnet. It would look more at home in a $25 TABLE radio.
The non-Boston 6x9 and the 6-1/2" speakers are even worse (I've seen higher quality speakers in pocket transistor radios).

Most aftermarket speakers, even the cheap ones, would probably outperform the OEM speakers. A high quality 6-1/2" round speaker in place of the factory 6x9 would be an ORDER of magnitude better.
I envision a good 6-1/2" component set in the doors with the tweeters turned way down (like -6 or -8 db down) and a really good 4" component set in the dash. MB Quart and others make true component sets with high quality crossovers that can be mounted coaxially. That would be the best setup for both the front doors and the dash.
Henry

[ssmith47201]

Henry,

I agree that almost any aftermarket speaker should be better than the OEM versions. If the current 6 X 9 opening is large enough for a decent 6 x9, I would put in a beefy 6x9 woofer. I have designed and built several that will provide lower bass than a similiar 6.5". One of the keys is amp power. Speakers with great bass are usually less efficient due to heavier cones and voice coils.

I gree that a component system is best...but If the 6 x9 space is already there...build on that opportunity. We also build our own tweeters here at SEI.
Let me know if I can be of help

Stan
www. soundengineeringinc.com

[henry]

That's fine in terms of bass quantity. However there are too many strange complex cone breakup patterns in a 6x9 cone, whereas the cone flex and breakup properties of a round cone are far more natural and predictable (and easier to compensate for).
Therefore it is far easier for a designer to achieve better sound quality in a round speaker. Theoretically it is possible to get better sound quality FROM an elliptical cone but it costs more and is harder to achieve.

In practical terms, 6x9 cones sound crappy as a general rule.

[Jim]

The OEM speakers in the LX cars are not hard to improve upon.

The "Boston" 6x9 is just a crappy paper coned tin basket job with a tiny magnet. It would look more at home in a $25 TABLE radio.
The non-Boston 6x9 and the 6-1/2" speakers are even worse (I've seen higher quality speakers in pocket transistor radios).

Most aftermarket speakers, even the cheap ones, would probably outperform the OEM speakers. A high quality 6-1/2" round speaker in place of the factory 6x9 would be an ORDER of magnitude better.
I envision a good 6-1/2" component set in the doors with the tweeters turned way down (like -6 or -8 db down) and a really good 4" component set in the dash. MB Quart and others make true component sets with high quality crossovers that can be mounted coaxially. That would be the best setup for both the front doors and the dash.
Henry

Just wanted to point out that a component setup is not the best solution for the doors if you have the upgraded Boston setup. The factory amplifier has a built in cross over so there are no high end frequencies being sent to the door. I'm not sure what the frequency range is but I know when I hooked my MB Quartz components in there I had hardly any sound FROM the 6.5" and the tweeter was completely silent. I'm assuming the opposite is true for the dash speakers but I haven't tested that "theory" yet.

In my experience the factory amplifier isn't going to push enough power through to the doors to really cause that much breakup if a decent speaker is mounted there(not the factory speaker). If a person was replacing the factory amp then I might recommend they upgrade to a nice component setup for the doors. Of course to each his own...

[ssmith47201]

I agree with Henry that 6 x 9 cones are harder to design because of the breakup modes. I have worked with 6 x9 cones since designing Jensen Coax and Triax speakers FROM the early 80's, right after getting my degree in audio engineering. However, the increased cost for a very good 6 x 9 cone is very small. Oval speakers also cost more to produce in general because the manufacturing equipment is more complex. I design and build both. There are some VERY excellant 6x9 designs, some which are used in very good Home Theatre products (recently introduced at CES this month).

It would be my opinion that the best set up would be to use very good 6 x9s as woofers in the doors and mid/tweeters in addition. Can't wait to install a system in an SRT8 Magnum...but I have to get one first! (Saving my pennies)

Stan
www.soundengineeringinc.com

[PixelPusher]

Just wanted to point out that a component setup is not the best solution for the doors if you have the upgraded Boston setup. The factory amplifier has a built in cross over so there are no high end frequencies being sent to the door. I'm not sure what the frequency range is but I know when I hooked my MB Quartz components in there I had hardly any sound FROM the 6.5" and the tweeter was completely silent. I'm assuming the opposite is true for the dash speakers but I haven't tested that "theory" yet.

In my experience the factory amplifier isn't going to push enough power through to the doors to really cause that much breakup if a decent speaker is mounted there(not the factory speaker). If a person was replacing the factory amp then I might recommend they upgrade to a nice component setup for the doors. Of course to each his own...

The guy that installed my system (well .. who fixed & upgraded it after Al & Ed's destroyed it).. built a custom wiring harness thaht combined the various outputs to regain the full range signal & then ran that to my JL amps... Now it sounds incredible along with the DLS iriduium 3 way components that replaced the previous crap sounding MB Quart QSD 216's.. Make sure your installer knows that some work has to be done to get the full range signal back FROM the stock head unit.

I am running the stock head unit (w/Nav) with aftermarket amps and speakers and the improvement over the original sound is like night & day... I almost feel like I'm in my living room blasting my home AV equipment with the wife gone ;)

[Jim]

The guy that installed my system (well .. who fixed & upgraded it after Al & Ed's destroyed it).. built a custom wiring harness thaht combined the various outputs to regain the full range signal & then ran that to my JL amps... Now it sounds incredible along with the DLS iriduium 3 way components that replaced the previous crap sounding MB Quart QSD 216's.. Make sure your installer knows that some work has to be done to get the full range signal back FROM the stock head unit.


Yeah, when you're installing aftermarket amps you really don't have to worry about this problem because you should be splicing INTO the lines running FROM the radio to the amp. At that point the lines have not been crossed over so theres really not anything special you have to do. Glad you're enjoying your stereo, sounds like you've got some nice equipment running! How about some pic's of your install?

[Rx:MagnumQD]

My original idea was to REPLACE the front door speakers with component 6 1/2", the tweeters mounted on the Boston Acoustics triangle panel, and a matching component set in the rear, again with the tweeters positioned separately for good imaging.

Sounds like this wouldn't work because of the crossover issues noted above because I'll loose the high freq FROM the dash. (Unless I REPLACE the amp as well).

Another option is to REPLACE each speaker with a good exact-fit full range speaker at all six locations, all FROM the same manufacturer to assure a good match. How does this sound?

[Jim]

My original idea was to REPLACE the front door speakers with component 6 1/2", the tweeters mounted on the Boston Acoustics triangle panel, and a matching component set in the rear, again with the tweeters positioned separately for good imaging.

Sounds like this wouldn't work because of the crossover issues noted above because I'll loose the high freq FROM the dash. (Unless I REPLACE the amp as well).

Another option is to REPLACE each speaker with a good exact-fit full range speaker at all six locations, all FROM the same manufacturer to assure a good match. How does this sound?

I would still go with the component setup in the rear and a matching 2 way for the dash. For the doors you'll probably have to go with 2 way 6x9's( 1 way if you can find one ) or 6.5" speakers with a mounting plate.

[GaryM]

Just wanted to point out that a component setup is not the best solution for the doors if you have the upgraded Boston setup. The factory amplifier has a built in cross over so there are no high end frequencies being sent to the door. I'm not sure what the frequency range is but I know when I hooked my MB Quartz components in there I had hardly any sound FROM the 6.5" and the tweeter was completely silent. I'm assuming the opposite is true for the dash speakers but I haven't tested that "theory" yet.

This is good info on the Boston system Jim, thanks. Now to find out what the cross-over points are. I don't want to REPLACE my amp, just the speakers to higher quality ones.

[Rx:MagnumQD]

What about the speakers on the dash? Looks like there may be a clearance issue because a quick look on Crutchfield shows only one of their 3 1/2" models will fit, even though there are much better quality models in the 3 1/2" size.

I'd like to hear FROM anyone if they replaced the dash speakers (without significant modification of the openings-although i'm willing to to some trimming or shimming to make it fit.) If there are some good quality 3 1/2" ones that anyone knows will fit, let me know. I'll probably REPLACE all the others with a matching set (all 6).

[Rx:MagnumQD]

Just ran across some 3 1/2" recommendations in the knowledge base (Sould have looked there first - Duhhh!) :shock: Still would like to get some feedback on specific speakers anyone has tried.

[sgthigg]

I got 6 1/2 in my doors stock.. Kept them and hooked up in the rear 2 Rockford Fosgate punch 10"s. Sounds good Now I got to get rid of the rattle..lol