Reflections on LXOM - please take a moment.

[Junior]

I want folks to take a moment and reflect on what the precedent of a vendor winning LXOM honors would mean.

There should be an award for the superb vendors among us. That's something that needs to get worked out amongst us in the time ahead (and soon). There are lots of vendors here, and there are some of those that stand head and shoulders above the rest. There needs to be a way to recognize their contributions to the forums as a group, as well as their contributions to our beloved cars themselves. I can't think of another vendor more deserving of such an honor than Billet Tech.

But if BT wins LXOM this month, not only does that raise issues of fairness (which I'll try to voice below), but it also makes the creation of an appropriate award that much more complicated. Can a vendor be awarded both LXOM and Vendor of the Quarter (or whatever) in the same period? Wouldn't both be diluted by that happening?

Let's make the example different. Let's superimpose a different vendor into this discussion. Let's say that DiabloSport, Inc. was in the running (and let's not pretend that's so far-fetched, once these things come out and everybody's stoked on them). They own an LX, so they qualify there. They have made a huge contribution to our cars and to the forums as a whole. But they are an entity created for the purpose of making money off of us. Nothing at all wrong with that, but I personally feel that LXOM was created for the purpose of honoring those contributors who had nothing but a love for the contribution, i.e. no further motive.


As for fairness:

It's such a blatantly lopsided competition from the start. Members don't have their own forums where folks can sing their praises. The plaudits are spread all around the forums, and it takes "time in service" to come to know a person and their contributions. As has been said before, there are plenty of new folks or casual browsers that are familiar with the name of a vendor, and familiar with their works. There's such an easy knee-jerk reaction to seeing their name, and it's deserved. We know the good vendors from the lousy. But it's much harder for the casual member to discriminate from among the many contributors to this place we love, and LXOM was created with the expressed purpose of honoring those members!


Please consider what it would mean to LXOM as a concept before casting your vote.

[Cam]

Excellent point Jr. I hope the powers to be take this into account.

[1FST4DR]

What makes a good candinate in your eyes for LXOM???Not just a car right?But also the person behind the car.As of right now there are no Vendor of the month awards..So with that being said

BILLET TECH FOR
LXOM!!..Good Luck to both candinates
:beerchug:

[CoolVanilla]

I haven't talked about this at all with the other guys yet, so my comments are my own and as a member, not as a decision maker:

I understand what you're saying Junior, but if I understand correctly, you're concerned about the knee jerk reaction of seeing a familiar name up for vote, yes? But, how did that name get there in the first place? They were nominated by enough people to make the list, which means that there is a very large group of folks that feel affected enough by a vendor who do in fact know the names of many other members.

Not sure I have an opinion yet. The above is just maybe another morsel to chew on in the fairness debate?

[armadillo]

The requirements for the LXOM are that the person drives an LX and has the support of many friends and feels that the person contributes to the forum. I feel that being a vendor should not preclude you from being LXOM, Rev Hammer and Grinner both have been LXOM and both derive income from the members here. All are deserving. I voted for Billit Tech as they have been a great contributor to the site and have added much to our community.

[Junior]

I haven't talked about this at all with the other guys yet, so my comments are my own and as a member, not as a decision maker:
Understood.

I understand what you're saying Junior, but if I understand correctly, you're concerned about the knee jerk reaction of seeing a familiar name up for vote, yes?
I'm more concerned about how a name becomes familiar. Vendors have the deck stacked in their favor from the very outset, in terms of publicity.

But, how did that name get there in the first place? They were nominated by enough people to make the list, which means that there is a very large group of folks that feel affected enough by a vendor who do in fact know the names of many other members.
Vendors are created (their businesses are) for the purpose of selling a product. Their business model is dependent on "affecting people". The individuals among us do it for the love of the thing entirely. I don't mean to suggest that vendors don't have that love for it, or for us. In the case of BT, we know they do. Nor do I say that there are not members who do it for the plaudits - we all know a couple who do.

There are those members who truly have no vested interest in this thing but the common shared experience. And of those, there are a select few who take the time to be on the giving end of that experience...

[Leadfootluke]

What makes a good candinate in your eyes for LXOM???Not just a car right?But also the person behind the car.As of right now there are no Vendor of the month awards..So with that being said

BILLET TECH FOR
LXOM!!..Good Luck to both candinates
:beerchug:


:beerchug::beerchug::beerchug: lol.

Nice writups Junior.

[sixsicksheep]

The fact that they make a profit off of us, and we still think they deserve more should make it quite clear that they are worthy of having the title "LXOM."

[Super T]

Billet Tech owns a Charger, it's out for custom work right now. They're not just a vendor. They drive the same car we do and share the same passion. And I can speak from experience that they go the extra mile and do help customers beyond just answering phones. There's no question that they are just as deserving as anybody else, vendor or not. That's all I got to say about that.

[Charg-um@BMC Performance]

My decision to start the thread to nominate them was made first after I read the rules then thought about the kind of people they are.

I nominated them because I feel they deserve it.

And I don't even have any of their product !!!


(Yet)



Anyway, I am sorry you feel it was an injustice. Usually in a race such as this, the person in second place just wins the following month. I know thats not your point, but both are winners !!!

[bigal470]

In the long run its up to the member to nominate and vote its a fool proof way to pick who has made a difference to the community..when i nominate i could care less about what everyone adds to there signature I look at who I think made the difference and cast my vote. you can change the rules and make a vendor of the month but then your gona have people start in with well why should he get it his car is stock and so and so does just as much and his car is full of mods...so then people will want to have a car of the month, a member of the month, a vendor of the month why not throw in a moderator of the month......just keep it the same and let people cast votes for who effected them for that month! all i see is people saying who has been here the longest with threads from who knows when how does this relate to this months LXOM? anyway just my ramblings.....

[MattRobertson]

Rev Hammer and Grinner both have been LXOM and both derive income from the members here. Hold on there a minute. Thats a bad analogy.

Rev. Hammer got his LXOM right after the great experience we all shared when he got his Charger. He became a vendor long afterwards and was not a vendor when he became LXOM.

Grinner is one of the oldest of the old school, like yourself (you old geezer, you) and as you'll recall, he was a modder sharing his mods and posts with us long before there ever was a Moddin' Art. He became a vendor later.

I agree with Junior. Contributions that make LXOM should be made solely and exclusively as community contributions. Junior's comments about visibility and deck-stacking are spot on.

And I don't want to agree with Junior. The Billet Tech people are great people and great assets to this community. They don't deserve anything but praise -- which they get over and over for their products' on a daily basis throughout this forum (which goes to the visibility and deck stacking again).

They should not have been put in this position.

[1FST4DR]

Isnt our country great???The freedom of speech and the right to vote!!


B.T. FOR LXOM!!!!!

[Bo]

Grinner is one of the oldest of the old school, like yourself (you old geezer, you) and as you'll recall, he was a modder sharing his mods and posts with us long before there ever was a Moddin' Art. He became a vendor later.


In all fairness to Grinner........ he can't be considered "old school" when members like Matt and Armadillo are around! :beerchug:

Good luck to both nominees! :)

--Bo

[MAGFX]

I think BT is one of the best run retail businesses that I have ever dealt with. The folks are great, the products are great and they go out of their way with great service. :rock:

Although ZMagnum's expertise and unselfishness is absolutely PRICELESS! :not_worth

And no matter what the outcome is, this is all good. Maybe later, we can have a "vendor of the year" runoff. :thumbs_u:

7¢ - 4¢ = 2¢±1¢:doh:

[fullofit_]

I voted for Mark, But I am quite biased as he is a very compassionate member that I would recomend all memberst to take a moment to meet if they ever had the chance.

I would have voted for BilletTechnology if I found them the best nominee in the running in my opinion this month. I will vote for either Mark, or BilletTechonology the next time they are up for the honor if they are the best suited in my opinion.

I think that just because you own a business you should not be lost in the shadow of that entity. I look forward to seeing Mark again soon, and In october when we are in Florida I hope to meet Many members. I hope that the fine folks of Billet will be among them.

there have been other business people voted in, I find each to be very fine members here. Member like Grinner, Scott, Paul, fat chance, I suppose I could look a little deeper, but that is not my point.

I think we all know who the true loyal lx owners are. I think we are all informed well enough to make the proper choice. I would not want to see any one of the past winners not have been voted in, and I would not want to see any in the future denied that honor.

all that said,

Mark, you were among the first I ever met here, you are a force like no other I have ever had the honor to know. I wish you luck for that reason.
may the best owner win.

atbndo
full

[boggart]

Throughout the entire process I've cringed at a vendor winning LXOM. I just don't like it and could/would not articulate why. I agree with Junior, he said what I couldn't/wouldn't.

[Jaak]

If nothing else, Mark's been in the running a number of times and lost out. So I think it's finally his turn.

BT is fabulous, absolutely no doubt, and it's their first time up. So I'm good with them cleaning up next month.

Go ZMagnum!

[DMAG]

I haven't talked about this at all with the other guys yet, so my comments are my own and as a member, not as a decision maker:

I understand what you're saying Junior, but if I understand correctly, you're concerned about the knee jerk reaction of seeing a familiar name up for vote, yes? But, how did that name get there in the first place? They were nominated by enough people to make the list, which means that there is a very large group of folks that feel affected enough by a vendor who do in fact know the names of many other members.

Not sure I have an opinion yet. The above is just maybe another morsel to chew on in the fairness debate?

My sentiments as well. I feel bad that some people are so affected by this...when I was counting the nominations it didn't make me flinch to see any name in there (well, I actually got a nomination which did make me flinch). Frankly, I never thought about vendors being in the contest prior to this....which is why you don't see anything regarding it in the rules of the contest. I can see both sides of the argument, my opinion is not the opinion of the masses though (nor is any of the staff's).

To be fair (and just to show both sides), Scott did win LX of the YEAR when he was a vendor. As much as we'd like to say Scott is different (oh heck, he's different alright!), where does the distinction end? The moment your name turns maroon or when you have had enough business? Would I vote for Scott again? Yeah, I would. Would I "cringe"? No. I'd also vote for Josh @ HHP and we doesn't even own an LX. That's the difference some of these members have made on the forums. I also checked the voting records of that contest....some people here apparently have changed their views regarding voting for vendors since then.

On the same note, do we also take staff members out of the contest since they are also more recognizable therefore more susceptible to being voted for? CoolVanilla has won twice and Meister has won previously......again, Staff or members?

Realize, I'm not trying to push anyone either way. But look at the entire picture before making an opinion. Sure its a tough call and there's alot of gray area. But in the end, its what the membership wants, right?

That being said. If it is something the majority feels strongly against, it is something we can talk about AFTER this contest is over. Since there was nothing in the rules against a vendor being in the running...it is staying as is for the remainder of the voting for this month. We are not going to change anything mid-stride because that would cheapen the winner and the contest worse then anything mentioned yet.

[lowriderman3]

Geez guys you act like this happens every month. It does NOT though. And as far as them having advantage because they have their own forum, that has no effect on them. I never go directly to their forum, or any forum in that case. If it is not under "New Post", I will miss it 99% of the time.

And to say they should have never been put in this position, is a direct slap in the face to BT. Let's focus on what is at hand for this month. If there is a problem with the LXOM being a Vendor, start a thread to address it, but PLEASE leave BT's name out of it. Just address it as "vendors" in general. We should be showing respect to both nominee's, and not tarnishing it for them.

B.T. FOR LXOM!!!!!

[1FST4DR]

Geez guys you act like this happens every month. It does NOT though. And as far as them having advantage because they have their own forum, that has no effect on them. I never go directly to their forum, or any forum in that case. If it is not under "New Post", I will miss it 99% of the time.

And to say they should have never been put in this position, is a direct slap in the face to BT. Let's focus on what is at hand for this month. If there is a problem with the LXOM being a Vendor, start a thread to address it, but PLEASE leave BT's name out of it. Just address it as "vendors" in general. We should be showing respect to both nominee's, and not tarnishing it for them.

B.T. FOR LXOM!!!!!






Well said:beerchug:

[HalV48]

I have a question. Is Billet Tech a single person, or more than one?

So isn't LXOM for a member , not members? When Grinner, or the Rev where voted for, they were individuals.

So if BT is a company, wouldn't their 8 or so sponsored members voting for them be a conflict of interest?

[HalV48]

Well said:beerchug:

So why are you crapping on Juniors thread, as you accused me of doing on another forum.

To let you know 1FAST4DR is soliciting votes for BT on SRTdistrict, which I told him I thought it was inappropriate. I am ADMIN there, by the way.

[hawkxp]

While I understand the concern... I would be more concerned about a retroactive response to the current situation.

If after this months LXOM, the powers that be, said, we are going to have a Vendor of the year... or somthing, so no vendors are eligable for LXOM I could understand it... but frankly I would disagree...

Also, I think we need to take into account the fact, that in the last 13 months I have been on here, this is the first time... DMAG/CV has any other vendor (who was a current vendor at the time not Rev/Grin) made it to the final poll?

If not... I say way to go BT, you obviously ar emore then a vendor to a lot of people..

I say let the other Vendors step up... Use BT as an example of someone who is not jsut makin money off of us... but IS ONE OF US...

Frankly... I would love to see Electrofied have at it since he is no longer with HHP... And yes, I think it would of been wrong for a HHP employee to win LXOM :)

Just my 2 bits

[hawkxp]

I have a question. Is Billet Tech a single person, or more than one?

So isn't LXOM for a member , not members? When Grinner, or the Rev where voted for, they were individuals.

So if BT is a company, wouldn't their 8 or so sponsored members voting for them be a conflict of interest?

Your probably right on the conflict of interest... however... when you get 98 votes... that means a lot also

[1FST4DR]

So why are you crapping on Juniors thread, as you accused me of doing on another forum.

To let you know 1FAST4DR is soliciting votes for BT on SRTdistrict, which I told him I thought it was inappropriate. I am ADMIN there, by the way.


HAL,
I could give a crap if you were JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY OVER THERE!!!!!

What are you in high school??NA,NA,NA,???

[HalV48]

HAL,
I could give a crap if you were JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY OVER THERE!!!!!

What are you in high school??NA,NA,NA,???

I rest my case.

Someone sponsored by BT.

[1FST4DR]

I rest my case.

Someone sponsored by BT.


I rest MY case.The worlds oldest 9th grader..:roll:

[DMAG]

Enough. Good grief.

[MomsR/T]

I try not to give my oppinions outside my cage anymore.........

BUT..........

Grinner and Scott deserved LXOM................businesses or not............I want to explain a couple of things.

Profit?

What the hell is that?

I don't remember seeing Grinner's house on MTV's Cribs or hearing how Scott was rolling around in cash............

We at FRI have worked practicly every single weekend for the past 8-9 months and Steve's vacation time this year went to build parts........

My frequent flier miles went to take my wife to E-Town with me to support our customers as they raced.....................then we spent what little money we had to fly us to Perry for SHindig for the same......

We've never taken a dime yet worked endlessly to provide parts because we love the hobby / sport / addiction...........

I saw Grinner sell his car to keep going with his passion and now I'm prob going to loose mine for the same thing................it takes all the money you DON'T have to make products because you are the pennical of the hobby / sport / addiction.

And for the record..................Scott and Grinner WON LXOM and I, as a vendor, was nominated before..................and no one ever had an issue with it.

DO I support BT being nominated?

Hell yeah.........

And I think more Vendors should be considered............

What about Jason moving from West coast to East coast to have this hobby / sport / addiction become a GREATER part of his life?

What about STU doing a TON of R&D and doing all he's done to help people scrwed by another vendor?

WHat about Jeremy who used a TON of his own money to achieve his dreams?

I think if you (the common public) knew half the story about what it takes to do what we vendors do, you'd nominate more of us.............

I don't even know if I voted and I don't know the story behind BT...............but I know what it takes and I respect anyone willing to lay it all on the line and give it their best.

(((((stepping off pulpit))))

[thewagon]

Very good arguments on both sides of the coin.


Now just do everyone a favor please and vote for


Z.

You ALL KNOW you want to

[sixsicksheep]

I have a question. Is Billet Tech a single person, or more than one?

So isn't LXOM for a member , not members? When Grinner, or the Rev where voted for, they were individuals.

So if BT is a company, wouldn't their 8 or so sponsored members voting for them be a conflict of interest?


BilletTechnology = Heidi.

Unless she has Dan or some one else come on and explain a product. So it is one person that we are voting for.

It's not a conflict of interest. BT never asked for any votes, nor made any suggestion that they wanted to be LXOM.

:boohoo:

[HalV48]

BilletTechnology = Heidi.

Unless she has Dan or some one else come on and explain a product. So it is one person that we are voting for.

It's not a conflict of interest. BT never asked for any votes, nor made any suggestion that they wanted to be LXOM.

:boohoo:

Thank's for the clarification.

Grinner, RevHammer, MomsR/T, etc are easy to see as an individual. I looked at BT as I would PPP, or FRI. And they all have there own member name outside of the business name.

[lowriderman3]

Enough. Good grief.
DMAG has spoken, so why not close this thread now.

[MattRobertson]

CoolVanilla has won twice and Meister has won previously......again, Staff or members?
I'd have a real hard time seeing CV or Meister as staff and not members. They both started out as members and they still are. And didn't they both win LXOM before they became moderators? Certainly CV's first of two wins came before he turned to the Dark Side.

The same goes for the Rev. While he clearly is viewed as a vendor now, that was not always the case, and I think it really was not back when he won LXOY. He didn't get the 'never leaves' slot because he was hawking his wares. He earned our friendship -- or stumbled into it maybe -- as himself, a crazy schmoe ... who drove a Ford.

I think this whole thing sucks. Its bad all around having to articulate something like this as I *really* like the BT people and don't want to be doing anything that takes away from that, but this situation forces such a thing.

[IDD]

The winner of LXOM this month, will have less than 1% of the total member's votes!

Keep it in perspective.

[MattRobertson]

DMAG has spoken, so why not close this thread now.
Thats probably not the worst idea in the world. We've all heard both sides. Maybe close it but don't abyss it?

[cadzilla74]

TehKing has got to be getting close to bagging this thread ... it's getting wayyy too political ... BT got nominated ... vote for whoever/whatever you want...congratulate the winner.... lather, rinse, repeat next month.

[Hemi RT]

The requirements for the LXOM are that the person drives an LX and has the support of many friends and feels that the person contributes to the forum. I feel that being a vendor should not preclude you from being LXOM, Rev Hammer and Grinner both have been LXOM and both derive income from the members here. All are deserving. I voted for Billit Tech as they have been a great contributor to the site and have added much to our community.

In your response, you said "Billit Tech as THEY have been a great contributor to the site". Now my question is this - Whom is getting the award - The Company or a Person as it looks like the company?

If Billet Tech is nominated I think it should be a person of Billet Tech and NOT the company name; and that person should own the LX and be a member here without any advertising in the SIG from a company.

Just my opinion

[Junior]

Before this thread gets closed (if it needs to be), let me do a little personal house-cleaning...

I never meant for this to become a discussion of whether BT deserved it or not - I was very careful in all my posts to point out how I feel about them personally and as a business: absolutely first-class all the way.

Nor did I ever suggest that as a vendor, they should be disqualified. If there were a rule change down the road, AFTER a suitable vendor award was created, then I would agree with that. Nobody wants them to be ineligible this month; I agree with DMAG, that would be a farce.

I do feel that the current scenario points to a larger problem that has not evidenced itself yet. In the original post, I purposely used the hypothetical example of DiabloSport, Inc. to illustrate the point. If they were the vendor in contention this month, a lot of the arguments made recently about voting for the individual would immediately be null and void. We know Heidi and Ken and Dan, we love them, and they like us too! But what if a vendor that simply has a great product (ala Predator) were to win LXOM? What then? I'm really not sure.

But to me, as stated clearly in the first post, the largest problem here is the fact that from a publicity standpoint, any vendor has a HUGE advantage over any member. I won't restate it here, I think it's plenty clear in post #1. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but it seemed from some of the comments here, that folks hadn't even read the first post...

So that's all... except to say that I wish I weren't in the position I find myself, championing a cause which by its very nature is arguing against my friends.



.

[lowriderman3]

They won't win, if WE do not nominate them, and if WE do not vote for them.

[DMAG]

Thats probably not the worst idea in the world. We've all heard both sides. Maybe close it but don't abyss it?

So it is written, so it shall be done.