Air Fuel Meters and Data Logging

[RobAGD]

Ok after a lot of PDF reading here is what I have on the WB controlers listed above :

Zeitronix ZT-2 - Base (http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm) $279 ( No Display ) w/ Display $399 Order page (http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm)

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt-2kit2-250.jpg

http://www.zeitronix.com/theone4.jpg

Pros
Anaglog WB Out
Serial Out for Datalogging
Inputs - RPM, TPS, Boost/Vac, EGT
Warning Out
Programing Lambda switch point - Can force lean/stock/rich conditions

Cons
Display is kind of expensive


PLX SM-AFR (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/sm/afr/) - Base $195 ( No Display ) w/ DM-5 Display (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm5/afrsmcombo/) $269

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/sm/afr/smafr.jpg

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm5/afrsmcombo/dm5smafr.jpg

Pros
No Calibration
2 Analog Outs - Sims Narrow Band for factory Bung use
Serial Out for Datalogging
No Heat Shield

Cons
No Display on base unit
Requires using filtering Caps ( maybe not a con )
No Calibration - accuracy issues ? (unknown)

PLX M-300 - $315 (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/m300/)

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/m300/M300.jpg

Pros
Simple setup
WB Analog Out
Narrow Analog Out
Replaces Factory Narrow
No Calibration
No Heat Shield

Cons
simple display
lack of some features
No Calibration -Accuracy issues ? (unknown)

PLX R-300 (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/r300/) - $450 w/o G Sensor $530 with

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/r300/R300.jpg

Pros
Neeto Nifty Dash Hawk like Display
No Heat Sheild
No Calibrations
WB and Narrow Analog outs
Replace Factory Narrow
Accepts a G Meter sensor ( Oh Matt..... :D )

Cons
Price
No Calibration -Accuracy issues ? (unknown)

PLX R-500 (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/r500/) $579 w/o G Sensor w/o EGT $720 with Both

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/r500/R500.jpg

Features:
Analyze fuel maps
Analyze timing maps
Advanced engine health monitoring
6 Fully customizable gauges
90 Minutes data logging
Real-time dyno
Stand alone engine management system interface
Piggyback fuel system interface
Interface with data loggers
Stock narrowband sensor replacement


Innovate LC-1 (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php)

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/images/LC_1.jpg

Pros
2 Analong Outs
Sims Narrow to ECM
Analog out Startuo Voltage control for stock narrow replacments
Setting sample speeds

Cons
Heat Shield
Calibration
Extra Wiring
No Display

FJO Model CWC400x (http://www.fjoracing.com/products/WBAFR/index.php)

http://www.fjoracing.com/images/kwb4001_large.jpg

Features
Data log up to 8 AFR channels simultaneously
Sensing range from 10:1 to 20:1 AFR for gasoline
Accuracy better than 0.1 AFR over the range 10.5:1 to 15.5:1
Sampling rate greater than 250 per second
2 channel programmable AFR voltage output for use with ECU or datalogger
Serial output for display(s) or datalogging
Tach input from 0 to 20,000 RPM
Comprehensive analysis software
Replaceable sensor harness
-40° to +85°C [-40 to +185 °F] ambient operating temperature range
Dash-mounted AFR displays
Multi-sensor support (NTK and Bosch sensors)
High speed FJO Digital Data Bus for expansion

OK here are my thoughts on this :

Pros
Output programable 0-1, 0-5, .5-4.5, 1-0, 5-0, 4.5-.5
Digital Port can suport Logging and guage
Programable Custom Curves
Rugged designs
Solid SW Package

Cons
One of the outputs is factory locked to the FJO Legacy and is not workable with much else
From reading the manual this is not as friendly as some other unit
Limited vs other systems

AEM 30-4100 Gugae Type UEGO Controler (http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67) - $350

http://www.aempower.com/images/categories/d7a7e743-9297-4035-a0e9-d583f68561e6.jpg

Features
Ideal AFR monitoring tool for EFI and carbureted applications, and engine dynamometers
Does not oscillate AFR reading like narrow band sensors
No laptop required for monitoring!
Bosch sensor included
Accurate to 0.1 AFR
Reads in AFR or Lambda via a switch in back of gauge housing
24 Color-coded LED display lights provide immediate reference to engine’s air/fuel ratio (AFR) or Lambda ratio
Integrated three-digit display reveals AFR or Lambda in real time
User-programmable 0-5v analog output included for use with data loggers and virtually any engine management system
Serial data stream included for output of AFR (RS 232)



Pros
Has Display/Guage
Has 0-5v Out good for DH w/ HE

Cons
No Narrow band out
Have to make your own cable for Datalogging
Very Basic logging
Must use AEM O2 Sensors (?) stated in FAQ,

AEM 30-2300 Dual Channel Controler (http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=81) Dual - $600 Single $400

http://www.aempower.com/images/products/302300.jpg

http://www.aempower.com/images/categories/1fb2d6e5-4294-4b6c-8672-607e53cee07a.jpg

Features:

Ideal for use with virtually any aftermarket programmable engine management system
Accurate to 0.1 AFR
Available in single- or dual-channel models
BOSCH sensor(s) included
0-5v calibrated output with 0-1v secondary output available to eliminate trouble codes
Reads as rich as 0.55 Lambda
Extruded aluminum enclosure
Laptop or AEM UEGO Display Gauge required for monitoring

Pros
Each Channel has 0-5 & 0-1v for Narrow replacment & logging
Small Size
Dual Channel COntroler

Cons
Still needs guage
Very Basic
Must use AEM O2 Sensors (?) stated in FAQ,

Fast Dual Sensor A/F Monitor (http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products/details/meter/over.asp) - Dual $390 Single $290

Fast Manual (http://www.fastefi.com/Instructions/170450.html)

http://www.fastefi.com/Base/Images/instruction/170450_1.jpg

Pro
The single Sensor can be upgraded to dual
Built in logger w/ Play Back 50 min single 25 min dual
Outputs for External Datalogger
Narrow Band Replacment on Pre OBDII

Cons
No OBDII Narrow support
Lack of options

This is not 100% and some of these are more of an intrest to me and I was reading manual at work while actually trying to work so take what I have here with a grain or two of salt.

Of those listed here to datalog you will need a PDA or laptop, I think the exception os the PLX R-500. Most of these come with datalogging software and cables for connection to the laptop.

-Robert

PS - I'll be reading some more manuals, tonight and tomorrow and update those that I have only listed features.

[RobAGD]

Reserved for Data loggers

-R

Harrison Reachearch (http://www.obdscan.net/canscan.htm)

MSD Dash Hawk (http://www.dashhawk.com)

Super Chips Flash Paq (http://www.flashpaq.com)

Autoenginuity (http://www.autoenginuity.com/products.html)

OBDII Automotive Diagnostics (http://www.obddiagnostics.com/)

[RobAGD]

Reserved for Break downs and Systems

-R

[InferAl]

The question was brought up to me today on the PLX no calibration and how it could stay calibrated and not loose some calibration over time. I called and asked but all they would say is that never needs to be calibrated. Does anyone have any thoughts on this

[InferAl]

Just was reading this but I just got started and have to go to work but it sounds like a interesting debate
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1627

[RobAGD]

I just printed out 3 more manuals tonight, I hope to have some stuff added to this tomorrow or friday.

-R

[InferAl]

Hey Rob how did those new A/F pan out

[RobAGD]

Al been real busy and I did a M&G Sunday....

I am hoping mnore work Tuesday and Wed if I can keep the out off school kids away :)

-R

[LouZ]

Bump......getting closer to getting something......anything new?

[RobAGD]

Lou - its going to come down to a few small things.

The PLX has the best display and will work down the road for data logging

If you want something real simple the AEM isnt a bad unit and its just a very basic setup with a Guage.

Cam went with the DM-100 w/ AFR, EGT and Sensor Pod. This will also data log those 4 items buts its not cheap but it comes with one hell of a display.

The Dash Hawk is still the best logger for the money, The Auto Ingunity is very nice but you have to pay extra for the DCX PIDs etc but its also a lot stronger package.

-R

[RobAGD]

**bumb**

[HEMIDIABLO]

what about the wideband commander from dynojet? it seems like a pretty complete kit

[RobAGD]

HD - it is, it wasnt about when I did this list.

I have another post that explains more about what I have going on right now.

Take a look, they are do the job, that all have differnt feature sets.

The DynoJet kit looks good. I would love it if someone would send me one to take a look at try out and test :)

-R

[Super T]

AEM 30-2300 Dual Channel Controler (http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=81) Dual - $600 Single $400

http://www.aempower.com/images/products/302300.jpg

http://www.aempower.com/images/categories/1fb2d6e5-4294-4b6c-8672-607e53cee07a.jpg

Features:

Ideal for use with virtually any aftermarket programmable engine management system
Accurate to 0.1 AFR
Available in single- or dual-channel models
BOSCH sensor(s) included
0-5v calibrated output with 0-1v secondary output available to eliminate trouble codes
Reads as rich as 0.55 Lambda
Extruded aluminum enclosure
Laptop or AEM UEGO Display Gauge required for monitoring

Pros
Each Channel has 0-5 & 0-1v for Narrow replacment & logging
Small Size
Dual Channel COntroler

Cons
Still needs guage
Very Basic
Must use AEM O2 Sensors (?) stated in FAQ,

Used one of these with a Performance Electronics PCM on a Honda F3 motor... not a bad product.

[Bubba's Dragon]

This is a nice article with some intresting stuff. Im thinking about the PLX-R500.. What add ons should I get?

[jaak]

Just was reading this but I just got started and have to go to work but it sounds like a interesting debate
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1627

That's a great read!!!!

If you understand what's being said in that thread, the Innovate is definately a better solution. If you read it and get lost and don't know what some of what's discussed, then the PLX is better, 'cause you'll likely funk up the Innovate by doing something wrong.

Innovate's way of treating the O2 sensor is definately more accurate, but it requires you to understand why you do what you do with it. If you don't understand, you could potentially set it up wrong and end up with less accuracy than the PLX. So the sophistication of the user will determine actual performance.

I like the PLX display better. Pretty colours, cool display.... EGT sensor...
I like the accuracy of the Innovate better.

Both based on observations of how they measure, from these and other discussions.

Damn tough choice!!!!

I'll see how my innovate works out, first and if it's a PITA, then I'm likely going to buy a PLX. If it works well, I'll then I'll stick with it. (It's so tempting to buy both... LOL!)

[rander]

Hey jaak, did you install the latest crom file that includes datalogging? Does it work now with the predator plugin?

That's a great read!!!!

If you understand what's being said in that thread, the Innovate is definately a better solution. If you read it and get lost and don't know what some of what's discussed, then the PLX is better, 'cause you'll likely funk up the Innovate by doing something wrong.

Innovate's way of treating the O2 sensor is definately more accurate, but it requires you to understand why you do what you do with it. If you don't understand, you could potentially set it up wrong and end up with less accuracy than the PLX. So the sophistication of the user will determine actual performance.

I like the PLX display better. Pretty colours, cool display.... EGT sensor...
I like the accuracy of the Innovate better.

Both based on observations of how they measure, from these and other discussions.

Damn tough choice!!!!

I'll see how my innovate works out, first and if it's a PITA, then I'm likely going to buy a PLX. If it works well, I'll then I'll stick with it. (It's so tempting to buy both... LOL!)

[GotMe-N-R/T]

That's a great read!!!!

If you understand what's being said in that thread, the Innovate is definately a better solution. If you read it and get lost and don't know what some of what's discussed, then the PLX is better, 'cause you'll likely funk up the Innovate by doing something wrong.

Innovate's way of treating the O2 sensor is definately more accurate, but it requires you to understand why you do what you do with it. If you don't understand, you could potentially set it up wrong and end up with less accuracy than the PLX. So the sophistication of the user will determine actual performance.

I like the PLX display better. Pretty colours, cool display.... EGT sensor...
I like the accuracy of the Innovate better.

Both based on observations of how they measure, from these and other discussions.

Damn tough choice!!!!

I'll see how my innovate works out, first and if it's a PITA, then I'm likely going to buy a PLX. If it works well, I'll then I'll stick with it. (It's so tempting to buy both... LOL!)
Hey in one of your threads I thought you stated that you didn't have a gauge for your innovate. If that's true how do you know what's is going on? I am leaning towards the innovate also. Where did you or anybody else weld the new bung for the sensor?

[Wetcoast]

Hey in one of your threads I thought you stated that you didn't have a gauge for your innovate. If that's true how do you know what's is going on? I am leaning towards the innovate also. Where did you or anybody else weld the new bung for the sensor?

From what I've been reading the Narrow band simulator from the widebands (specifically the Innovative) can be wired in place of the stock O2 sensor to feed the PCM and just use the stock O2 sensor location for your wideband sensor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[RobAGD]

After doing more reading, I am not real jazzed with how you have to hook in to the factory loom to do the Narrow Band sim.

They typically want you to tab the wires as close to the PCM as you can manage, and I dont like getting into wiring in these cars given how picky they can be.

Now if I could just add a plug and plug in at the sensor location it would all be good, but thats not how they tell you to do it :( So given that, just drop the down pipe and weld in a bung.

-R

[Wetcoast]

After doing more reading, I am not real jazzed with how you have to hook in to the factory loom to do the Narrow Band sim.

They typically want you to tab the wires as close to the PCM as you can manage, and I dont like getting into wiring in these cars given how picky they can be.

Now if I could just add a plug and plug in at the sensor location it would all be good, but thats not how they tell you to do it :( So given that, just drop the down pipe and weld in a bung.

-R

But on these PCM's there is no current carrying on the O2 sensor wire so voltage drop should not be a worry. The only thing that would be a concern is noise and from what I've heard the only thing narrow bands do is signify an AFR close to 14.7 like a digital on off signal.

Maybe we can find the plug and pin from the LX parts book to adapt the narrow band output from the controllers to plug it right in. It just seems so nice to keep things tidy this way. The way that Innovative talks on their forum I'm assuming the narrow band out put is more than accurate enough or they would make it available :wink:

It's a programmable output too! If anyone has done some logging of stock O2 sensor voltage vs. wideband A/F readings we'd really be in business. That way you could program the narrowband sim to match the characteristics of the stock sensor.

[Wetcoast]

Does anyone have the manufacturer of the stock sensor to find a data sheet, or better yet a data sheet on the sensor?

[Fast56k]

I know someone with an innovate AF guage and they are on their 3rd or 4th one. Seems they are very tempermental.

C.

[Rev.Hammer]

We have any vendors with the Dynojet AFR?

[RobAGD]

I belive that James at Promotion Tuning carries them, BCM Performance has them and I think 402 also carries them.

-R

[Fast56k]

What about this sniper? I can't make up my mind.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sniper-Tuning-Air-Fuel-Wideband-02-Sensor-with-Logging_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33557QQihZ012QQ itemZ220171057531QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

C.

[GotMe-N-R/T]

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=89065

[Fast56k]

Nice thing about the sniper is it can be free air calibrated like the innovate. It can also data log.

C.

[jaak]

After doing more reading, I am not real jazzed with how you have to hook in to the factory loom to do the Narrow Band sim.

They typically want you to tab the wires as close to the PCM as you can manage, and I dont like getting into wiring in these cars given how picky they can be.

Now if I could just add a plug and plug in at the sensor location it would all be good, but thats not how they tell you to do it :( So given that, just drop the down pipe and weld in a bung.

-R

In theory it wouldn't be tough to just hack an O2 extension, but considering the reliability reports on the Innovate, I'd hate to see the car go in to fault, because of an aftermarket wideband.

I'm welding the bung and using the Innovate. If it dies, I'll likely buy something else, but if it keeps going, I'm pleased with the potential.

Fingers crossed. Heck, it's only money!

[chasb]

What;s the scoop on data logging with that,?

[Fast56k]

In theory it wouldn't be tough to just hack an O2 extension, but considering the reliability reports on the Innovate, I'd hate to see the car go in to fault, because of an aftermarket wideband.

I'm welding the bung and using the Innovate. If it dies, I'll likely buy something else, but if it keeps going, I'm pleased with the potential.

Fingers crossed. Heck, it's only money!

Please Please Please be very careful leaving the power off if you plug or unplug the innovate. Talk to Meister. He can give you the whole scoop.

C.