255/55-18 Toyo Proxes ST

[joseph]

I got my new tires thanks to a nice tax refund ($1000+), they are great, look tough, are M&S rated, diameter of 28.50, I put a tire on my scale and they only weigh 33.4 lbs. each, pretty damn good for that size, that's KDW2 and GS-D3 territory, only cost me $119.40 each plus shipping http://www.tires-easy.com/start.html and $60 to install at my local flat repair shop, they put new short valves and they put the balancing weights inside the rim, so they are invisible.
While I was at the flat repair place, I weighed a stock 18 RT rim and they only weigh 22.2 lbs. each, which is pretty light.
The Proxes ST have a max inflation of 50 psi. and before I left the shop, I set them all to 36 psi.
They are very quiet, very smooth, my steering feels like it's riding on clouds, less effort to turn. I had the eagle LS2 before, they had no traction, they were hard and noisy, and weren't worth a damn in the rain.
I still have to drive the Proxes ST in the rain and on the highway around 75mph to see if they are still quiet at speeds and if they grip in the rain.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/th_100_1662.jpg (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/100_1662.jpg)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/th_100_1663.jpg (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/100_1663.jpg)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/th_100_1664.jpg (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/pjosephlv/Tires/100_1664.jpg)

[joseph]

I drove on the freeway, very, very quiet, went to the carwash, wet tires, I stepped on hit hard when I got out (drive -thru wash), it held up great, ESP didn't even intervene, now I need some real rain and try 3/4 and WOT, and take hard turns to see when they break loose.

[FloridaRT]

Good write up, thanks for sharing. I like the thread pattern better than my BFG KDW's...........and they are cheaper to boot.

Bob

[06SilverSteel]

good lookin tires there.....awaiting the wet weather report.

[Glazeworld]

I've had a pair of Proxies (255/55/18) on the rear of my RT since December, and forget the rain (they did well), they are awesome in the snow (not an AWD RT). We had a nasty ice storm this week, and I was able to get up the hills in my neighborhood that others failed miserably trying to climb. Just this week, I had the other pair of Proxies installed (to get rid of the worn GY Assurance's from the front) and the ride is even better.

I share Joseph's views on these tires. After 4000 miles on the rears, they have great all weather traction, they're solid in the bad weather (provided you don't drive like an idiot), and they're quieter than my old Goodyears. I only have about 300 miles on the fronts (which were actually rotated to the rears) and the car got even quieter.

I purchased my tires at Tire Discounters (nationwide stores). They were $174, and with the road hazzard, they were $410/pair after taxes and gov't disposal fees.

Overall, I am very pleased with these tires. I think the extra width and tread pattern goes a long way to giving great all season tires. There's even icing on the cake. According to other threads in this wonderful forum, these tires will last longer than a year (I drive about 25k miles/year) and should make it well into the 40Ks!

[Deep Lava]

I drove on the freeway, very, very quiet, went to the carwash, wet tires, I stepped on hit hard when I got out (drive -thru wash), it held up great, ESP didn't even intervene, now I need some real rain and try 3/4 and WOT, and take hard turns to see when they break loose.

Be careful! Mine suck in the rain. I can get squirrelly even at 70+mph with only moderate throttle. (Squirrelly = a$$ end breaks loose and starts to involuntary lane change!) From a stop, forget about it. Instant wheel spin with anything above 2000rpm. Oddly, they handle and brake well in the rain. On dry payment, excellent tire. Drove in the snow this morning and they faired well, all things considered.

[joseph]

Be careful! Mine suck in the rain. I can get squirrelly even at 70+mph with only moderate throttle. (Squirrelly = a$$ end breaks loose and starts to involuntary lane change!) From a stop, forget about it. Instant wheel spin with anything above 2000rpm. Oddly, they handle and brake well in the rain. On dry payment, excellent tire. Drove in the snow this morning and they faired well, all things considered.

The other guy said they're great in the rain and snow and you say they suck, are you sure they were properly installed and not facing the wrong way?

[BToohey44]

I had a set of these on my Mustang and while I was skeptical at first they turned out to be pretty good tires. Great in the rain, almost no sideways action unless I really wanted it (i.e. no surprises) however, I never got to test them in the snow.

I will say one thing (which others have confirmed) these Conti's that I got on the R/T rims I bought suck ass. I need to get these things off quick.

Looking at the Coopers and Goodyear Assurance.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[joseph]

I was looking at many tires and read many reviews, and this is what I deducted:
1) Kdw2: great traction dry/wet, not worth a dime in snow and many reported them as being noisy and hard, but inexpensive, about $100.
2) GS-D3: best tires ever in dry/wet, not for snow, very expensive, cheapest I've seen were $200+ each.
3) general grabber, good review, good in dry and wet, but not all season, bad in snow, highest speed ratings, and very inexpensive, cheapest I've seen them were about $103 or so.
4) then, I saw theToyo S/T, great ratings, great numbers, light weight, good speed rating, good load rating, mud and snow rated (only tire with that rating), very aggressive thread, look like they kick a*s just by looking at them and make the car look great overall, very deep tread, very sticky, now when I floor it I just take off, no ESP intervention, and when I saw them priced at only $120, I just forgot about all the other tires, this is the best compromise in price, looks, dry/wet/snow performance, just very happy with my purchase.

[Bubba's Dragon]

I have the same tires but they are a few years old.. They dont grip so well when I jam on the gas with ESP off but they sound nice though.
Actually good tires no problems need to check the air pressure... 36psi correct?

[joseph]

36 psi, that's what I use, 50 is max psi, do 32 if you'd like or 40 or 45, it's up to you.
All you need is to find a good compromise between max tolerable presssure and comfort.

[Deep Lava]

The other guy said they're great in the rain and snow and you say they suck, are you sure they were properly installed and not facing the wrong way?

Thats what I thought after the first time I went sideways in the rain. Checked and the tires are rotating the correct way. However, I might be asking to much from the tires. She's a torquey beast and I'm putting down a lot of power to the rear wheels. Even on dry pavement, I can rip them loose with a 30mph punch and chirp them with a 65mph punch. With the stock conti's, I couldn't do much of anything due to constant wheel spinage. The Proxes' are definitely better than the stock conti's, the price was right, and I love that tread pattern!
** NOTE: In the same motion that I turn the key, I always "disable" ESP. Exceptions: Rain, Snow & Ice **

[BToohey44]

Thats what I thought after the first time I went sideways in the rain. Checked and the tires are rotating the correct way. However, I might be asking to much from the tires. She's a torquey beast and I'm putting down a lot of power to the rear wheels. Even on dry pavement, I can rip them loose with a 30mph punch and chirp them with a 65mph punch. With the stock conti's, I couldn't do much of anything due to constant wheel spinage. The Proxes' are definitely better than the stock conti's, the price was right, and I love that tread pattern!
** NOTE: In the same motion that I turn the key, I always "disable" ESP. Exceptions: Rain, Snow & Ice **

Well with my mighty powerful 2.7l wheel spinage is such a problem. I can barely leave a stop light with out burning out...

Yeah, I don't have the wheel spinning problems, but judging by the reviews I read online and here I may try them out.

[MattRobertson]

The other guy said they're great in the rain and snow and you say they suck, are you sure they were properly installed and not facing the wrong way?
I'm not sure what kind of wheels he has (18's or 20's) but what he reports is not unique by any stretch for the Proxes ST in a 255/45/20. I loved mine until the first time I had them on a rainy street and HOLY COW! It was as if they were greased. ANY throttle at all it seemed would cause the back end to break loose. After having that happen a few times I drove scared but did try and push it a tad as a test. Strangely they could take corners decently if I applied zero throttle, and it seemed as if, on a corner during braking, they also had no problems. But by this time I was not inclined to try anything severe so we are talking gentle amounts of yaw and brake power.

Now, over time this went away. The tires wore in somehow and their rain performance went from frightening to ok after a few thousand miles. CoolVanilla had the same expierience I did IIRC.

Their snow performance was acceptable or a 255-width tire, as long as you kept moving and didn't try to back up a gentle incline (I did and had to push the car over the crest of the hill, then jump in before it rolled down. No fun).

I wouldn't buy that tire again. Went to RS-A's next and will probably try the Falkens next.

[joseph]

that's how my crappy eagle LS2 used to behave in the rain, lightest throttle and it would act as if it was snow.
I'll report on the toyos when it rains here.

[Glazeworld]

I'm that "other guy". I'm running 255/55 on the stock 18" R/T rim. The salesman told me that they'd be a little slippery until I broke them in. For the first couple of days. they were a little slippery, but they got a lot of traction after that. I had a pair of the Proxies on the rears, and last week, I had those moved up to the front, and a brand new pair of Proxies put on the back. We've had snow on the roads just about all week, and I noticed that I lost a bit of traction when the new tires were put on (compared to the Proxies that had 2k miles), but on the second day, the traction returned. These tires probably won't win me any autocrosses, but for my day to day driving, I am quite pleased with them.

[MattRobertson]

I actually had good experience with the Proxes on dry roads in hard cornering. They were very noisy (as in chirping and squealing in hard cornering) but, for a hard rubber 420-treadwear tire they handle well. Which means this is not the tire you should be using to drive hard. The 255/45/20 is a 33-lb tire and the GY RS-A is 26 lbs and 260 treadwear. Going to a lighter tire made for a very noticeable improvement in road feel (The Proxes and many in these sizes have reinforced sidewalls and are essentially truck tires and meant for an SUV), and the slightly narrower width (245) gave a surprising improvement in steering for such a small difference.

Thats the big thing worrying me about changing from the RS-A's to the Falkens. They have reinforced sidewalls, are a heavy tire at 33 lbs and are a 255 width. But they also have a 300 treadwear vs. 260 and get rave reviews for performance so I hope the folks who are singing their praises really use them like they think they do.

The BFG KDWS (not the KDW2) is a 245-width tire for an 18-inch wheel that got a lot of favorable press in the early days when we had not so many choices. I wonder how its still faring.

[joseph]

Matt:
1) What's wrong with reinforced sidewalls, isn't that a good thing to have stong tires?
2) 245 what 50, 55, 60/18? How much would a toyo proxes S/T in 245 18 weight?

[MattRobertson]

1) What's wrong with reinforced sidewalls, isn't that a good thing to have stong tires?

Depends on what you want. Reinforced sidewalls make for great durability. Their purpose is to basically shore up the tire when its holding up a 2-ton-plus land yacht, or a loaded pickup truck. I learned to appreciate reinforced sidewalls when I found I had a slow leak in one of my tires. The heavier sidewalls let me get to the tire shop with a lot less air than a passenger-class tire would have needed.

But reinforced sidewalls make the tire less responsive. A truck tire (Toyo categorizes the Proxes S/T as a light truck/SUV tire) is not the best sport performance tire and if you want to drive it like you stole it, the harder sidewalls hurt your cornering. Also they had a lot of weight. Thats most of the reason why my Toyos weighed 33 lbs and my RS-A's weigh 26. 7 lbs of unsprung weight per wheel out of the picture. Couple that to forged wheels that are a hair lighter than the 22 lb stockers and I'm pretty happy


2) 245 what 50, 55, 60/18? How much would a toyo proxes S/T in 245 18 weight?
The next size down from the reported 255/55/18 (Toyo's Proxes s/t specs and sizes are here (http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/product_spec.asp?lpid=35&name=Proxes%20S/T%99&category=lgt)) is the 255/45/18, which specs to 30 lbs according to Toyo. Cheap way to lower your car half an inch :-)

Its tough to get tires for these cars that weigh less than that. I moved to 20" wheels in part to get more tire choices. I still have only a very few more, though.

[Fred]

Uhh last I checked, we are 2 tons and we DO have the wheelbase of a ford excursion, so maybe your mirror doesn't work but I'll stick to my truck tires.

I think the "truck tire" category is also applicable because how many "sports cars" have near our size tire in width and diameter? How many trucks share our tire's dimensions?

It might not walk like a duck but it wears the ducks shoes pretty well!

[joseph]

The Toyo site has to errors: http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/product_spec.asp?lpid=35&name=Proxes%20S/T%99&category=lgt
According to them the 255-55/18 have a 29" diameter, but when I measured mine it was 28.50, actually cloer to 28 1/3, what gives?

[joseph]

Well, I looked at different sizes, and I'm happy with my choice, 255 "suv" tires provide me with good load ratings (for towing and supporting our heavy cars), M&S rating (for the occasional drive in light snow I may encounter), price was great, tread depth is great (should evacuate water really well).

[MattRobertson]

Uhh last I checked, we are 2 tons and we DO have the wheelbase of a ford excursion, so maybe your mirror doesn't work but I'll stick to my truck tires. There's nothing wrong with them for the job that they are doing. Light truck tires with a treadwear rating of 400+ are good for endurance and normal driving. They are just not a performance tire and will not serve you well if you try to use them in that category. Thats why DCX puts only RS-A's and F1's on SRT's. If you don't drive the car hard you don't need them.

Oddly enough I wore out the Toyos almost as fast as I did the Conti's. The RS-A's stick hard and, even though they are 260 treadwear they seem to be wearing better. Who'd a thunk it.

I liked the toyos. They were a good tire except for their rain performance. On dry ground you could slam on the brakes and corner hard and the car would stick, where doing the same thing with Conti's yielded... entirely different results. They certainly did better in the snow than the RS-A's despite those tires' all-season rating. If they have somehow fixed that wet weather performance with a compound change or something so much the better. Or maybe its just something about our cars, with all that torque coming out the back.

[joseph]

You say reinforced sidewall affects cornering performance negatively, shouldn't it actually improve it since they would provide less side to side sway and make them more steady?

[MattRobertson]

I don't know the mechanics of it, but the answer from conventional wisdom -- as in me asking around on the same sort of info gathering you are doing now -- and sotp is no. I can say the car seemed to leap and almost anticipate my moves whenI went to the RS-A's. In fairness some of that had to be the decrease in tire width. Maybe some was weight.

Think of it this way. If hard heavy sidewalls were good, why do no high performance tires have them?

Best I can offer.

[joseph]

[QUOTE=MattRobertson;730502]
Think of it this way. If hard heavy sidewalls were good, why do no high performance tires have them?

Probably because 99% of high performance cars don't weigh 4200lbs.

[jaak]

You like Proxes but don't want light truck tires? you want a better rain groove?

Toyo Proxes 4's.

http://www.toyocanada.com/products/tirespicts/Tires_lrg_ProxST.gifLIGHT TRUCK TIRES - PERFORMANCE
PROXES S/T
One of the most researched and technically advanced components you will ever install on your Light Truc k or SUV. Toyo's DSOC II computer simulation technology is "state of the art" and exclusive to Toyo.
Serious Technology: DSOC II (http://www.toyocanada.com/abouttoyo/history/DSOC_rev_EN.asp) technology has resulted in a tire designed specifically to meet or exceed the driving conditions of your SUV or Sport Truck.
Serious Fit: Designed specifically with the unique driving, handling and load requirements of utility vehicles and sport trucks in mind. Bead protector to help minimize damage to expensive alloy wheels.
Serious In All Seasons: An all-season M+S designation. Double V-groove tread pattern for added all weather performance. H and V speed rating for competition driving conditions.
Serious Good Looks: Featuring raised black letters and aggressive sporty sidewall appearance designed to improve the look of any vehicle.
Serious Warranty: "Millennium" warranty package including:
· 5 year workmanship warranty



http://www.toyocanada.com/products/tirespicts/Tires_lrg_PROXES4.jpgPremium Ultra - High PERFORMANCE ALL SEASON TIRE
PROXES 4
Toyo’s "State of the Art" computer technology redefines all-season performance in both handling and appearance

TOYO’s newest offering to the performance enthusiast features the latest thinking in performance design and construction.

Serious Good Looks: (1)A unique unidirectional tread design features an aggressive "double V" appearance. A raised black sidewall complements custom wheel fitments and a vehicle's overall appearance. Aggressive enough for the radical "tuner" yet refined enough offering the versatility of an all season tire for performance sedans or coupes.
http://www.toyocanada.com/products/tirespicts/Proxes4Cutaway.jpg

Serious Performance: The PROXES 4 features both "V" and "Z" speed ratings allowing fitments to compliment the handling characteristics built into today’s performance cars. A UTQG rating of "300" ensures reasonable tread life, while the "double A" for traction and an "A" for temperature ensures no compromise in performance.
Serious Handling: A solid center rib provides directional stability during high speed driving. (9)Increased shoulder rigidity for better cornering and braking control is achieved through a dual block design, which features a unique multiwave sipe to provide enhanced stability. Larger mediate tread blocks also provide increased tread rigidity for improved feel and responsiveness.
Serious in the Wet: A higher pitch angle in the mediate tread blocks accelerates the movement of water from under the tread into four main circumferential grooves. In this way, the water is evacuated more quickly reducing the possibility of aquaplaning. (2)For added wet braking performance, a high level of silica has been mixed into the PROXES 4 tread compound. More sipes for additional "wet" grip.
http://www.toyocanada.com/products/tirespicts/Prox4MultiwaveSipe.jpg
Serious Technology: (9)Innovative "interlocking" multiwave sipes in the shoulder blocks increase tread block rigidity and minimize block deformation under high load from cornering or braking. This improved block stability enhances road feel when braking or cornering. Toyo has also incorporated an innovative new 3D modified block whereby the size and shape of the block changes as the tire wears to help increase stability while minimizing the irregular wear normally associated with high load areas of the tread pattern. (8)Advanced T-Mode design technology using the power of super computers to dynamically simulate tire behavior under a variety of running conditions to ensure superior overall design qualities.
Serious Comfort: (3)Jointless spiral wound nylon cap plies improve overall tire uniformity (7)while a continuous wound single bead wire helps maintain proper rim fit. (4)High tensile steel belts under the tread provide a stable platform and tire footprint shape. (5)A polyester casing to assure a comfortable ride with structural rigidity to provide excellent handling, steering response and durability. (6)Interlocking, multiwave sipes and the 3D modified block design, in combination with other internal technological advancements, help reduce irregular tread wear and tire pattern noise in the tires later life. The addition of a rim flange protector helps minimize damage to expensive wheels.
Serious Warranty: The TOYO PROXES 4 features Toyo’s "Millennium" warranty package (*) including:
· 30 Day trial offer
· 5 year workmanship warranty.
*see dealer for complete details

[joseph]

I saw the 4's but they didn't have in 255/55-18 (I really wanted 255 width)

[jaak]

Ahh, that's a shame.... The S/T's are nice too, and I was considering them after seeing them on Token's ride and talking to him about them..

But when I saw I could go 4's, it was a done deal. I've had other Toyo's in the past and been very happy with the ride, the lack of noise, the traction and the rain performance. (Except when I wore them down, but any tire has that problem.) Unlike GY's I've had, they didn't get noisy as they wore.

[MattRobertson]

The Proxes 4's come in 245/45/20 and 255/45/20 so you can do a direct factory replacement for staggered SRT setup. They were going on my car until the 11th hour when Hemi31 talked me out of them in favor of the RS-A's, which out of 3 sets of tires on this car seem to be wearing the best by a long shot.

[joseph]

The Proxes 4's come in 245/45/20 and 255/45/20 so you can do a direct factory replacement for staggered SRT setup. They were going on my car until the 11th hour when Hemi31 talked me out of them in favor of the RS-A's, which out of 3 sets of tires on this car seem to be wearing the best by a long shot.


When I can afford 20's I may get them, how much do the 4's weight (255)?
are they M&S rated (I like the flexibilty of all type of driving conditions)

BTW: after driving a while with the S/T's I'm happy to report they are extremely quiet at high speed, doing 80, radio off, no noise whatsoever, way better than the LS2 I had on before (not by choice)

[36 chambers]

yep they rock!!!!

[MattRobertson]

When I can afford 20's I may get them, how much do the 4's weight (255)?
are they M&S rated (I like the flexibilty of all type of driving conditions)

Yes they are M&S rated. I hear you with the M&S designation. I've pretty much got to stay out of the snow despite the "all-season" label on the RS-A's. Or maybe its the torque doing it to me :-)

The 255's weigh 32 lbs. The 245's weigh 31. Thats the only downside I can see, but by way of comparison I think only two 20" tires beat that; both made by Goodyear and one (the F1) is darn near a track tire. 32 lbs is pretty much normal tire weight at this size.

[jaak]

Wow, really? I have the RSAs and the Proxes 4's and there's no doubt in my mind which I like better... (No, it's not the RSA's..)

But wear is not something I am too worried about with, three sets of wheels.

[MattRobertson]

Yeah I am really amazed at how the RS-A's are wearing. I have 10k miles on them and the rear registration marks in the center raised tread have fully gone away in the back, with no sign of wear in the front (gotta rotate this weekend). Just amazing compared to how fast I burned thru the Conti's and the Proxes S/T's.

I've never run the Proxes 4's but now that you brought them up again I think I am going with them next rather than the Falkens. I can have a 245 width in front for steering response and the traction rating is AA rather than just A.

I can't understand how tires with a treadwear rating of 260 (RS-A's) can so outlast tires with a treadwear rating of 420 (Proxes S/T's).

[COOKZ32]

I still have to drive the Proxes ST in the rain and on the highway around 75mph to see if they are still quiet at speeds and if they grip in the rain.

They suck in the rain or on wet/damp roads. My pops has those tires on his 300C and I have the the same only in 20's on my RT, they suck in the rain. We just slow down a bit and all is fine, the tires perform really well otherwise, and I like em.

[jaak]

Just to clarify, I do like the RSAs... I was not optimistic about them, but when I ended up driving on them, I couldn't understand why people wouldn't like them. They're nice tires... But I still like the 4's better. :)