KONI Shocks

[rlsedition]

I was at the SEMA show last week and talked at length to a couple of the principles at HPP. Their concern was that no manufacturer was making shocks for the LX cars featured/priced between the OE parts and the KW coil-overs. They encouraged us to create something to fill that marketplace gap.

Well, we will have an SRT-8 Magnum in our shop this month and here are our plans:
1. Develop a non-adjustable FSD shock system for the LX cars that offers balanced ride/handling. These shocks will be best suited to stock ride height cars (or the dropped SRT-8 height). If you want a ride improvement on your SRT-8 or want more body motion control on your R/T or 300c, these are your shocks. Estimated MSRP pricing in the $800-900 range.
2. Develop a rebound-adjustable shock system for the LXs that improves body control, works with lowering springs/larger wheels and is more affordable. Obviously, we may not be able to handle all the latest custom wheel sizes (26, 28, 30, 34"? Oh, come on!). Estimated MSRP in the $700-800 range.

[MAGNUM8R]

Johsh and Jason were actually working at the SEMA show??
I'm impressed!!

[monty1269]

Keep us updated as often as you can!! Since you are new here (post count)...WELCOME!! And I'm sure you will receive LOTS of input!

Like I said...the more often you are here, responding, etc..the more likely you will be well received...hence more products sold! :wink:

[Hemi31]

So the adjustible dampers will be cheaper than the standard dampers?I thought you were going for an in between price?Thats more than the Eibachs by a bunch!

[Vaderwagon]

Well, we will have an SRT-8 Magnum in our shop this month and here are our plans:
1. Develop a non-adjustable FSD shock system for the LX cars that offers balanced ride/handling.
2. Develop a rebound-adjustable shock system for the LXs that improves body control, works with lowering springs/larger wheels and is more affordable.

This was where Koni was when I spoke with one of their guys last March. For such a popular platform, things sure move slowly. I was not going to wait any longer a picked up a set of takeoff SRT8 Bilstein dampers. It sure seems as if Koni would have an application on the shelf for at least the rears and possibly an insert for the front struts. Something that might be closely based on a similar Daimler MB sized platform?

Glad though that it is being worked on.

[Magnum PI]

[quote=rlsedition;577503]I was at the SEMA show last week and talked at length to a couple of the principles at HPP. Their concern was that no manufacturer was making shocks for the LX cars featured/priced between the OE parts and the KW coil-overs. They encouraged us to create something to fill that marketplace gap.


Eibach dampers are made by KW and retail for $600. They also are firm and ride great with their springs. I was waiting for Koni, even emailed them, but now I am an Eibach believer.

[Token]

Don't forget the AWD crowd!!!!!!

[SteveRT]

I would really be interested in the shocks for stock height RT. Though I think $800-$900 is too much.

[Magne300Csium]

I would really be interested in the shocks for stock height RT. Though I think $800-$900 is too much.

I agree. I have used Tokico's on a few different cars and had excellent success (ride vs handling) at a very reasonable price.

Something reasonable for the stock ride-hight LX Cars should cost about $500-600.

I was at SEMA last year and was told by "everybody" that there would be LX shocks on the market by 1Q 2006. Yes, things move very slowly.

[American Muscle]

Sounds promising but still a little over priced.

[MomsR/T]

I have personally talked to an engineer at Koni on the phone..........this is completely different than what he told me on the phone.

BTW.........Koni is top of the line......bottom line no question. The orices posted are a bit steep but thats Koni.

[JESUSFREAK]

Yeah for only 2 hundred more dollars you can buy the KW coilovers.

[rlsedition]

Good discussion, but I want to clear things up a bit.

First, sorry it has taken this long for us to respond to the LXs, but we are a European company and our focus is still the Euro cars. We in the North American office are working hard to modify this direction and cover more Domestics as time goes on, but it does take a while to get this done.

Second, don't take those price ranges too literally. They are MSRPs and our independent distributors usually sell for less; in this case probably about $100 or so less that the MSRPs.

Third, I'm biased, of course, but we are not afraid to compare shock performance with KW, Tokico or any other shock company; in fact we welcome it. KONIs really are the top-of-the-line when you look at ride/handling results, although we are not the least expensive.

Finally, the FSDs really are a different design concept, which is why they cost more than our adjustable Sport offerings. They have a patented, twin valving design which is frequency-sensitive (versus velocity-sensitive). The smaller valve reacts to higher-frequency road disturbances (10-15 Hz), while the main valve controls gross body motions (1-2 Hz). The result is both great ride quality and better motion control. Typically, shocks will trade off ride quality to obtain taut body control, but not FSDs. We see these for the SRT-8s, 300Cs and R/Ts that are daily-driven and don't want a harsh ride.
The catch? Body lowering must be controlled so that the shocks do not ride on the bump rubbers, or the FSDs will read that as a high-frequency disturbance and back off damping control. Our intent is to qualify these with Eibach Pro-Kit springs (roughly a 1.5" drop). We're not sure we can lower the SRT-8s at all; we'll try it.

[Vaderwagon]

We see these for the SRT-8s, 300Cs and R/Ts that are daily-driven and don't want a harsh ride.

I am all for this and hope that Koni comes out with this product soon. That being said I am not opposed to the typical Koni Red manually adjustable shock that they have always produced as long as it is adjustable while on the car. Some of the models they produced had to be removed and adjusted.

[MattRobertson]

Very, very interesting. If you're going to try your FSD's on an R/T with a Pro-Kit on it, be advised those springs settle significantly after a few weeks on these heavy cars. A 1.75" drop is not uncommon. Thats what I got on mine.

On the other hand, if you can say "they're rated for a drop of 1.5" then we can find the springs to do that, somehow.

[rlsedition]

We are planning for both FSDs and Sports. The Sports are rebound-adjustable by the owner. Whether they can be adjusted "on the car" depends on the physical packaging, but we always try for this if at all possible.
One of the attributes of the Sports shocks is that they will work for a wide latitude of body lowering, where the FSDs are limited in that attribute. On the other hand, the FSDs will produce the best ride quality between the two. So take your pick.

For some interesting commentary on FSDs, you could go to www.vortex.com (http://www.vortex.com) (VW/Audi) or www.mini2.com (http://www.mini2.com) (MINI) and search for "FSD".

[MattRobertson]

Whether they can be adjusted "on the car" depends on the physical packagingDo you adjust your units from the top the way that KW V2's adjust? I *think* you do, or at least you did at one time. I came across a Koni adjustor in the boot of a Porsche I was changing a battery in last weekend. If so then we've got that procedure down insofar as access to the shocks is concerned. An extended adjustor stalk would be nice to keep us from having to use hacksaws and rubber tubing to extend them ourselves.

[rlsedition]

I just talked with some our engineering guys, who had a 300C in our shop last year to determine how to set the car up for Sport shocks. What they told me is that the fronts will have the removable adjustment knob for top-of-shock adjustment on the car. The tops of the rears, on the other hand, are buried in shock towers, which makes it difficult to access the shock adjusters, so we were going to utilize our compress-to-adjust design, figuring that most of you are not autocrossing where you would need frequent rebound changes.

Can we make an accessible adjustment window for the rears? Yes, we can, by using a different shock series which has access windows in the shock body. The downside? Extra cost, and quite a bit of it. We'd have to be convinced that the customer need was present, and in large numbers, to add the extra cost.

Do the KW V2 rears have the adjusters accessible on the car? Just curious.

[MattRobertson]

You can adjust the KW V2's easily from the rear on a 300C or a Charger, and you can do the same with a Magnum after a 5-minute modification that most of us with V2's make to be able to get to the adjustment point.

The procedure is detailed here:

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=22861&highlight=variant

On a Magnum, where that same area is behind a body panel, you drill a 1.75" to 2 1/8" hole thru the fender panel using a hole saw with a pilot bit. The top of the shock, and its adjustment port, are about three inches underneath that hole and easily accessible. You can then cover the hole easily with a rubber grommet from Lowe's or Home Depot if you like. Mine are covered already with my Mopar saddlebags.

You could argue that not everyone drills holes in their car, but I would counter-argue that most of the folks blowing this kind of money on a suspension replacement in the first place are going to be mechanically inclined and want to tinker. Those of us with V2's have gotten used to adjusting as we please. I change mine around when either giving my mother a ride in the car, or when I am taking a long trip and want the ride as comfy as I can get it. Especially if I am traveling with passengers.

If I couldn't do that with a product on all four wheels I wouldn't consider it to be an adjustable suspension and I would drop it from consideration if adjustability was what I was looking for. I think you'll find us V2 guys are now spoiled ... before I had these I wouldn't have played around with it like I do now; mostly because I never realized the utility I gained from being able to do it.

[DannyC]

The Eibach pro kit I got said 1.6" of drop but I also think they may be a little lower. I figured it was cus I lowered the front but not the back and weight shifted some.

I'm old school and like the front lower than the back and I put a hitch on the back for pulling a motorcycle trailor and didn't want it any lower back there.

[Electrofied]

RLS Glad to see you on the site... It was great speaking with Koni at SEMA... And yes Josh and I did 5 minutes of work per every two hours of gambling. :)

Take care,
E

[Magnum PI]

yep, mine dropped nearly 2" which was not what I was looking for. But it rides great.

[rlsedition]

MattRobertson,

Well, of course we could build our normal top-adjust Sport shocks and suggest you drill holes in the shock towers and cut access doors in your interior. If you guys are OK with that, we could do it that way.
What I was suggesting as an alternative is access on the side of the rear shock bodies, so no holes/access doors would ever have to be cut by the owner, but the cost of the shocks would increase.

My question is, how many of the LX community would really adjust the shocks frequently? Or would you set it like you want it for your body stance and wheels/tires and leave it alone? If you don't adjust the shocks very often, why would adjustment access even be an issue?

[Vaderwagon]

If you don't adjust the shocks very often, why would adjustment access even be an issue?

I tow my CSP Solo Civic with my Magnum so access one way or the other would be great. At least on the rear but I could live with adding an access hole. I am using the Nivomats now and they are great for towing but the rear stance is a little high under non towing conditions.

Thanks for posting on this board. It is great to finally hear from Koni directly.

[rlsedition]

As I said, adjusting the rears from the top of the shocks is KONI's typical design direction, so if you guys are fine with that, so are we. Its the easiest and least-cost solution from our standpoint.

[LowGo]

As I said, adjusting the rears from the top of the shocks is KONI's typical design direction, so if you guys are fine with that, so are we. Its the easiest and least-cost solution from our standpoint.

I would think anyone looking for adjustable damping shocks would have no trouble with making an access hole to adjust them. I know I would have no problem doing that.

Any chance you folks would be offering a solution for us lowered AWD Magnums? (purty please!!!) :wink:

[SteveRT]

I for one would not want to adjust anything. Just would like an improvement at stock height to stop the town car ride over bumps and keep the car from bucking up and down. I can see making acess with the $1500 suspension but with an upgrade in shocks (say $600) I dont want to mess with them. I guess a poll would be a good idea.

[robbyho]

I definitely would like the ability to adjust the shocks and have no problem drilling holes in my car, that's for sure.

I think many have drilled access holes in the rear panels, so if top adjustment is the cheapest, stick with that.

The rear panels in the mag pull away within minutes with just a phillips, so drilling holes isn't neccesary to adjust the shocks at all.

Rob

[MattRobertson]

I guess a poll would be a good idea.Possibly so. I'm sure that Koni knows this market better than I do.

Speaking for myself I went with the V2's rather than the V1's solely to be able to adjust as desired, but initially I wasn't thinking about adjusting for individual drives. I was worried that I might not like the ride and wanted to be able to fiddle with it to get it perfect. Once I realized how easy it was to do, I started adjusting as conditions warranted. Not something I do every day, but again if I go on a long trip on a straight highway those pups are getting dialed down.

Not sure if any of that helps your production decisions...

[Hemi31]

I would think anyone looking for adjustable damping shocks would have no trouble with making an access hole to adjust them. I know I would have no problem doing that.

Any chance you folks would be offering a solution for us lowered AWD Magnums? (purty please!!!) :wink:Yeah,Shock for lowered AWD would be very cool.