The Incredible Project Morpheus Update Thread.

[MagnumFreak]

OK, the people at the shindig know this information so now it is time to update the rest of the world.

At the shindig I announced several important dates. Here they are:

1. September 1, 2006. Field testing of Morpheus begins. I will be starting with Auto-tune for street first then moving on to auto-tune for the drag strip. I will be going to Atlanta's drag strip several times during this timeframe and I will announce dates so anyone who wants to come along is more than welcome.

2. October 11, 2006 I leave for Sacramento and MOFO5

3. October 13, 2006 The first live testing of Morpheus begins. We will be testing the auto tune dyno live via web cast.

4. If all of the testing goes as expected, November 1, 2006 we will begin shipping Morpheus.

That's right, the countdown to launch has begun. I am fully committed to these dates and foresee few obstacles to meeting those deadlines.

Final pricing will not be announced until MOFO5. I have some tentative pricing and need to see if I can reduce it some more. The cost of the cable to connect the car to the laptop is what is holding things up. I am trying to negotiate a better price.

I will be doing several updates each week to keep everyone up to date on where Morpheus stands as far as completion. Look for many screen shots to show up also. And even some video's. I will post links to the project morpheus site so you don't have to wait for this thread to load.

Feel free to post any questions or even any ideas you have for Morpheus in this thread.

Thanks again for all of the support and encouragement. It would have been impossible for this to happen without the support of great people on forums like this one. The wait is nearly over.

[mikespy]

This is gonna b freaking cool!! Good luck and i will be counting the days.:not_worth

[Gameboy]

Will the 3.5L platform be supported?

[67alecto]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


:racing: :rock:

[wbornio]

Magnum Freak -

Who do I write the check to or do you accept Pay Pal!

I will pay you today just to be the first paying customer. As long as it is less than my laptop - I'll be all smiles!

Wayne

[HEMIwoman]

Great news MF...congrats again. I can't wait to see those great trip reports from those plane rides....

[ZMagnum]

Will the 3.5L platform be supported?

Yes, all LX platforms.

[CoolVanilla]

:rock:

[ZMagnum]

Thanks for the update MagnumFreak. I can't wait.

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

Awesome, simply awesome. Will give generously to the fund raising.

Thanks for the Starscan service today. I really appreciate it.

[pigpen]

So you can turn fog lights on correct and also act as a starscan tool?

Hmm seams like my fogs aren't going to be working till Nov ah well.

[LowGo]

Thanks for the update MF! :rock:

[Kamakazie2]

MF .. wow thank you so much for your time and effort. I own an ELMScan5 interface which supports can bus reading.. willi need to purchase a different cable or will it work with the emlscan5?

Thanks again for all of your hard work. Cant wait to purchase it!

[ratman1648]

this is what we HAD to wait to find out???? It's only dates, nothing like "It's finished" or "Price is _____" or screen shots etc......just dates!!!!

J/K at least the release date is sooner:popcorn:

[MooNDoGGie]

Can hardly wait Andrew!

[bmartin9122]

Yes, all LX platforms.

What about the 6.1L???

















kidding.

[ratman1648]

What about the 6.1L???





kidding.

What a tard:doh:

[bmartin9122]

What a tard:doh:

He who lives in.... oh nevermind.

[CoolVanilla]

The Modifications Face Off 5 is official! (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=37056)

[STAGE 3 R/T]

wow wish i could make it! heck hawaii is the only place with out a race track.

[Duke]

I can hardly wait for the results! :popcorn:

[MagnumFreak]

Do you people ever sleep??? LOL! I posted this about 11 last night and I look this morning about 730 and there are 3 pages. LOL!

To answer some of the questions:

1. The elm scan will not work with Morpheus. The drivers that I am using for Morpheus are different.
2. Support for all LX vehicles is being worked on. I know that 5.7 will be finished 3.5's may be a few weeks behind followed quickly by 6.1's. I just depends on how fast the source I have provides the needed information.

[Dano]

You are the Man Andrew ! :rock: :not_worth

[daffin]

/cheer!

That's excellent news! I'd post more, but I must run and mark my calendar now! :)

[formerice]

To quote Jed Clampett: "Whee doggie!":popcorn:

[PowerWagon896]

Will there be provisions for axle ratio changes?

This portion needs to "stand alone" as removing that portion will render the car inoperable. It won't be like Superchips, you won't be able to "return to stock" when going in for service.

[bipto]

Great news MF - thanks for your efforts! :rock:

[Goose]

Thanks for the Flash Andy. Looking forward to Morpheus.

[crhemi]

Big thank you!

[GasGunR]

Will we ba able to get ridn of the damn CELS from our hi-flow cats?

Thanks for all your work!

Don

[MagnumFreak]

Will we ba able to get ridn of the damn CELS from our hi-flow cats?

Thanks for all your work!

Don

If I can find it before the release it will be in there. If not it will be a part of one of the updates soon after the release. I expect a bunch of changes and improvements as we move forward.

Gear ratio changes also falls on this list. The main focus is to get all of the tuning features done. Then I will add in things like gear ratio changes. And I will be sure to make that a permanent change and not revert when you go back to stock.

[GasGunR]

Thanks,

I'm in on this if for no other reason than the air ambulance service cause.

The tuner will just be a bonus:)

Thanks again!

Don

If I can find it before the release it will be in there. If not it will be a part of one of the updates soon after the release. I expect a bunch of changes and improvements as we move forward.

Gear ratio changes also falls on this list. The main focus is to get all of the tuning features done. Then I will add in things like gear ratio changes. And I will be sure to make that a permanent change and not revert when you go back to stock.

[russ244]

Thanks for your time with the starscan yesterday,it was great to see you in person.

[BobCav]

Andy, this is incredible. You are a man of many passions...

[Poco Askew]

Look for my SC Tuner on ebay on Halloween. :wink:

[HERMINIO]

:racing: :banana: :racing: :banana: :racing: :banana: :racing: :banana: :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:

[plcman]

I want to personnally thank you for the work you did to my car at the show. The wiper thing was great on our ride back to Florida. Keep up the good work this is a great cause and we get to play with our cars too boot.

Thanks again
PLCMAN
(Raymond)

[ratman1648]

how will software updates be handled?

[MagnumFreak]

internet connection. The software is configured to look for updates on our site if the computer is connected to the internet. If you are not connected, it will not look or give you an error message.

[Strike]

Can't wait for this!

[MattRobertson]

Just found this thread... "auto tune dyno" perked my ears up. This thing will have a dyno mode? Where it runs while you are on a dyno or where it takes the place of a dyno?

[MagnumFreak]

Just found this thread... "auto tune dyno" perked my ears up. This thing will have a dyno mode? Where it runs while you are on a dyno or where it takes the place of a dyno?

It is for testing on a dyno. I put the three different modes of testing in there to work with most situations. So for me, street test mode would work best since this backwards town doesn't have a dyno or a 1/4 drag strip.

[hemied]

Thanks for the Flash Andy. Looking forward to Morpheus.
Me too Andy! Thanks!


Attention... Everyone sell your Superchips now while you can get a few bucks for it!

[Dookie]

Will it give ME full tuning capabilities, or are you writing several tunes for us to use? Can major modifications, like cams, be tuned with Morpheus? Or is this for bolt ons? Will it have real time data logging? Gear change capabilities is also important to me.

Look forward to the screen shots and updates you will be posting. Do you have your own site yet? What is/will it be?

[ASU_Magnum]

Will it give ME full tuning capabilities, or are you writing several tunes for us to use? Can major modifications, like cams, be tuned with Morpheus? Or is this for bolt ons? Will it have real time data logging? Gear change capabilities is also important to me.

Look forward to the screen shots and updates you will be posting. Do you have your own site yet? What is/will it be?

yes, yes, yes, yes and yes

projectmorpheus.com

[RPMSRT8]

Again, just postin' to get notices when someone post to this thread. Tough to keep up when the topic name changes every day.

[MattRobertson]

Andrew you ought to post a "Morpheus Thread for the Day" so these things don't get too big :-) Lock the previous day's thread at midnight or something. In your spare time of course.

[004Hemi]

will your program be able to support Rams? If it will do you have a timeframe for that or just whenever it comes around? I know this program would be huge over on the Ram side because so many of us are wanting to do so much to ur trucks such as big cams, ported heads, forced induction... the list goes on...

Thanks for your time and I support you 100 percent even if it doesnt support my platform yet...great job!

[chasb]

OK, the people at the shindig know this information so now it is time to update the rest of the world.

At the shindig I announced several important dates. Here they are:

1. September 1, 2006. Field testing of Morpheus begins. I will be starting with Auto-tune for street first then moving on to auto-tune for the drag strip. I will be going to Atlanta's drag strip several times during this timeframe and I will announce dates so anyone who wants to come along is more than welcome.

2. October 11, 2006 I leave for Sacramento and MOFO5

3. October 13, 2006 The first live testing of Morpheus begins. We will be testing the auto tune dyno live via web cast.

4. If all of the testing goes as expected, November 1, 2006 we will begin shipping Morpheus.

That's right, the countdown to launch has begun. I am fully committed to these dates and foresee few obstacles to meeting those deadlines.

Final pricing will not be announced until MOFO5. I have some tentative pricing and need to see if I can reduce it some more. The cost of the cable to connect the car to the laptop is what is holding things up. I am trying to negotiate a better price.

I will be doing several updates each week to keep everyone up to date on where Morpheus stands as far as completion. Look for many screen shots to show up also. And even some video's. I will post links to the project morpheus site so you don't have to wait for this thread to load.

Feel free to post any questions or even any ideas you have for Morpheus in this thread.

Thanks again for all of the support and encouragement. It would have been impossible for this to happen without the support of great people on forums like this one. The wait is nearly over.

You know I can't wait!!!

[LowGo]

Again, just postin' to get notices when someone post to this thread. Tough to keep up when the topic name changes every day.

Just a FYI... in case you didn't know. If you look just above the first post on any thread page, you'll see a "Thread Tools" button. Just click on it and then select "Subscribe To This Thread". This will do the same thing for you as posting a message.

[BUFFpilot]

I'm in - I think you're doing great things!

[quarky42]

internet connection. The software is configured to look for updates on our site if the computer is connected to the internet. If you are not connected, it will not look or give you an error message.

Please include proxy support of some flavor or another. I'd like to be able to update mine from work and try out a tune on the 40 mile ride home. (as an update is fine).

You should consider a "service contract" or other business model. As much as I love free updates for life, I've seen enough other businesses charge for updates that you should consider it. Perhaps free updates for 6 months after buying it then each update costs a nominal fee. ($20 or something.)

Create a reoccurring revenue.

[quarky42]

Or consider: XYZ super special feature...get people to pay for development of features. Prove the system works on the LX platform and then see if there are any investors or other types of folks that will fund development of the next platform you tackle.

[sstevens805]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any guesses as to what kind of improvements this will be able to yield compared to tuners and chips in terms of hp & tq. I understand that its way bigger than just hp or tq so i'm already sold, but just want to see if anyone has an idea for someone like me who's relatively stock, only aftermarket go fast goodies are magnaflow and k&n drop in.

[MagnumFreak]

It is really hard to guess right now. I will know more after testing begins on the 1st of september. For a completely stock rt I would imagine very close to the superchips tune. For even a slightly modified (again this is just a guestimate) even better results. Mainly because the superchips tune cannot adapt to the new hardware. Their tune does not change for new mods.

[sstevens805]

It is really hard to guess right now. I will know more after testing begins on the 1st of september. For a completely stock rt I would imagine very close to the superchips tune. For even a slightly modified (again this is just a guestimate) even better results. Mainly because the superchips tune cannot adapt to the new hardware. Their tune does not change for new mods.

Got ya, thanks for the ridiculously fast response

[pigpen]

Hey MagnumFreak I have quick Q for you, I install a Jet Chip on my car do I have to remove it or can that say in the car?

[MagnumFreak]

Got ya, thanks for the ridiculously fast response

I have fully assimilated with Morpheus. I had anticipated your question.

Here are the answers to the next 5 questions...... JK!!



You can keep your Jet chip but you will most likely not need it. :)

[MattRobertson]

The service contract idea is a good one. I give free upgrades myself on my own software ... mostly. What you are taking on over time is an ever-increasing tech support burden with no additional income. A service contract helps alleviate that. Even if an owner asks only one question a year... if you have 10,000 customers you wind up spending all of your time on tech support (or paying someone else to do it) with zero revenue stream coming from those existing customers. So you wind up with a monthly nut that slowly grows over time with no relief in sight and pissed off people when reality bites and you have to start charging. You can start out charging, but take away a freebie and people hate you.

I would set it up where you have 1 year of free support limited to X incidents. Protect yourself from the idiot who wants to ask 497 questions and be your new best friend... then ignore the charges so long as people don't abuse the privilege or you don't feel put-upon. But keep that option in your hip pocket in case you need it.

Make the renewal charge nominal. Enough to cover your tech support time basically. $50? You don't have to set it in stone for about 9 months after launch. If someone skips a year let them. But if they need support and are out of contract they have to for one year of support. No need to make them back-pay. Some greedy vendors do that and they are shooting themselves in the foot.

I'm sure you thought of this but don't start your support contracts until a given date, announced on the site, so you don't wind up where SC was where people were stuck with non-working products and a refund warranty that was running out.

You've been around the block a few times Andrew, and have probably thought of all this stuff. Can't help myself tho' :-)

[MagnumFreak]

The service contract idea is a good one. I give free upgrades myself on my own software ... mostly. What you are taking on over time is an ever-increasing tech support burden with no additional income. A service contract helps alleviate that. Even if an owner asks only one question a year... if you have 10,000 customers you wind up spending all of your time on tech support (or paying someone else to do it) with zero revenue stream coming from those existing customers. So you wind up with a monthly nut that slowly grows over time with no relief in sight and pissed off people when reality bites and you have to start charging. You can start out charging, but take away a freebie and people hate you.

I would set it up where you have 1 year of free support limited to X incidents. Protect yourself from the idiot who wants to ask 497 questions and be your new best friend... then ignore the charges so long as people don't abuse the privilege or you don't feel put-upon. But keep that option in your hip pocket in case you need it.

Make the renewal charge nominal. Enough to cover your tech support time basically. $50? You don't have to set it in stone for about 9 months after launch. If someone skips a year let them. But if they need support and are out of contract they have to for one year of support. No need to make them back-pay. Some greedy vendors do that and they are shooting themselves in the foot.

I'm sure you thought of this but don't start your support contracts until a given date, announced on the site, so you don't wind up where SC was where people were stuck with non-working products and a refund warranty that was running out.

You've been around the block a few times Andrew, and have probably thought of all this stuff. Can't help myself tho' :-)

Nope not all of it. Can't wait to get together in October and really pick your brains.

[Todd RT]

MF, I am a computer guy, ex net admin, ex programmer & web dev, who happens to have a job selling software. You should definately generate a recurring revenue from support/software updates, at a certain point it becomes a huge % of revenues. People don't mind a nominal fee if it's valuable. Those $$ can help with future R&D and an even better product, every year or so, for those who subscribe.

Just my $.02. Can't wait!!! Let us know when we can preorder!!

[SDMagnumRT]

Protect yourself from the idiot who wants to ask 497 questions and be your new best friend...

But what if I'm that idiot.....:sad:

[EXTREME]

Wow, this is some great news! Can't wait to see it in action!


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[MagnumMatt]

Glad to hear that something is going to work across the LX platform! GL with the drive to the finish MF. I'll be ready to buy as soon as your ready to sell!

[Gwhiz2k]

So who else is thinking of installing a permanent small LCD screen + small formfactor PC in the car for this? Or am I out to lunch? I don't have an EVIC, so having access to more of my car's features would be pretty cool... Of course I'm excited about the tuning stuff too! :rock:

[MattRobertson]

So who else is thinking of installing a permanent small LCD screen + small formfactor PC in the car for this?I've got an old, small laptop with a 10" screen that will be perfect for this. That and a RAM mount and I'm golden.

Not totally permanent though. You can remove the pole for the mount and the laptop if you are not doing the computer-car-geek thing and trying to like go out on a date or something. You lose all of your cool car points if you have your geeky gewgaws taking up the passenger seat :-)

[MooNDoGGie]

MF told me that he will be writing code to run on a portable Windows based tabloid of some sort. Something that runs Windows SE or the equivilent. If this is the case I will be exploring the idea of setting up a small portable on a base somewhere near the shifter that can be monitored while your driving. This way you can turn off your car and flash firmware on the fly. You could have a flash for performance driving, economy flash for mpg on long trips, etc. To me this will give you the best bang for your buck with this software.

[Redfox0099]

are there good cheap items running windows SE?

[Lik2race]

Damn..all this tech talk....laptops, portable Windows based tabloid , etc.
Way beyond my capabilities.
I'll be here with my antique SuperChip Flash Paq ..lol

[MooNDoGGie]

are there good cheap items running windows SE?

I haven't done a whole lot of seaching just yet because I want to find out what specs MF will want the device to be capable of first. I know he said it would need to have a USB port but he didn't go into specifics.

[Slyk Ryk]

You mean Windows CE ???

[ZMagnum]

You mean Windows CE ???

I'm gonna run it on Windows SXT.:pepper:

[MooNDoGGie]

You mean Windows CE ???

Yes, sorry my mistake. I believe thats the OS he was referring to.

[Meathammer]

So who else is thinking of installing a permanent small LCD screen + small formfactor PC in the car for this? Or am I out to lunch? I don't have an EVIC, so having access to more of my car's features would be pretty cool... Of course I'm excited about the tuning stuff too! :rock:

I've always wanted to build a Mini-ITX or Nano-ITX form factor CarPuter. My original intention was to build it for entertainment purposes mainly. I could synch it with my server so I could have my digital music library in my car. I also wanted to use it for GPS as well as watching movies and an FM tuner could be connected. Since Project Morpheus, it could also be used to connect to the car and monitor and tune it. I can never find the money to dedicate to such a project so I can do it the way I want to. Which is an in-dash double din unit with a 7" 16:9 touchscreen. All the parts are available, but not the funds. I could even use my AMD Athlon 64 3000+ I have just sitting around now that there are a few socket 754 Mini-ITX motherboards available.

[MooNDoGGie]

Well thats a very ambitious project for sure. It would be a pretty cool computer to have in the dash. (hey Jaak right up your alley man). I was thinking a little lower down the scale. It could be portable and wireless accessible for internet activity other than Morpheus. It could also play and store mp3's i suppose along with other video type media. The main thing would be to have a decent sized screen for gauges on Morpheus. I really am not even sure what device would be best for this. It has to run a Windows OS that is "net" compliant and I believe it needs a USB port. I guess a touch screen or wand would be a must also.

MF, could you fill in the blanks perhaps?

[Slyk Ryk]

BSOD travelling at 170+ mph:doh:

[sstevens805]

When I was really wanting to build a CarPuter i found the www.mp3car.com Those guys know what they're doing and often times have whole systems for sale. I know that mp3car.com also retails their own carputers in cases that look like amps. That is a really good place to go. The slickest one i've seen was at SEMA this past year. Some korean company had a flipout indash carputer. I want to say the company was infil and the computer was called a t3 or something similar. It was very sick and had a fast boot time. I still want one, but those guys were talking 3500 at the time.

[boggart]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the software.

I may have missed it somewhere in here, but is there an estimate to the purchase price of the software and will it come with everything necessary to attach our laptops to our car assuming the laptop has a standard USB port? (will it be affordable easily, or will I need to start saving money?)

[MooNDoGGie]

BSOD travelling at 170+ mph:doh:

????

[MattRobertson]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the softwareIts either that or no tech support. I'd have to pay it too, but anyone who is in the business knows how it goes. You have a few customers and the questions and problems are manageable. Over time it eats your day alive, and you have no time to actually make any money.

Hell, just this morning my first three hours have been customer support from what was in my inbox. One guy forgot his password and needed it reset (and needed to be handheld thru the automated system that works fine for most everyone else with their brain switched on). Another guy ran the installer on an unsupported platform. A couple of product questions. etc. It adds up and equates to lost income and R&D.

You have to either cut those people off after a certain point or give them the support they need... and that means someone has to pay for it. Either its the vendor who slowly goes belly up from the load or its the customer. You have to pick one and there's nothing you can do to change the equation.


</rant> :-)

[jarrod]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the software.

I may have missed it somewhere in here, but is there an estimate to the purchase price of the software and will it come with everything necessary to attach our laptops to our car assuming the laptop has a standard USB port? (will it be affordable easily, or will I need to start saving money?)

Start saving... Around 695 for the software... around 495 if you donated.....

[boggart]

Guess I'll start saving and hear some reports from SXT owners before I plunk down that kinda dough. Comparably priced to the other alternative, maybe we can get in on a group buy. heh

[jeffisevil]

Would Morpheus be capable of running on a palm or a portable windows based handheld? I ask because I'm one of the rare people out there with out a laptop, but have a Dell Axim PDA.

[daffin]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the software.

Part of the problem here is that development will likely continue after the product ships. I suppose you have to ask yourself, "am I only paying for work that has been done, or am I also paying for work that has yet to be done?" Personally, I see it as the former. If you don't like the idea of a service contract, don't pay for it--just don't expect any updates after a period of time has passed after purchase. Of course, I don't speak for MF, so that is all pure speculation on my part. :)

[quarky42]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the software.

MF needs money to power his passion. Without some sort of tiered pricing system he will not make the kind of money he needs to be able to buy a plane and run it in the long term. I want to see MF succeed here and that means he needs to be able to buy the plane and then afford to run it.

Just because there is a support contract involved doesn't mean you have to buy it or pay for it all the time:

I'm suggesting to MF that he consider a system where:
A> Bug fixes and minor enhancements (tweaks and improvements to existing features) are all free and included.
B> New features or new abilities are module or plugin driven where people can pay for new features as they want them.
C> New upgrades. Major revisions to the entire architecture should cost, but be fair. We are talking about paying for his time, development, R&D, and hopefully enough in the end so he can power that air ambulance.

When you buy a software product it should come with free upgrades for a period of time. Then after that period of time you should pay for upgrades. (I'm not talking about bug fixes here... or enhancements/tweaks to the software that improve performance of your car)

He could also consider creating a full version for laptops and a light version for PDAs. If it is based off of the same code base it may not cost a lot extra to develop but would provide added revenue. Laptop Version X dollars, PDA version X dollars. Laptop and PDA version bundle less than 2 times X dollars.

He could also offer to code features for pay if he wanted to. Say you want some super duper custom tune ability that isn't availble in the current Morpheus. Pony up some money and fund development of it if it is important enough to you.

I've also suggested to him a tiered license structure for home users versus business users.

Home users should only be able to use the product on one car at a time. (Locked by VIN number) Commercial users should be able to use hte product on multiple cars (and there is room for tiered pricing here too from 5 to 10 to unlimited number of cars at a time) For that matter Commercial users coudl buy a "5 pack" of tunes that would let them tune 5 cars for Y dollars. Then after those 5 cars have been tuned, they could buy 5 more.

Home users should be able to tune one car, and "read" data from any compatible car. So you aren't super limited as a home user except you can only tune your car. You can't tune your car and your 10 closest friends cars too. (But you could read their performance parameters and read other settings/info)

Re-occurring proceeds are very important here.

[quarky42]

EDIT: People were focusing on the numbers and missing the point completely. The point is that Morpheus is worth a LOT more than the Flashpaq by virtue of features and abilities. The other point is that there should be a tiered license structure that gives a break to the home users, charges more to CORPORATE users, and provides a residual income. I am NOT saying that MF should charge these exact numbers. I am saying what I *THINK* it is worth to me. I would be willing to pay this and I have just enough money in my account to cover bills and the trailer hitch (I've been wanting it so I can help my mom move lots of stuff.)

In fact since numbers are what people can't seem to get past I'll go ahead and edit the rest of this post. Hope you understand Algebra. It used to be that people understood examples better than formulas. I should have known it would be the other way around here. heh. (that's a joke. lighten up.)


I'm not speaking for MF here either, just hoping he can find a business model that will let him achieve his noble goals!

(THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION, THIS IS NOT REAL)
HOME USERS:
Pay X dollars. They get 1 year all update types, 1 car they can retune unlimited times, read any information from any other compatible car unlimited. (Bug fixes and minor enhancements/tweaks should be free after that year)
Pay between X/5 and X/10 dollars for Upgrades for 1 additional year any time after the first year expires. This gets them all changes/updates. After the year they still get the minor updates and all bug fixes for free no matter what.

During the 1st year and each paid support year Home Users should get access to the priority trouble ticket system. Their priority 1 notch under the commercial guys. Without a support contract (yearly subscription) then they can't get into the priority trouble ticket queue but they can still post requests into a ticket system.

COMMERCIAL USERS THAT RESELL TUNING TO MASS MARKET
Pay X * 1.5 for base commercial software package.
Pay 2/3's * X for tuning each unique vehicle. Retuning a vehicle shouldn't cost extra.
Pay X * 15 (or more) for unlimited tunings
Pay Y (unrelated to X) monthly fee for updates, access to priority trouble ticket system, and any other special things a commercial customer might be interested in and willing to pay for.

Commercial Renewals and upgrade pricing would need to be discussed next, but I'm just laying the foundation for talking about a pricing scheme. I haven't heard anything from MagnumFreak and I assume he is really busy. He may not even want a multi tiered pricing structure... I'm just trying to help here.

Sure ya I'd love to have Morpheus for free... but that isn't realistic. For something this advanced of which there is NOTHING else out there like it, we should be prepaired to support it. If you can't afford a yearly support contract then maybe buy the support contract one year and then skip a year.

[quarky42]

Maybe the numbers are off for Commercial Users... Perhaps a large fee up front to pay for the software and a reasonable per tuning fee, with extra Support cost added as needed. Sorry for the extra posts. I'm trying to keep my thoughts "grouped".

Edit: This product should be targeted to Home and Commercial users. Home users should pay less and be able to tune their car as many times as they want. Home users should not be able to tune their car and everyone else's car under one home license. Commercial users will want to tune lots of vehicles and can pay for it and pass the cost along to the customer.

If you are willing to tune it yourself, then save some money. If you want a business to tune it for you and are willing to pay a "Value Added Reseller" the extra cost to have them do it, that's cool too.

The numbers above are not serious or written down anywhere except as a concept to point out a pattern or trend.

[ratman1648]

C'Mon....We want screen shots!!!

[MagnumMatt]

Had a few extra bucks after paying bills. Sent it to the cause! Cant wait!!

[bipto]

wow and the Morpheus tuner was SUPPOSED to be less than a SC tuner...
I don't recall that ever being said. And considering that this product is able to do far more than the current SC offering, I don't have any problem with it costing more...

[Husker]

I think everyone needs to be very careful throwing numbers around with out asking Andy. Some of the numbers shown WILL turn folks off right away as they are simply to high....just my 2 cents

[bipto]

I think everyone needs to be very careful throwing numbers around with out asking Andy. Some of the numbers shown WILL turn folks off right away as they are simply to high....just my 2 cents
The numbers were published by Andrew himself as "ballpark" figures, IIRC...

[Husker]

The numbers were published by Andrew himself as "ballpark" figures, IIRC...

These numbers::

I'm not speaking for MF here either, just hoping he can find a business model that will let him achieve his noble goals!

(THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION, THIS IS NOT REAL)
Home User:
$695 1 year feature updates, 1 car tuned at a time, read any information from any compatible car unlimited. (Bug fixes and enhancements/tweaks should be free)
$150 for Upgrade to new version which includes 1 year of feature updates. Major changes and new features (Maybe $200 instead of $150)

Commercial Users: (renewable / purchasable increments)
$1200 for 2 cars tuned
$3000 for 5 cars tuned
$4750 for 10 cars tuned
$10000 for unlimited tunings at the current version. (Plus a reasonable monthly fee perhaps for added support this level of user would need?)

[bipto]

Oh, THOSE numbers... :wink:

Agreed.

[Gwhiz2k]

????

BSOD = Blue Screen Of Death. It's the screen you see when Windows crashes. It also makes a great screensaver... :rock:

[boggart]

Since I've had so many responses to my "stop telling MF to charge us for updates". If the software costs $600 there's no way I'll pay additional for software updates, not for the first 3 years anyway.

IMHO as a potential customer, the figures that are being thrown around are too high for a software package. I know some of you have money rolling out of your @sses around here but most of us don't, and that figure is too high for the common man like myself.

[ratman1648]

I don't recall that ever being said. And considering that this product is able to do far more than the current SC offering, I don't have any problem with it costing more...
Here is a reminder....second post on page
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=34540&page=3

[ratman1648]

Since I've had so many responses to my "stop telling MF to charge us for updates". If the software costs $600 there's no way I'll pay additional for software updates, not for the first 3 years anyway.

IMHO as a potential customer, the figures that are being thrown around are too high for a software package. I know most of you have money rolling out of your @sses around here but most of us don't, and that figure is too high for the common man like myself.
As I was saying

[bipto]

Here is a reminder....second post on page
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=34540&page=3
LOL - well alrighty then - guess I'll back-pedal on the first part of that statement... :mrgreen:

But I'll still stand on the second... :wink:

[bipto]

I'm not trivializing the cost - merely stating that IMO, a tuning product with a feature set that Morpheus boasts is worth that price. And no, I don't have $$ rolling out my @ss. 'Nuff said on this...

[RobAGD]

Look at how much a tuner package is for other cars is, the 500-700 range is fair.

Heck the Super Chip which I think will be very very weak vs Morpheus retails for what $595 ? How many of use early adopters of the SC are going to take a BATH when Morpheus comes out ?

I am sure Andrew has thought a lot of this out in his head, now he is focused on getting it to the testing level. A Major reason I want to be at the GMFO5 in October.

Let andrew work, dont worry about the details that are his to worry about, if he has a question about something I am sure he will call / PM / post up his questions when he wants to hear from us :)

-Robert

[boggart]

Rob, I love ya man, but I think as customers we have the right to at least say what we think is too high of a price, especially when others are posting that price saying "I think you should charge this much".

And the SC's from what I can tell were about $250-$300 when everyone bought them on the GB were they not?

[Rev.Hammer]

what an item is costs is not what an Item is worth. No matter if it was 10$ a copy...there will always be someone that thinks it costs too much...

[MattRobertson]

And the SC's from what I can tell were about $250-$300 when everyone bought them on the GB were they not?You're off by about $100 on one of the prices you list :-)

[IDD]

A: How much projected money is needed to fund the air ambulance?

B: What are the projected number of sales?

A/B=C

C: C equals cost

What am I missing?

[Rev.Hammer]

All of this is unknown at this time...There really isnt even a product in existence yet...

[Todd RT]

On a personal level I Hate the guys who are suggesting an annual renewable service contract on the software.

I may have missed it somewhere in here, but is there an estimate to the purchase price of the software and will it come with everything necessary to attach our laptops to our car assuming the laptop has a standard USB port? (will it be affordable easily, or will I need to start saving money?)

No need to get personal man!! C'mon! Hate is a pretty strong word. Especially for a discussion about a product that hasn't been released yet.

If you don't believe in software updates... don't buy them! Personally, I don't like service contracts, extended warranties on appliances or electronics, but software updates are kinda like gettin' a brand new car each year! It is still the same car you purchased, just all the problems are fixed, you get all the new bells and whistles every year that were not available when you originally purchased. See my analogy??

[Cam]

You know, everyone has a valid point regarding the cost of the unit. It would be an ideal world if the possibility of producing and marketing a unit such as this could be accomplished for 2-3 hundred bucks including free updates and tech support.


But, the reality of being able to provide such a service, just ain't gonna happen.

Mattrobertson's statements are extremely valid. It just cannot happen without some type of additional costs incurred.

Also bare in mind that there are many other factors involved with setting the final purchase price. These reach far beyond just RnD, set-up costs, marketing and distribution.

I'm not trying to put words in Andy's mouth. But, just the Product Liability insurance will be huge. And of course this will be a reoccurring cost regardless of the amount of units sold and will depending on how the accord is written may increase proportional to the amount of units released. This cost will not go away.

Copy write, Patent fee's and attorneys will present another upfront expense that doesn't come cheap.

Marketing will be a nice tidy sum. Remember, this forum is a fantastic place with many great members and I'm certain we as a group will support MF to the end in his endeavors. But lets be realistic here: What do we have here, 7K members.............OK.........not bad......................but, what do we really have 2,3,4 hundred that are truly active, maybe another 1-2k that my pony up and purchase a tuner.

Guys and gals that ain't ****.

Our pal Andy doesn't have funding such as a company like Hypertech or Super Chips has. There will be a higher cost involved with producing this unit/software and if it should change, keep some of this in mind before you get to excited about it.

I have no doubts that this product will be superior to anything else offered and will be worth every dime we all spend on it.

OK, sorry about the rant. I've been in business along time, it don't come cheap sometimes. :blah:

[boggart]

No need to get personal man!! C'mon! Hate is a pretty strong word. Especially for a discussion about a product that hasn't been released yet.

Of course you are right, I apologize.

[desquirrel]

A: How much projected money is needed to fund the air ambulance?

B: What are the projected number of sales?

A/B=C

C: C equals cost

What am I missing?

Maybe

if C=$5000 B could very well be 1

and if C=$200 B could be 1000.

[Super T]

Cam - right on.

I wasn't aware the product was that 'serious' though, for lack of a better word. I assumed it'd be a zero-liability sale - "here, here's some software, now go have fun, hope you don't blow your car up" kinda thing. I've been my sharing my excitement over Morpheus with anybody that'll listen... I should hope he could sell upwards of 3,000 copies/licenses/packages within the first year without shelling out microsoft's advertising budget. I'm in for one, that's a start!

[MagnumFreak]

A= about $75,000 a month. Aircraft, insurance, maintenance and daily operating expenses. Aviation fuel is running a little less than 5 bucks a gallon right now ($4.80 last time I looked), and airplanes don't have MDS. LOL!

B= very unknown. There are a number of limiting factors for this. 1. the number of cars sold. 2. the number of people interested in modding their car. and 3. The number of people who have or are willing to use their laptop to tune their car. There are a number of people who are just uncomfortable with the level of interactivity that is connected with a program like Morpheus. They would just prefer to "plug and play" so to speak. These are, in most cases, peoples daily drivers.

[ratman1648]

C'mon MF we want screenshots!!!

[IDD]

A= about $75,000 a month. Aircraft, insurance, maintenance and daily operating expenses. Aviation fuel is running a little less than 5 bucks a gallon right now ($4.80 last time I looked), and airplanes don't have MDS. LOL!

B= very unknown. There are a number of limiting factors for this. 1. the number of cars sold. 2. the number of people interested in modding their car. and 3. The number of people who have or are willing to use their laptop to tune their car. There are a number of people who are just uncomfortable with the level of interactivity that is connected with a program like Morpheus. They would just prefer to "plug and play" so to speak. These are, in most cases, peoples daily drivers.


So, if Morpheus is sold to 2000 people at $500, that's $1,000,000.

Enough to run the Air Ambulance for a year.

Hope no one wrecks while messing with their real time info on their laptop, or installs the software incorrectly and seeks a legal judgement.

Miles to go before you sleep.

Good Luck!

[Husker]

So, if Morpheus is sold to 2000 people at $500, that's $1,000,000.

Enough to run the Air Ambulance for a year.

Hope no one wrecks while messing with their real time info on their laptop, or installs the software incorrectly and seeks a legal judgement.

Miles to go before you sleep.

Good Luck!

well there is really two ways to look at this.. one is yours and another is sell it for $375 and sell 5000 copies...you have to make sure you don't out price yourself from the market either. If you jst want to sell to a select few on this brd then fine, but if you want to sell it to "joe sixpack" then you have to make it affordable.....

Remember WalMart sells for a low cost, but when everyone buys there the volume makes up for the lower price....

[daffin]

So, if Morpheus is sold to 2000 people at $500, that's $1,000,000.

Enough to run the Air Ambulance for a year.

Hope no one wrecks while messing with their real time info on their laptop, or installs the software incorrectly and seeks a legal judgement.

Miles to go before you sleep.

Good Luck!

Show me a EULA that doesn't completely free a software company of any liability related to using their product and I'll show you some beachfront property in Tennessee! :)

[67alecto]

I think I missed something - Morpheus is going to require that we have our own computer (either laptop or PDA) in order to interface with our car?

[wbornio]

I think I missed something - Morpheus is going to require that we have our own computer (either laptop or PDA) in order to interface with our car?

www.projectmorpheus.net (http://www.projectmorpheus.net)

Check it out... it'll clear everything up. Basically - yeah - you'll need a laptop with Windows and USB.

And a new 3 pack of underwear.

I know I'm going to $hit myself when I get control of my HEMI. Maybe MFcan arrange a group buy with fruit-o-da-loom!

[67alecto]

www.projectmorpheus.net (http://www.projectmorpheus.net)

Check it out... it'll clear everything up. Basically - yeah - you'll need a laptop with Windows and USB.



Yeah, I've read that. I still don't see anywhere that says you have to have a laptop.

I'm not disputing that that's going to be the case, I just don't see it anywhere. I've been out of the loop the last couple of days, and catching up in this thread is where I first saw people talking about PDAs and laptops.

So, to be realistic. I've been holding off from a SuperChips because Morpheus has been in the works for awhile.

I don't have a laptop. I don't plan on getting a laptop.

Am I just out of luck unless I drag my computer to my garage?

[IDD]

well there is really two ways to look at this.. one is yours and another is sell it for $375 and sell 5000 copies...you have to make sure you don't out price yourself from the market either. If you jst want to sell to a select few on this brd then fine, but if you want to sell it to "joe sixpack" then you have to make it affordable.....

Remember WalMart sells for a low cost, but when everyone buys there the volume makes up for the lower price....


WalMart sells something for everyone. Morpheus, however, will appeal to a very very small market . "Joe sixpack" might not be the target market.

Try calling Porsche and telling them they could sell a whole lot more cars if they halved their prices, then get back to me. LOL

Why not go all the way with your reasoning and sell 100,000 units at $10.00.

p.s. There are many ways to look at this. I just offered one. Don't be so linear. :)

[IDD]

Show me a EULA that doesn't completely free a software company of any liability related to using their product and I'll show you some beachfront property in Tennessee! :)


That'll stop those pesky lawyers .....frivolous or not.

By the way, beachfront property in Tenn. is beautiful.......oceanfront property in Tenn. is something all together different......I'm sorry what was your point again?

:thumbs_u:

[Jay Carnes]

I can't wait to see the results. This is AWESOME to see you going forward SO STRONG with this project with dates & times & events to test all LX cars.

I'd shake your hand If I could.

[Husker]

WalMart sells something for everyone. Morpheus, however, will appeal to a very very small market . "Joe sixpack" might not be the target market.

Try calling Porsche and telling them they could sell a whole lot more cars if they halved their prices, then get back to me. LOL

Why not go all the way with your reasoning and sell 100,000 units at $10.00.

p.s. There are many ways to look at this. I just offered one. Don't be so linear. :)

Why be so elite-est if you will..why not appeal to Joe SixPack???.. How many LX cars are been sold? A crap load and why not go after all you can?? It's not just the price but also the partnerships you can create, but if the price is too high..well then it makes it hard to partner as the partner has to make a buck as well..I never said anything about ten dollars, that is plain foolish. The point is this software does alot moe then just appeal to guys who want to go fast. it needs to be sold as an add-on.

I have been in the High tech industry since the mid eighties and have seen many attempts to sell hardware/software. The best approach to have is to try to appeall to the biggest market possible, create diverse revenue streams and have options... This stuff is not just black and white...it must be MANY shades of gray. I make a very good living, but I also will find it hard to pay some of the prices listed...common sense is a very important thing when developing a business plan....

[Charg-um@BMC Performance]

From what I know by talking with Andrew and reading up on the threads, I meaning me, would pay 600-700 for this tuner easy. I dont have a laptop. I will get one. Used or new, in the 400 dollar range. Total 1000 dollars, and I think it will be worth every penny.

Also, I was a donor. So I will get the price break.
Even if I didn't, still worth it.

Just my .02

[Jay Carnes]

Im a 2x donor & will never second guess why I did it.

[quarky42]

I think everyone needs to be very careful throwing numbers around with out asking Andy. Some of the numbers shown WILL turn folks off right away as they are simply to high....just my 2 cents

Uhm... Anyone that can't see the part in BIG CAPITOL LETTERS and decides not to buy a Morpheus should stay in the Matrix and feed the machines! Seriously. Customers that can't read the BIG STUFF in CAPITOL LETTERS cause lots of problems for developers and support. They are the ones that screw things up and expect everyone else to fix it for them before it broke.

I am NOT calling you or anyone here that Husker... I'm just saying that if there is someone that gets turned off by numbers that are only a suggestion or example are going to be very clueless indeed.

[MooNDoGGie]

Why don't you guys let Andrew market his own product. You make it sound like he is an idiot! He is not. This has been in his capable hands from the beginning. So I don't think he needs your intervention!

Hands off! Let Andrew be Andrew!

[quarky42]

B= very unknown. There are a number of limiting factors for this. 1. the number of cars sold. 2. the number of people interested in modding their car. and 3. The number of people who have or are willing to use their laptop to tune their car. There are a number of people who are just uncomfortable with the level of interactivity that is connected with a program like Morpheus. They would just prefer to "plug and play" so to speak. These are, in most cases, peoples daily drivers.
You can't have a sales only marketing strategy. (Yes people, I'd love it if Morpheus was free...but it doesn't make sense in the real world of software development when your market is limited! If he sells too cheap, he will sell to all the people that will buy, make a significant amount of money and then the money will slow to a trickle. Then he won't be able to afford to make more of the program. Remember MicroShaft perfected the planned obscelecense. That is a large part of how they got so big and profitable.) Profit isn't the main point here, but since the money goes to a great cause it is very important still.

Sales only marketing: You run the high risk of saturating the market in the short term and screwing yourself in the long run. I want to see this project turn into a long term well-funded thingymajiggy!

Edit: I stand corrected on where he said it would be cheaper. Thanks for the link. It is hard to gauge price before an item is ready to ship. Too many variables.

[Husker]

Clueless?? Pal who are you trying to market to??? Goodness, this product is desined to be a fund raiser if you will for the Charity... So if you price it out of the market no one will buy it...If Andy can make this product intuitive enough it should be rather simple to understand for most folks. The power users will just have to RTFM... Let's just not get to run away with what everyone thinks is the "way" to do this... Let Andy write and sell his business plan.....

[quarky42]

Since I've had so many responses to my "stop telling MF to charge us for updates". If the software costs $600 there's no way I'll pay additional for software updates, not for the first 3 years anyway.

IMHO as a potential customer, the figures that are being thrown around are too high for a software package. I know some of you have money rolling out of your @sses around here but most of us don't, and that figure is too high for the common man like myself.

I don't have lots of money, but for a good cause and a GREAT product I am willing to pay more. I paid $350 for a flashpaq. For something that does 100 times what the flashpaq does and allows custom tuning out of the box I am willing to pay extra.

I am also trying to find a way for MagnumFreak to succeed here. I know from my own business experiences (15 years) that you need to price yourself properly and focus on reoccuring income. One time customers are useless. Why do you think the Flashpaq folks are going to offer custom tunes? Not out of the kindness of their hearts...but because it is a cash cow getting someone who has bought from you to buy something again (even if it is cheaper)

These numbers aren't set in stone. Suggest your own pricing scheme and tell us how it would work better rather than flinging poo at other people's ideas. Contribute. Show me a way that MagnumFreak can make money and continue to make money after the market has saturated. Show me how he can make money on MAJOR "updates" MAJOR Updates require a major amount of work. You expect that work to come free or to be included in the cost of the project to begin with? Impossible. It would cost too much. Spread it out over time.

[Husker]

Why don't you guys let Andrew market his own product. You make it sound like he is an idiot! He is not. This has been in his capable hands from the beginning. So I don't think he needs your intervention!

Hands off! Let Andrew be Andrew!

You beat me too it...this is the same thing I am saying....goodness..:i2:

I think if he ASKS you help then help..otherwise let it go

[quarky42]

Andrew can do what ever he wants. These are just ideas. Quit jumping on me for trying to help. Just because I may be "off" on the amounts doesn't mean I don't have a valid point.

I think you underestimate the true value of this product.

The price of any given product is somewhere in between what everyone else thinks it is worth and what the developer thinks it is worth.

This product does WAY more than the flashpaq could ever do if Andrew does everything he says he will. I have no reason to not believe him. So if Morpheus does 100 times more than a flashpaq and costs WAY less than that 35,000...it's a deal.

I seriously believe people are underestimating the value here. You'll spend $350+ on a flashpaq that doesn't do anything compared to Morpheus but you won't spend twice that on something hardcore that does way more?

[quarky42]

well there is really two ways to look at this.. one is yours and another is sell it for $375 and sell 5000 copies...you have to make sure you don't out price yourself from the market either. If you jst want to sell to a select few on this brd then fine, but if you want to sell it to "joe sixpack" then you have to make it affordable.....

Remember WalMart sells for a low cost, but when everyone buys there the volume makes up for the lower price....

Almost everyone shops at Walmart. (Even people that hate Walmart will shop there sometimes) Do you really believe everyone will buy Morpheus at $375 or $400? And even if they do, do you see how the sales will be great the first year or two and then be horrible after that because of market saturation?

The market for Walmart is big enough that they can be the loss leader on sales and still make it up on volume. Then think about all the other stores that died and they carrried stuff that Walmart won't carry because Wally targets the average people and doesn't care about specialty items as much.

Walmart and MagnumFreak are two way different sellers. Walmart is general and a loss leader where they are willing to lose money on some items just to get you in the door and lose money so they can put other places out of business. Once all the competition is gone, Walmart can charge what ever they want. Ever been in a city where Walmart is all there was and has been like that for a while?

MagnumFreak is making a super high end product with a massive amount of features. He has poured his money and time into the project and gotten help along the way. This is a specialty product. Specialty products cost more.

[BobCav]

Then again, some huge tuner manufacturer could merely buy the license or the patent and Andy could clean up with BIG bucks just for what he's already done! Happens all the time....

[quarky42]

A: How much projected money is needed to fund the air ambulance?

B: What are the projected number of sales?

A/B=C

C: C equals cost

What am I missing?

Good idea of how to look at it. I think it is a little more complicated than that, but the METHOD is very applicable! I'm sure that is how Andrew is looking at it too.

I suggest that A = Air Ambulence Cost + a Living for Andrew if he's going to be working full time between Air Ambulence and Morpheus development. He needs to be able to afford to live, eat, put kids in school (if applicable), pay bills, etc.

B: Projected sales will vary. The market will saturate at some point. Andrew has already talked about expanding the product to more vehicles. There is likely a limit to the number of vehicles he can crack and control. Also, what if DCX decides to sue? He has to be able to afford to handle that possibility. DCX would be wrong to do it, but then again DCX was wrong to fire Ralph Giles and look how long that took for them to fix !!

So one side of many factors is driving B down while Andrew alone must drive B up so that he can sell to as many people as possible. Sure the more sales he can make the cheaper he can sell the product and still succeed.

[Husker]

Well I think I am out of this as the thread has gone a very different way then it started....

I guess just alot of us had different thoughts of this when it was born and to where it may go.

Andy, I would love to read your business plan when you finish it!

Good luck!

[quarky42]

wow and the Morpheus tuner was SUPPOSED to be less than a SC tuner...looks like you are suggesting making it more. Us averge Joes out here can't afford that kind of greenage.

SC Tuner = $300 used or more. If you bought it when it first came out it was at least $350 or more.

You'll pay $350 for something that does a few things, and some of them really badly and is being beta tested on it's paying users. You won't pay more for something that does a TON more?

Some updates should be free and major time consuming updates should cost some money. Superchips is doing this. I just had the brass to suggest that I think MagnumFreak's product is going to be worth A LOT.

That doesn't mean he is going to follow what I say. I don't even believe the numbers are accurate, but they show a pattern/trend/ way of doing business.

Most people pay $50 for Antivirus software every year. OR they buy updates for $30-$40. Sometimes they get a "discount" from the seller. I sell the same Antivirus product to my customers for $25 and it includes a year of updates and is the latest version.

People pay twice what the product is worth when they buy it in a retail store or directly from the Manufacturer. Either way you wind up paying each and every year for updates to a program that only tells you when you are infected by a new virus after the product has gotten the update you paid for. (You can get infected before the update comes out and then find out you have been owned.)

Don't focus on the $ amounts. Focus on the point that software is sold, updates are sold, and the companies that do this make money and support various projects because of it.

[quarky42]

That would be impressive. I wonder where it would leave all of us. If history has taught us anything:

1. Screwed when they kill the project and assimilate all the knoweldge and power into their own product that may not be aimed at us at all.
2. Okay but not supported very well when they take it on and don't understand how to make it fly.
3. Well off if they take it, run with it, and make it work.

Those are 3 very likely possibilities. I would hope for 3 but it is the most rare. Many times when someone is bought out the project gets driven far off course. If there was a way to have it happen as you say and get #3 that would be awesome. No doubt.

Then again, some huge tuner manufacturer could merely buy the license or the patent and Andy could clean up with BIG bucks just for what he's already done! Happens all the time....

[quarky42]

Apparently I have really made a bunch of people mad. I sincerely don't think they took the time to read and understand what I was actually saying. I've tried to add a couple edits that clarify that I am talking about a concept and not necessarily an exact number.

I don't know what the exact number would be. I hope MagnumFreak can figure out what the exact number is that will make his project FLY and FLY FAR/LONG. His dream depends on it.

If Andrew wants me to edit any of my posts I'll be glad to go back in and change it how he sees fit. I'm very dissappointed that "many people" didn't get the point and are willing to start knocking ideas without giving better ideas that still address the need for long term residual income. There are a couple other ideas but most of them are "Make it cheaper" and "don't charge me for updates" even though major upgrades costs money to make.
If we need to take this thread a completely different direction to keep people happy, fine.

[northeastern08]

Why don't you guys let Andrew market his own product. You make it sound like he is an idiot! He is not. This has been in his capable hands from the beginning. So I don't think he needs your intervention!

Hands off! Let Andrew be Andrew!

I agree. MF is extremely capable and is a great guy for doing this. You guys arguing like this doesnt help. This is Andrews baby...Let him run with it. If he needs help, he knows exactly where we are.

[daffin]

That'll stop those pesky lawyers .....frivolous or not.

By the way, beachfront property in Tenn. is beautiful.......oceanfront property in Tenn. is something all together different......I'm sorry what was your point again?

:thumbs_u:

I am immune to your wicked hair-splitting ways. :)

[MagnumMatt]

Um guys dont mean to be rude but is it poisble to limit this threads usage to updates from MF. I keep getting emails and expecting to see updates but instead its just a lot of chat about how to market the product. I by no means intend to try and curb the disscussion just make a new thread for it so this can be for updates from MF.

[MooNDoGGie]

Or use PM so we don't have to keep going back and reading it. Oh and its not you guys. Its you GUY.

[Rev.Hammer]

Y'all, really now. Why all the discussion over the color of the chicken when the egg hasnt even been laid? Hell, y'all, the rooster dont even have a dirty look in his eye, much less spotting the hen!
I bet that there will be plenty to talk about when there is something concrete to talk about.. until there is a defacto item in play, we are getting into arguements over what an elephant looks like to a blind man.
Lets keep all the conjecture reserved for reality.

[quarky42]

I thought it would be useful to hear some other points of view. Instead I get a lot of bashing for explaining a thought/idea. I was looking for new ideas and variations that I hadn't thought of but instead I get dumped on for thinking out loud.

If many of you treated everyone else like this, no one around here would try new mods and tell you about it. I try some new thinking about an idea that came to me and get negativity back insead of a little cooperation and some different points of view.

I am appalled at the negativity being thrown around here for something as simple as an idea. I have nothing else to say on this matter and will leave *YOUR* thread alone. Didn't know this was an elitist group where only the popular ideas were considered.

[MooNDoGGie]

cheeryO

[monty1269]

:blah: blah blah blah...Ya'll quit yer darn squabblin' and wait; just like everyone else. We will ALL be informed when the time is right. I commend him for taking the time to develop this.

...SIGN ME UP!! Where do I place MY order.... It really is simple. If YOU dont want it, then shut up and dont buy it! I'll just wave to you as I fly by you....:racing:

ROck on!! :rock:

[sstevens805]

Lets see if i can t help get us back on track

From what we all know about the Challenger, do you guys think morpheus would be able to work with it? Or would it be difficult to adapt it so that it would work?

[LowGo]

Lets see if i can t help get us back on track

From what we all know about the Challenger, do you guys think morpheus would be able to work with it? Or would it be difficult to adapt it so that it would work?

Oh boy... here we go again... on a product that's not completed and a vehicle that doesn't exist yet! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[boggart]

Alright, last post on this then I'll quit. My thought process is this. In order to maximize sales for Morpheous, and maximize profits for MF at the same time I think it would be a good idea to have different versions.

First, I would consider selling a product that only has the functionality for one model of car enabled. For example, I don't need R/T tweaks, I shouldn't have to pay for them, and MF shouldn't have to provide me with software that will support my car, and one that I may trade for 6 months down the line. I buy the SXT version, if I trade up, or purchase additional LX, then I buy Morpheous for the new Model/Trim package. I would also consider having different levels of the software. For most of us, I imagine, we'll only barely tap the most fundamental functions, or have a specific goal like increasing MPG without sacrificing power, so that could be the standard version. For those that want everything unharnessed and want to be able to tweak everything under the sun, support for major performance mods, etc..., a professional edition. Of couse an upgrade path from standard to professional should be available.

On updates, I realize that a lot of work and support will go into this project, and think it's fair to pay for that. However, it is traditionally expected that new software comes with some support. If you want to charge for live support, that could be an add on, and I'd give the first year of updates included in the purchase price, and charge roughly 18% of the software price for software updates in subsequent years as is the standard in the software world.

I think the key is to maximize sales, not maximize the price.

Those are my thoughts and how I would structure my business plan. I think this would provide a win-win for everyone involved. I think this looks out for the little guy like myself, and the power users, as well as the business.

I'm excited to see the progress of Morpheous and anxiously await the results at MOFO.

Sorry, I didn't intend to be part of a major thread hijack, but figured since I was involved I should more fully explain my thought process in earlier statements.

[RandomAccess]

Andy,

What's the latest? I'm having trouble weeding through this thread...

Michael

[CoolVanilla]

Bad news, I'm afraid: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=38698

Closing thread.