Coilover vs. Air Suspension... pros & cons?

[LowGo]

I've been wanting to lower my AWD Magnum for quite some time. It looks like I now have 2 options. The KW var2 coilovers or an air suspension system.

The KW coilovers, I understand fairly well. However, I'm a total neophyte when it comes to air suspension (I know what they do, but I don't have any experience with them).

As stated, I want to lower my car a bit, but I also want a good, responsive suspension that handles as good as or better than stock. I know the air suspension is quite a bit more expensive than the coilovers, but I do love the "cool" effect! :wink: However, I don't want the "cool" effect if I'm going to sacrifice handling, ride, or reliability. This car is my daily driver.

So, I'm hoping to get some input from you knowledgable folks as to the pros and cons of the 2 systems so I can, hopefully, make an informed (and somewhat intelligent) decision.

[American Muscle]

Saw your post yesterday and thought surely some one will reply with more knowledge than me. I hate to see a post go unanswered. While I do not have the information you want you can ask one of our vendors Universal Air Suspension. They can atleast give you the airbag side if this.
From what I have read Airbags, if done RIGHT, are as reliable as anything on the market.

[Darthvader]

Air suspension has become a lot more sophisticated but I have never driven in a Mag with it so can't really say. I do own AWD and have KW's. The ride is much better than factory and the handling is amazing. I made the right choice by a long shot. I hated the look of the AWD stock height. Now I have to carry a bat to beat off the chicks.:thumbs_u:

[hops23]

I too have KWs on. Here's a link to an air ride thread:
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=24082&page=1&pp=10
The air ride/bags require more modding i.e. space for tanks etc... the link has good pics of set ups. The cost is easily twice if not three times that of coilovers. I agree about the "cool" factor of being slammed.

[Teahead]

Seems like the CONs for air would be:

- lowering/raising changes spring rate

- lose cargo room for the air tank

- expensive as heck

PROs would be:

- instant adjustability

UNKNOWN: ride quality???

[LowGo]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. I guess my main concern is, will I get the same handling characteristics out of air that I will out of coilovers (I love cornering!). If both are fairly equal, then it's just a matter of deciding if the "cool" aspect of air is worth the money.

(and Darth... don't tell my wife about the "chick" problem!):)

[LowGo]

I too have KWs on. Here's a link to an air ride thread:
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=24082&page=1&pp=10
The air ride/bags require more modding i.e. space for tanks etc... the link has good pics of set ups. The cost is easily twice if not three times that of coilovers. I agree about the "cool" factor of being slammed.

Thanks for the link. I was searching for something like that. I don't know how I missed that one! :roll:

[American Muscle]

Seems like the CONs for air would be:

- lowering/raising changes spring rate

- lose cargo room for the air tank

- expensive as heck

PROs would be:

- instant adjustability

UNKNOWN: ride quality???
I don't think springs remain when bagging, replaces entire suspension. You wouldn't really loose cargo space but that spare would have to go.

[Teahead]

I don't think springs remain when bagging, replaces entire suspension. You wouldn't really loose cargo space but that spare would have to go.

Of course you'd lose the springs, but bags must be measured in stiffness somehow. "Spring rate" is the only thing I know of. Is there a diff. measurement for bags?

[UniversalAirSuspension]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. I guess my main concern is, will I get the same handling characteristics out of air that I will out of coilovers (I love cornering!). If both are fairly equal, then it's just a matter of deciding if the "cool" aspect of air is worth the money.

(and Darth... don't tell my wife about the "chick" problem!):)

your handling with air suspension will greatly increase over stock. With our kit your body roll is virtually eliminated. You will notice a slightly "stiffer" rider over the stock, however its not as rough of a ride as standard lowering coil.

Also this system can be used with the standard struts, bilstien, and the KW's.

I have had a customer remove his KW v2's inplace of a stock magnum strut and our air suspension with no noticable chance in the handling. (He was all about handling also)

[UniversalAirSuspension]

I don't think springs remain when bagging, replaces entire suspension. You wouldn't really loose cargo space but that spare would have to go.

That is correct you are replacing the springs with air springs. You can either put the tanks into the spare tire well or on top of your spare tire well cover.

[UniversalAirSuspension]

Of course you'd lose the springs, but bags must be measured in stiffness somehow. "Spring rate" is the only thing I know of. Is there a diff. measurement for bags?

With air bags your "spring rate" is determined by the amount of air pressure inside of your bags.

[LowGo]

your handling with air suspension will greatly increase over stock. With our kit your body roll is virtually eliminated. You will notice a slightly "stiffer" rider over the stock, however its not as rough of a ride as standard lowering coil.

Also this system can be used with the standard struts, bilstien, and the KW's.

I have had a customer remove his KW v2's inplace of a stock magnum strut and our air suspension with no noticable chance in the handling. (He was all about handling also)

Thanks for the info. I'm working on the "budgeting" and "how am I gonna present this to the wife" issues now! :wink:

[createdbyone]

honestly, you will get a better ride out of airsuspension with the added benefit of raising your car for large holes/speedbumps. And the cool effect!!!!

[SICKO]

Okay , Let's Talk About It. First Thank's Zach For The Shout Out. I Had All The Lowering System's That Are Out Today ( Lo Spring's , Coilover's , Airbag...) And My Answer Is Air...And This Is Why. I'm A Biggggg Handling Freak And I Did Not Lose Any Of It By Bagging It. Also I Drove My Vehical Very Low With The K2 And I Could Not Go Up Many Drive Way's. The Best Thing Is To Find Out What You Are Really Looking For. But Any Way You Go It's Going To Make Your Mag , 300 Or Charger You Much Better !!!!!!!!!!!!

[LowGo]

An air suspension makes the most sense to me. I like the idea of being able to set the height differently if needed for different circumstances. My biggest concern (knowing nothing about air suspensions) was whether or not they were going to give me the handling I want. From everything I've read so far, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Thanks for all the info.

[Davesatdoasisbar]

With the air bags is there any concern about winter driving or salt related problems in the future?

[Poco Askew]

I'm also ignorant of the new air ride systems. I'd hate to lose the spare tire (been there/done that - HATE it), or lose the rear cargo space. What about noise? How do the compressors sound and how often do they typically cycle on and off? The old systems I used to see seemed rough and a little bouncy - sort of like the cheap lowering jobs I see on the rice wagons.

[Nightshade]

What about durability of an air-ride system? How do they hold up to extremes in temperature? Do they work well in the cold? do they freeze up and crack?

[the hurse]

man where is "Im Butweet Dammit"? isnt his ride bagged?

[UniversalAirSuspension]

Okay , Let's Talk About It. First Thank's Zach For The Shout Out. I Had All The Lowering System's That Are Out Today ( Lo Spring's , Coilover's , Airbag...) And My Answer Is Air...And This Is Why. I'm A Biggggg Handling Freak And I Did Not Lose Any Of It By Bagging It. Also I Drove My Vehical Very Low With The K2 And I Could Not Go Up Many Drive Way's. The Best Thing Is To Find Out What You Are Really Looking For. But Any Way You Go It's Going To Make Your Mag , 300 Or Charger You Much Better !!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol, Your ears must have been ringing!

[Rev.Hammer]

What about durability of an air-ride system? How do they hold up to extremes in temperature? Do they work well in the cold? do they freeze up and crack?

You are more likely to suffer a broken pressure feed hose than an airbag.
The bags are super duty and RARELY let go on you.
Look at the rear suspension of a SemiTractor...they use airbags!!

[UniversalAirSuspension]

With the air bags is there any concern about winter driving or salt related problems in the future?

With the components there isn't an issue with the weather and salt. Now if it was used under extreme cold the life may be shorten however we have tested the bags for over 100k and still running. The bags are made from a synthetic material so they won't dry rot over time like tire's do.

We give a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty on all of our bags that we manufacture. If you need to replace a bag after that time the fronts are 189 each and the rear are 79 each.

There is one problem however that you may experience with the extreme cold is water freezing inside the valves. If you are up in the higher parts of Canada i always recommend installing the valves and compressors inside the vehicle or the engine compartment and running water traps to remove the water. That way if water does build up inside the valves (i.e. forget to drain water trap) they will easily thaw out when you start up the vehicle and warm it up before the drive they would thaw. Now this is in rare cases when there is no water trap or its full for a very long time with out draining.

[UniversalAirSuspension]

I'm also ignorant of the new air ride systems. I'd hate to lose the spare tire (been there/done that - HATE it), or lose the rear cargo space. What about noise? How do the compressors sound and how often do they typically cycle on and off? The old systems I used to see seemed rough and a little bouncy - sort of like the cheap lowering jobs I see on the rice wagons.

The air tank is 8" diameter 24" long so you will have to sacrifice some space. Depending on how you mount the compressors will determine how loud they are. If you mount in the spare tire you will hear them alot more pronounced then mounting on the cover. If its in the spare tire well its about as loud as a lifted truck with big tires. Once you lift the car up the compressors will run for about 2 minutes then turn off. The compressors only turn on when you lift the car.

Lol, technology has came along way since those days. The way that our system is designed all the factory components & geometry stays the same except removing the coil springs out for the bags.

[UniversalAirSuspension]

What about durability of an air-ride system? How do they hold up to extremes in temperature? Do they work well in the cold? do they freeze up and crack?

As far as the whole system goes we use the same air line and fittings that the semi's run for their braking system. The compressors are rated for temperatures from -40F - 158F.

If you have alot of water in you system the water can freeze inside the valve causing it to stay closed. With water traps/dryers will greatly help preventing this, However if you do not drain them and they are filled the water will just bypass the filter.

[UniversalAirSuspension]

You are more likely to suffer a broken pressure feed hose than an airbag.
The bags are super duty and RARELY let go on you.
Look at the rear suspension of a SemiTractor...they use airbags!!

The airline is the same line as they run on thier brakes also. Honestly the only "problems" with an air system would be:

Bags Rubbing metal = installation issue
Extreme pressure = nitrogen/CO2, comrpessors will never even come close
Line Melting = Contacting exaust manifold
Line blow out of fittings = Cheap fittings used our's do not come out

Also the way that a standard semi bag is designed it will actually wear out faster because its rolling on its self were as a bellow just compresses and returns.

An air suspension system can be very reliable as long as you use good quality components and install them properly. If you throw together a system it will have various different effects. But a system is only as strong as its weakest link (i.e. cheap fittings)

[Poco Askew]

man where is "Im Butweet Dammit"? isnt his ride bagged?
Dunno where he is, but, "Yes." His Mag is riding on air. BW seems to post later (probably has a job...or life...or something)

[SICKO]

Lol, Your ears must have been ringing! Yeah Just A Bit.... But To All Out There Uni Air Is The Way To Go , Been There Done That And I'm Very Happy With Mine. Also Zach Will Take Care Of You If You Choose To Run With It. If You Can See Zach He Will Let You Drive His 300 Or Zach CAll Me I'll Take Anyone In My Magnum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[srt8]

Zack's been very helpful in making up my mind with Coilover vs. Air Suspension. I dropped my ride of this morning for my bag's.

This weekend I'll be testing them at Willow Springs in CA.

[smoove7410]

It is true bags don't cost a lot to replace, but your problem would be valves as stated. I had parker valves on my truck back in the day and was over 800 to replace them. Totally agree about the water trap no matter where you live. I live in LA and the trap will come in handy. Once you get water in your system, you are screwed so take the precautions at the beginning.:wink:

[srt8]

Hey Zack, Will my system need a trap?

[UniversalAirSuspension]

Hey Zack, Will my system need a trap?

With the parker valves they do require a water trap (water damages them). The parkers are made from a paper type composite material that over time water will cause them to distort and air to leak through them.

The valves that we use have a urethane type material that water/oil will not damage even after years of use.

[srt8]

THanks

[LowGo]

Great info. Thanks everyone!

[06MagnumSRT8]

Ive had air ride on my truck for 8 years or so now, been using parker valves for almost 6 of those years, no water trap, i lived in Rhode Island for 5 years and we had some pretty damn cold winters, valves would freeze up every once in awhile but it really wasnt bad at all, and they were mounted underneath the truck. I think im gonna bag my srt8, just wonder how alignment is affected. Heres a pic of my truck, was a daily driver for years with bags, never had an issue. Things have come a long way in the air suspension world, parts these days are a 1/4 of what they used to be, i remember when valves were $200 each

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/2788/albumpic9jo.jpg

[LowGo]

Ive had air ride on my truck for 8 years or so now, been using parker valves for almost 6 of those years, no water trap, i lived in Rhode Island for 5 years and we had some pretty damn cold winters, valves would freeze up every once in awhile but it really wasnt bad at all, and they were mounted underneath the truck. I think im gonna bag my srt8, just wonder how alignment is affected. Heres a pic of my truck, was a daily driver for years with bags, never had an issue. Things have come a long way in the air suspension world, parts these days are a 1/4 of what they used to be, i remember when valves were $200 each



Wow... you've been digging back through the old threads here! :) It's been almost a year now since I installed my air system. I'm extremely happy with it. Yes, the ride is not as cushy as stock, but the handling is great. I had my alignment checked shortly after having the air installed. It is out a bit, but so far has not affected my tire wear noticably. At the time, there were no after market parts to bring it in. I haven't checked lately to see if that's changed.

[06MagnumSRT8]

haha i just noticed that it was from 2006 not 2007